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Do single socket windlasses exist?


magpie patrick

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24 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Canalshop has closed down since the proprietor was sent away. 

They had a stand at Crick with a very large banner over it:

UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT.

But coming through Hillmorton today, couldn't see any sign of the shop.

1 hour ago, Detling said:

 

Yes, but you will always get off with the wrong one.

Adolescent romance summed up in one phrase...:rolleyes:

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

My favourite type of windlass is those old fabricated steel ones, with the eyes side-by-side on the end. This means the same leverage is available on each so no temptation to use the wrong eye. They should be brought back IMO.

Hadn't noticed you couldn't get them any more, must take great care of ours, then.

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2 hours ago, Canal Cuttings said:

That's interesting.  Which features make them so hateful, and what is their "true state"?  Back to the original single width, or less radical than that?

They are harder work than they should be. Despite the gearing they aren't as easy to wind as many standard paddles and also don't always fall under their own weight like they are designed to do.

As a narrow boater with a short boat I always cast a glance at the overspill channels in the old narrow locks and wish I could use those instead. I had a joyless experience at Hatton last week sharing with a crew on a newly refurbished boat heading to London for intended liveaboard continuous cruising. No problem with the crew of that boat but I would have enjoyed it more with just me and my lad in a flight of narrow locks like we did that morning at Lapworth worrying about what we were doing rather than what they were doing.

JP

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If you have a single big eye windlass then all you need is a short length of 90 degree steel section of the right thickness cut and filled to fit inside the existing big eye to reduce it down to fit the small eye. One problem with this is if you use a long throw big eye make sure you miss the balance beam with your knuckles.

If you are good with a file then the insert can be made a slight force fit that needs a tap on the metalwork of a gate to fit or remove it.

windlass insert.pdf

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5 minutes ago, barry adams said:

If you have a single big eye windlass then all you need is a short length of 90 degree steel section of the right thickness cut and filled to fit inside the existing big eye to reduce it down to fit the small eye. One problem with this is if you use a long throw big eye make sure you miss the balance beam with your knuckles.

If you are good with a file then the insert can be made a slight force fit that needs a tap on the metalwork of a gate to fit or remove it.

windlass insert.pdf

Done this with the middle windlass. Made the sleeve force fit with Gorilla Glue for "belt & braces."

DSCF4953.jpg

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2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Come to think of it the hydraulic lifting bridges on the Stratford use the larger eye. The last few hydraulic paddles on narrow locks that I know of - Tardebigge no. 57 and Lapworth no. 14 or 15?? - use the standard narrow lock spindles if I remember correctly.

Grindley Brook still has hydraulics (the very first) - not sure what spindle size.

Don't remember where I read it but the Ham-Baker paddle gear at Hatton was reputed to be a delight to operate when first installed.

(While on the subject of paddle gear, I didn't think it was possible for Maidenhead Road Lock 53 on the Stratford - the one with the right-angled balance beam by the road bridge - to get any nastier to work, but the addition of a pawl stop has achieved that. You have to lift the stop with one arm outstretched and wind the paddle with the other. As yet there doesn't appear to be a requirement to stand on your head while winding the paddle but it wouldn't surprise me.)

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1 minute ago, Richard Fairhurst said:

Grindley Brook still has hydraulics (the very first) - not sure what spindle size.

Don't remember where I read it but the Ham-Baker paddle gear at Hatton was reputed to be a delight to operate when first installed.

(While on the subject of paddle gear, I didn't think it was possible for Maidenhead Road Lock 53 on the Stratford - the one with the right-angled balance beam by the road bridge - to get any nastier to work, but the addition of a pawl stop has achieved that. You have to lift the stop with one arm outstretched and wind the paddle with the other. As yet there doesn't appear to be a requirement to stand on your head while winding the paddle but it wouldn't surprise me.)

 

That will have been done by CRT to make it 'safer', in some weird way only known to people who sit at desks in suits.

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Quite - it certainly wasn't done by someone who then tried to operate the lock!

Here's what the gate looks like:

 Lock-53.jpg

Imagine that you've opened the gate and you're trying to wind the paddle down. You can't use the spindle on the left because the road bridge is in the way, so your windlass is on the spindle on the right. But the pawl stop is on the left. So you have to keep the stop lifted with your left hand and stretch your arms fully so you can still wind the paddle down.

guess you could wait until the gate is closed and then use the spindle on the left, but that's not ideal, especially if you've just descended and you're handing the lock over to an incoming boat whose crew might not realise/remember what you've done.

Edited by Richard Fairhurst
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5 hours ago, mango said:

The distant ones provide a little more leverage and the nearer ones allow the windlass to be used when the spindle is near the balance beam or to allow easy paddles to be opened more quickly.

The very popular Walsh alloy windlasses have until recently in my experience all had the taper socket that is required more than 90% of the time nearer the handle, and the parallel one further away.

AS you say I'm sure this has encouraged many to incorrectly use the parallel sided hole on the "standard" tapered spindle.....

HOWEVER.........

Watching some hire boaters being instructed at their first lock 2 days ago, the instuctor was using the further away hole from the handle on "standard" spindles, and encouraging his trainees to do the same.

I was going to quietly point out his error, but actually had not made one.  When I asked one of the hirers to show me a windlass, it turns out they are now engineered differently, and have the tapered hole at the end, and the parallel one as the inset one with te shorter throw.

Presumably Walsh now think that's the better way around, and I tend to agree.  However on any boat that has a mixture of old style and new style it will be dead confusing!

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5 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Ok: not four different socket sizes rhen

I've got one like that but two of the sockets are half way up the handle: short throw and long throw in one windlass 

Known as a Rochdale windlass, although you may have some other name for it.

Actually this thread reminds me of a rural pub I know where the subject of hammers was banned after 3 days and potatoes after five.  People were bringing in examples and leaving them under the tables for the next night's conversation

 

Edited by Mac of Cygnet
Double post
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5 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

 

The big square spindles on hydraulic paddles is the same size as the spindles on the geared Ham and Baker paddles. Apparently a taper on thr hydraulic gear leads to the windlass slipping, whilst on the much older Ham and Baker paddle the spindle is integral and not easy to replace 


Which is so highly bizarre these days, because back in the 1970s, when it looked like BW wished to force hydraulic paddle gear as a replacement on all locks, they all used to use the small "Oxford style" tapered spindle, I believe, not a Ham Baker shaped one.

And of course back then GU locks south of Braunston and on the Leicester used to use the much bigger spindles.

So in the 1970s you used BIG eye on normal GU paddles, but a SMALL one where hydraulics had replaced them.  Now it is the other way around!  The change over period must have been quite bonkers!

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20 hours ago, alan_fincher said:


Which is so highly bizarre these days, because back in the 1970s, when it looked like BW wished to force hydraulic paddle gear as a replacement on all locks, they all used to use the small "Oxford style" tapered spindle, I believe, not a Ham Baker shaped one.

And of course back then GU locks south of Braunston and on the Leicester used to use the much bigger spindles.

So in the 1970s you used BIG eye on normal GU paddles, but a SMALL one where hydraulics had replaced them.  Now it is the other way around!  The change over period must have been quite bonkers!

I vaguely remember those days, but in the 70's there were at least FOUR "standard" sizes - 7/8 inch taper, 1 inch taper, 1 1/8th inch square (K and A only) 1 1/4 square (GU and similar) - apparently when the angle of taper was considered the number was considerably higher!

I have somewhere an old T&M size windless, it doesn't go far enough onto the modern spindles to use with any comfort. 

20 hours ago, alan_fincher said:


Watching some hire boaters being instructed at their first lock 2 days ago, the instuctor was using the further away hole from the handle on "standard" spindles, and encouraging his trainees to do the same.

I was going to quietly point out his error, but actually had not made one.  When I asked one of the hirers to show me a windlass, it turns out they are now engineered differently, and have the tapered hole at the end, and the parallel one as the inset one with te shorter throw.

Presumably Walsh now think that's the better way around,
and I tend to agree.  However on any boat that has a mixture of old style and new style it will be dead confusing!

Walsh presumably had the same thought as me, that people head for the outermost socket first and only if it doesn't fit try the other one. 

As an aside, I seem to recall the Grand Canal of Ireland Windlasses had two sockets - one at each end

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On 4 June 2017 at 09:54, magpie patrick said:

Ok: not four different socket sizes rhen

I've got one like that but two of the sockets are half way up the handle: short throw and long throw in one windlass 

That sounds very much like the ones that Shire Cruisers use.  They look a bit naff but do the job very well.

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On 4 June 2017 at 15:38, alan_fincher said:

The very popular Walsh alloy windlasses have until recently in my experience all had the taper socket that is required more than 90% of the time nearer the handle, and the parallel one further away.

AS you say I'm sure this has encouraged many to incorrectly use the parallel sided hole on the "standard" tapered spindle.....

HOWEVER.........

Watching some hire boaters being instructed at their first lock 2 days ago, the instuctor was using the further away hole from the handle on "standard" spindles, and encouraging his trainees to do the same.

I was going to quietly point out his error, but actually had not made one.  When I asked one of the hirers to show me a windlass, it turns out they are now engineered differently, and have the tapered hole at the end, and the parallel one as the inset one with te shorter throw.

Presumably Walsh now think that's the better way around, and I tend to agree.  However on any boat that has a mixture of old style and new style it will be dead confusing!

That shows that if we whinge for long enough, sometimes someone listens.  I don't imagine that having the taper socket at the far end will stop people using the large socket on taper spindles, but we can live in hope.  :-)

The only windlass that I have bought is a steel Walsh one with the sockets side by side.  The rest are all 'rescue windlasses'.

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