Boat sinking

[David]

Hi

The BW lads from Calvely were out Sat' afternoon/evening (they got back with the pumps after midnight) raising a boat that had sunk at Wheelock, hooked on the cill, a live aboard they told us, I think the boat was Tobias.

The usual terrible mess, the couple and the dog got into a Travel Lodge that night but no word on how they would fare until the boat was habitable again.

Just a moments inattention can have such dire results.

 

In case anyones wondering why Calvely BW, Shroppie, were over on the Trent and Mersey the answer is BW have made Calvely the HQ base for all bank staff from Llangollan, Trent & Mersey, Shroppie from E/Port to Authurly etc and have moved things like the pumps to the store here. So on Sat' the local "on call" Trent & Mersey men were called out, but they don't have keys or alarm codes for Calvely (although they have to come here to attend weekly meeting job allocation etc) so they had to call out men from the original Calvely gang to take the equipment to them.

Arent we glad the reorganisation to save money is working so well !!!!!!

david

[nigel carton]

It happens!

 

[gralyn]

Wow Bosley Lock 8!. Makes you wonder though with all that lock to be in why stay at the back. my boat drifts forward as soon at the paddles are opened.

[tired old pirate]

Oh God, I have nightmares about my boat looking like that. Poor people

[John Orentas]

Wow Bosley Lock 8!. Makes you wonder though with all that lock to be in why stay at the back. my boat drifts forward as soon at the paddles are opened.

 

 

I'm never afraid to say 'I told you so'.

 

Oh dear this one keeps coming up. The best and simplest method of using locks.

 

Always position your boat, whether going up or down, at the downhill end of the lock within a very few inches of the gate or even lightly touching it, the water surge will not then get behind the boat and you will be guaranteed a gentle vertical passage, usually with hardly any use of the engine at all, and certainly no ropes.

 

Please don't respond by telling me this is rubbish until you have tried it.

[mayalld]

I'm never afraid to say 'I told you so'.

 

Oh dear this one keeps coming up. The best and simplest method of using locks.

 

Always position your boat, whether going up or down, at the downhill end of the lock within a very few inches of the gate or even lightly touching it, the water surge will not then get behind the boat and you will be guaranteed a gentle vertical passage, usually with hardly any use of the engine at all, and certainly no ropes.

 

Please don't respond by telling me this is rubbish until you have tried it.

 

Yes, you posted exactly the same in another thread about going uphill in the Cheshire Locks.

 

It was, and is, rubbish.

 

In general, one should stick to the lower gates, but some locks are the exception to this.

[NB Phoenix]

I'm never afraid to say 'I told you so'.

 

Oh dear this one keeps coming up. The best and simplest method of using locks.

 

Always position your boat, whether going up or down, at the downhill end of the lock within a very few inches of the gate or even lightly touching it, the water surge will not then get behind the boat and you will be guaranteed a gentle vertical passage, usually with hardly any use of the engine at all, and certainly no ropes.

 

Please don't respond by telling me this is rubbish until you have tried it.

 

Have tried it over the last 10+ years.

 

IT WORKS!

 

WOW have I just agreed with John. Sorry mate, taking the mick.

[kawaton]

Have tried it over the last 10+ years.

 

IT WORKS!

 

WOW have I just agreed with John. Sorry mate, taking the mick.

 

I agree with John too...

Even on Heartbreak hill (my "preferred" choice of name), which i have done many times, this still works....just need to be a bit slower letting the water in....which some people are incapable of doing.

[Ewart Hodgson]

When I had a 20ft cruiser, your technique worked every time anywhere.

 

15 years ago, when I changed to a 48-foot ex-working narrow boat, I found that it works on some canals, but on others (eg Shroppie) the boat is drawn violently forward wherever it is, so leaving it ticking over with the fender against the top gate rubbing planks works best. As a single-hander, I prefer having the boat at the 'forward' end of the lock for any direction, because it is very close to me as I work the paddles and I can watch carefully for any hang-ups. I think watching carefully is the most important thing. Poor crew! I think it could happen to any of us with a moment's distraction.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Ewart Hodgson

[mayalld]

When I had a 20ft cruiser, your technique worked every time anywhere.

 

15 years ago, when I changed to a 48-foot ex-working narrow boat, I found that it works on some canals, but on others (eg Shroppie) the boat is drawn violently forward wherever it is, so leaving it ticking over with the fender against the top gate rubbing planks works best.

 

Don't go bringing logic and experience into it.

 

No amount of explaining that John's technique has been tried and found wanting in some locks will shake him from his belief that he is right.

 

I agree with John too...

Even on Heartbreak hill (my "preferred" choice of name), which i have done many times, this still works....just need to be a bit slower letting the water in....which some people are incapable of doing.

 

Yes, being slower with the paddles is always a good idea on fierce locks.

 

Not that you get much choice sometimes with people coming the other way who won't take "no" for an answer.

 

I prefer a technique that is has built in idiot proofing.

[carlt]

Don't go bringing logic and experience into it.

 

No amount of explaining that John's technique has been tried and found wanting in some locks will shake him from his belief that he is right.

[Djuwenda]

 

Laughing my arse off...

[John Orentas]

You have all been looking at a photo of a boat on it's side and hooked up in a lock. If the steerer of that boat had adopted my method (No it is not my method at all it is the logical common sense one) that picture could never have been taken. I note that one or two silly people still maintain that I am wrong. Though I know very well that I will never influence them, if just one or two of you are encouraged to think twice I will settle for that.

Edited June 12, 2007 by John Orentas

[MartinClark]

You have all been looking at a photo of a boat on it's side and hooked up in a lock. If the steerer of that boat had adopted my method (No it is not my method at all it is the logical common sense one) that picture could never have been taken. I note that one or two silly people still maintain that I am wrong. Though I know very well that I will never influence them, if just one or two of you are encouraged to think twice I will settle for that.

Keeping the boat on the bottom gate is sensible advice in many (most?) locks, and it is something I do myself in most cases.

 

However, you have to admit that there are some exceptions, John.

 

Take the Calder and Hebble, for instance. If you come up in a Calder and Hebble lock, keeping the stern on the bottom gate, you will either sink the boat or snap off the tiller when you get stuck under the overhanging paddle platforms. I have seen it happen!

[Hairy-Neil]

I note that one or two silly people still maintain that I am wrong.

 

Every boat is different. There is no one correct way.

 

I have first hand experience of a boat's stem post (no, not the fender, the stem post) hooking up on the bottom gates of a narrow lock and holding it as the water dropped in the lock to the point where the base plate was visible. So keep in the middle I here some say........It was a 71' 6" long ex GUCCC Little Northwich Butty in a Black Country lock, ie a perfect fit.....

 

You won't find me holding at the back of the lock whilst going uphill either. Tickover in forward gear with the fender rubbing up the sill/top gates every time for me. I was shown this by an old boatman (Esme Dowling) as I passed through my first ever lock almost 30 years ago. I've yet to find a better way........Even an unpowered butty I'd hold in this way. I've no experience of plastic boats in narrow locks but guess this might be my only exception to the rule.

[AMModels]

Every boat is different. There is no one correct way.

 

I have first hand experience of a boat's stem post (no, not the fender, the stem post) hooking up on the bottom gates of a narrow lock and holding it as the water dropped in the lock to the point where the base plate was visible. So keep in the middle I here some say........It was a 71' 6" long ex GUCCC Little Northwich Butty in a Black Country lock, ie a perfect fit.....

 

You won't find me holding at the back of the lock whilst going uphill either. Tickover in forward gear with the fender rubbing up the sill/top gates every time for me. I was shown this by an old boatman (Esme Dowling) as I passed through my first ever lock almost 30 years ago. I've yet to find a better way........Even an unpowered butty I'd hold in this way. I've no experience of plastic boats in narrow locks but guess this might be my only exception to the rule.

 

I did it with a town class motor, when she dropped off the gate she shot back into the top gate and dismounted the rudder from the cup. It was however one time only and I was told to go through locks as you say on tickover whether it was something to do with the gate or the boat I dont know but only that once has there been a problem.

 

[anthony]

Im no expert but John makes sence to me.

I have a 19 foot cruiser.

to be safe when unsure i just put it in the middle of the lock and let one side open slowly.

As my boat is fiberglass i dont fancy placing it up against the gate.

[mayalld]

You have all been looking at a photo of a boat on it's side and hooked up in a lock. If the steerer of that boat had adopted my method (No it is not my method at all it is the logical common sense one) that picture could never have been taken. I note that one or two silly people still maintain that I am wrong. Though I know very well that I will never influence them, if just one or two of you are encouraged to think twice I will settle for that.

 

You will doubtless point out just where anybody has suggested that one should descend a lock other than close to the lower gates?

 

No?

 

Would that be because nobody has suggested it?

 

OK, then you must have an amazing theory that explains how riding the top gates when ascending a lock can get you hung up on the cill?

[Machpoint005]

Not disagreeing with John but the great majority of boats are a good bit shorter than the great majority of locks - so work out how much it should leave at each end, and sit nearer the back but not too close to the gate. Then the crew opens the paddles - after a subtle nod from the steerer - and GENTLY! In an unfamiliar lock you don't know what will happen, so assume the worst!

 

Single-handing is a special case, IMHO, and you can't possibly have a general rule. Never forget the third corollary of Nurke's Law: If a system is devised that is only intended to be applied in exceptional circumstances, it will immediately be universally applied!

[anthony]

Not disagreeing with John but the great majority of boats are a good bit shorter than the great majority of locks - so work out how much it should leave at each end, and sit nearer the back but not too close to the gate. Then the crew opens the paddles - after a subtle nod from the steerer - and GENTLY! In an unfamiliar lock you don't know what will happen, so assume the worst!

 

Single-handing is a special case, IMHO, and you can't possibly have a general rule. Never forget the third corollary of Nurke's Law: If a system is devised that is only intended to be applied in exceptional circumstances, it will immediately be universally applied!

so to be safe what do you recommend?

sit near the front gate i dare say?

Edited June 12, 2007 by anthony

[MartinClark]

OK, then you must have an amazing theory that explains how riding the top gates when ascending a lock can get you hung up on the cill?

Not paying attention while riding the top gates when ascending a lock can get you stuck on the Ashton Canal for two days, as happened here.

[Oliver]

We came down Braunston Flight a couple of weeks ago. The first boat we shared locks with managed to get hung up by their front button fender on the downhill lock gate but luckily the weak link gave way quickly.

 

Two locks later and with a different companion in the lock it happened again but this time the weak link on the front button didn't give way until the bow was clear of the water. The boat sure came down with a crash.

 

We'll continue trying to keep the boat in the middle of the lock when going either up or down.

[RichardH]

Take the Calder and Hebble, for instance. If you come up in a Calder and Hebble lock, keeping the stern on the bottom gate, you will either sink the boat or snap off the tiller when you get stuck under the overhanging paddle platforms. I have seen it happen!

 

So have I, worse, it was when we were sharing the lock and they tried to blame us for forcing them under the gate and threatened to call the police.

[honey ryder]

we use the middle of all locks

we are still working out the best method for going up and down with our boat on each individual lock as they are each alittle bit different.

we dont like touching gates because its causes potential damage to the gates and also theres plenty to get hooked up on.

 

I think the best method for doing locks is to pay attention at all times, if theres more than one of you then you need good communication, which includes knowing what signal to give if theres a problem so the paddles can be dropped quickly. taking it slowly is the best way for us.

[Machpoint005]

I think the best method for doing locks is to pay attention at all times, if theres more than one of you then you need good communication, which includes knowing what signal to give if theres a problem so the paddles can be dropped quickly. taking it slowly is the best way for us.

 

Spot on, I'd say!