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Just starting to look......


Tawny75

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We are just starting to look at boats, as we have loved our rentals so much we want our own.

So for starters, what should we be looking for?  We know we want a boat no longer than 50ft.  We know we will not be living aboard and it will be used for holidays. We have a budget in mind of no more than £35k, we don't mind some work but not a whole project boat if you see what I mean.

I have plucked a boat from one of the selling sites and would appreciate some pointers.

http://www.blackthornlakemarina.co.uk/boatsales/boatid/70/boatname/Lady Jane/boatsales/Narrowboat.php

 

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Welcome to CWDF, Tawny.

The boat which you have "plucked" is a Springer, an example of the first mass-produced narrowboats ever built. The last ones are now over 20 years old (this one is over 30 years old) but most seem to be still afloat. It's half your budget, so you could do much better. That said, it looks sound, though externally scruffy; beware of the word "project" used in a seller's description: this is brokerese for "work needs doing" which could be anything from a coat of paint to hull welding and a new engine.

I suggest that you go and see this boat (or another, convenient to where you live, which you can pluck from the Apollo Duck Narrowboats web site) and get an idea of how closely the photos and description match the reality. Do not be shy of posting other boats which interest you on here: you will get (sometimes conflicting) advice mingled with occasional caustic comments, but you'll pick up hints and tips from them. I appreciate that you aren't beginners - my wife and I started out as hirers 20+ years ago - but there's a lot to learn when you move into ownership of a boat.

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Here is a search for trad boats on Apollo ducks...

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?view=1&layout=1&cid=71&fx=GBP&minv=28000&maxv=35000&minl=1432.56&maxl=1584.96&ymin=&ymax=&type=1&sort=4&limit=50

 

You should get something better than the one in your link for the money you have, maybe keep a bit back though and aim for 30k.

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Look around the £40k mark as I would expect to be offering around £35k for something in that price range. If you need to keep some of the budget for any work then come down to the £35k-£40k range.

You should be able to find something less than 20 years old and in a reasonable condition for that budget.

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

Welcome to CWDF, Tawny.

The boat which you have "plucked" is a Springer, an example of the first mass-produced narrowboats ever built. The last ones are now over 20 years old (this one is over 30 years old) but most seem to be still afloat. It's half your budget, so you could do much better. That said, it looks sound, though externally scruffy; beware of the word "project" used in a seller's description: this is brokerese for "work needs doing" which could be anything from a coat of paint to hull welding and a new engine.

I suggest that you go and see this boat (or another, convenient to where you live, which you can pluck from the Apollo Duck Narrowboats web site) and get an idea of how closely the photos and description match the reality. Do not be shy of posting other boats which interest you on here: you will get (sometimes conflicting) advice mingled with occasional caustic comments, but you'll pick up hints and tips from them. I appreciate that you aren't beginners - my wife and I started out as hirers 20+ years ago - but there's a lot to learn when you move into ownership of a boat.

I'm sure it will come as no surprise to them that a boat described as a project will need work. 

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The boats in question above all have the "with a mooring" tag - meaning (most likely) either a residential- or residential tolerated- mooring. So priced accordingly.

However the OP intends to cruise - so the value uplift is of no benefit to them.

It's always the parts that are not shown that are the trouble, tatty engine and unloved engine room, engine type (old Lister, Petter) that may not to be suited to modern day use.

The first is a Springer - which has (?) a V-shaped hull, making the space a bit more cramped. The fridge is electric and if used as a liveaboard on a mooring may be mains powered....

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1 hour ago, cuthound said:

It means it is a boat with a hull that doesn't rely on getting up onto the plane (which reduces the amountil of water it displaces) such as speed boats.

All canal boats are full displacement hulls.

Thank you :)

I am still looking about and just getting used to what adverts say.  I take it that if a boat has not been blacked since 2011, this is not a good thing?  Shouldn't it be done every 2-3 years?

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This may be an interesting thread for me to keep an eye on - you are a couple of years ahead of my own aspirations!

I think I am forming a mental list of Must-Haves (length, age, basic spec, etc), Must-Not-Haves (things like an engine room), and Would-Be-Nices (eg solar, travel-power, bow-thruster?), just in an attempt to reduce the options.

When I get serious, I'll probably write all this down, but I think it's good to get some of the big decisions made as early as possible in the process.

Best of luck!

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44 minutes ago, Tawny75 said:

Thank you :)

I am still looking about and just getting used to what adverts say.  I take it that if a boat has not been blacked since 2011, this is not a good thing?  Shouldn't it be done every 2-3 years?

 

39 minutes ago, Athy said:

Correct.

Unless it has epoxy (AKA 2 pack) blacking, which lasts for up to 10 years but still needs the boat to be taken  out of the water for checking every 3-5 years.

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Oh my word!!!!  I didn't even know they had paddleboats in the UK!  

http://vcmarine.co.uk/boat-sales/49ft-fernie-boats-paddlewheel-cruiser-stern-narrowboat/

Just thought I would point out, we are not looking at this one, we just thought....how odd!

 

 

Edited by Tawny75
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40 minutes ago, Tawny75 said:

Oh my word!!!!  I didn't even know they had paddleboats in the UK!  

http://vcmarine.co.uk/boat-sales/49ft-fernie-boats-paddlewheel-cruiser-stern-narrowboat/

Just thought I would point out, we are not looking at this one, we just thought....how odd!

 

 

They enjoyed a brief vogue, notably on canals which were still being restored and were prone to being shallow. The paddle wheel sits higher in the water than a propeller does. This boat's a Fernie, a '70s builder, which is about the time that such boats were made, though only in small numbers I think. There's another one around called 'Jethro Tull'.

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Another question if I may

Again, I am still trying to get my head around all of the adverts.  On this one, it seems to have bunks at the back and a single bunk, are these easily removed?  Secondly, it says it is 7'1" at its widest point, would that rule out the narrow canals like the Staffs and Worcester?

https://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/3953.aspx

Thank you, and if I am asking too many questions, please tell me to jog on.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Tawny75 said:

are these easily removed?

It entirely depends on how they were fitted and how good you are at woodwork & painting. 

2 minutes ago, Tawny75 said:

it says it is 7'1" at its widest point, would that rule out the narrow canals like the Staffs and Worcester?

It would make it very tight in some locks. Others can advise which ones. I do wonder where they got that figure from. 

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6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

 

It would make it very tight in some locks. Others can advise which ones. I do wonder where they got that figure from. 

From its widest point! It is evidently a cut-down former working boat, and many of those were a bit wider than the 6'10" to which we are accustomed nowadays.

It's under offer anyway.

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41 minutes ago, Athy said:

From its widest point!

Ha ha very droll. 

It's not the easiest thing to measure a boat with a cabin which I why I wondered about its accuracy. I'm surprised they didn't tighten its belt a bit when converting it. 

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3 hours ago, zimzim said:

This may be an interesting thread for me to keep an eye on - you are a couple of years ahead of my own aspirations!

I think I am forming a mental list of Must-Haves (length, age, basic spec, etc), Must-Not-Haves (things like an engine room), and Would-Be-Nices (eg solar, travel-power, bow-thruster?), just in an attempt to reduce the options.

When I get serious, I'll probably write all this down, but I think it's good to get some of the big decisions made as early as possible in the process.

Best of luck!

Sometimes, sometimes Must-not-haves turn into I-could-possibly-live-with-that. Your example of an engine room is a case in point. In the right boat it could be of benefit.

So perhaps your your 'must not' into something more like I-could-possibly-do-without and I-could-possibly-modify-that-to suit my needs.

Engine room - somewhere to dry clothes, keep firewood, have a small workshop or replace-pump out with cassette....

 

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25 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Ha ha very droll. 

It's not the easiest thing to measure a boat with a cabin which I why I wondered about its accuracy. I'm surprised they didn't tighten its belt a bit when converting it. 

In these electronic times, is there not some sort of digital device which can replace a steam tape measure and take accurate readings?

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31 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Sometimes, sometimes Must-not-haves turn into I-could-possibly-live-with-that. Your example of an engine room is a case in point. In the right boat it could be of benefit.

So perhaps your your 'must not' into something more like I-could-possibly-do-without and I-could-possibly-modify-that-to suit my needs.

Engine room - somewhere to dry clothes, keep firewood, have a small workshop or replace-pump out with cassette....

 

Agreed - but this is a holiday boat, so keeping firewood and having a workshop might not be paramount.

I wouldn't want to suggest what should be on the list (each to his own)..... I just think some sort of list might be useful for the purposes of elimination.

I like lists when facing really complicated decisions. Spreadsheets even better!

 

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I guess it would need to be on the hard and then drop plumb bobs. 

12 minutes ago, Athy said:

In these electronic times, is there not some sort of digital device which can replace a steam tape measure and take accurate readings?

 

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If we're talking about a holiday boat for 2, personally I'd be looking at smaller vessels - say, sub-40ft. I can absolutely see why people appreciate extra storage and living space in a liveaboard boat, but when you're in holiday mode and spending most of your time on the deck steering, exploring on foot, or in the pub, I don't see any real benefit in having extra space inside beyond the basics of somewhere to cook, eat, sleep etc. All else being equal, a smaller boat is going to be cheaper to license, moor, insure, maintain and run, and for any given budget you'll get a nicer, newer boat if you shave 10 or 20 feet off the length. 

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