Returning to time restricted moorings.

[Boat&Bikes]

We are currently on the K&A heading towards Bristol. Lots of moorings are 24 or 48 hours. When we turn is there a timespan that restricts us from mooring at the same spots within a week or two? Cheers Ian.

[Guest]

Not that I am aware of, and if you are cruising through I can't see it being a problem.

[Martin Megson]

As I understand it, only if there is a sign such as "No return within 14 days".  Otherwise it should be OK.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Martin Megson
Typing

[Boat&Bikes]

Thanks. Ian.

[Guest]

Have fun, wave as you go by 

[Boat&Bikes]

10 hours ago, Meanderingviking said:

Have fun, wave as you go by 

Thanks, il keep an eye out for a Viking and be sure to wave.

[Murflynn]

that begs the question - if there are boat checkers passing through every few days they may check you twice in the same place and assume you haven't moved (unless they notice that your boat is moored facing the opposite direction).  So either you are reported for overstaying, or the time limitation is unenforceable.

[pearley]

20 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

that begs the question - if there are boat checkers passing through every few days they may check you twice in the same place and assume you haven't moved (unless they notice that your boat is moored facing the opposite direction).  So either you are reported for overstaying, or the time limitation is unenforceable.

Yes, we got reported for overstaying at the Pumphouse like that, despite we had spent a week in the drydock at Hockley Port in the middle of the 14 day period. A quick phone call sorted it.

 

[dmr]

15 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

that begs the question - if there are boat checkers passing through every few days they may check you twice in the same place and assume you haven't moved (unless they notice that your boat is moored facing the opposite direction).  So either you are reported for overstaying, or the time limitation is unenforceable.

Even if they spot you twice a month apart they will assume you have not moved and send an automated letter, and once you go west of Bath you will almost certainly not be spotted. Just don't worry about things and enjoy boating. Getting a couple of spurious "please continue your journey" letters each year is now a part of boating for some of us. I also suspect that its really only exceeding 14 days that generates a letter. 24 and 48 hour limits should perhaps be regarded as a guide for civilised boating rather than a rigid rule.

................Dave

[Boat&Bikes]

21 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

that begs the question - if there are boat checkers passing through every few days they may check you twice in the same place and assume you haven't moved (unless they notice that your boat is moored facing the opposite direction).  So either you are reported for overstaying, or the time limitation is unenforceable.

This is why I asked the question. Might be hard to prove I've moved even though I have.

[Tony Brooks]

10 minutes ago, ianali said:

This is why I asked the question. Might be hard to prove I've moved even though I have.

Won't you have the receipt for your mooring in Bristol harbour?

[dmr]

7 minutes ago, ianali said:

This is why I asked the question. Might be hard to prove I've moved even though I have.

You really don't have to prove anything, just go boating. There are many boats down there that spend 90% of their lives between Bath and Bradford so I doubt your visit is return is that important on the big scheme of things. Checking is usually once per week, with possible volunteer checks and Bradford on Avon a bit more often.

Life on the cut is laid back and fun and all this talk of detailed rules is only important on this forum. Last year in central Birmingham I went to the CaRT office and asked if I could stay a few extra days, my excuse was that I was really enjoying Birmingham. They said it was fine, they did not ask for my boat name or number.

In Bristol I like mooring in St Argustines Reach best, right in the middle of the night life action. Lovely pizzas and loads of ciders at "The Stable", and even a dedicated Vegan menu.

and if you really want to prove things you will of course have your Bristol Harbour mooring sticker in your window!!!!   On a sunny day Bath to Bristol is lovely boating.

..........Dave

[Boat&Bikes]

Yep I don't tend to over worry about these things. Was just curious. Thanks for the mooring info in Bristol... I like cider! Cheers Ian.

[dmr]

1 minute ago, ianali said:

Yep I don't tend to over worry about these things. Was just curious. Thanks for the mooring info in Bristol... I like cider! Cheers Ian.

They got hundreds of 'em in the Stable so take it easy!

Better to pay for Bristol at Netham Lock rather than at the harbour office. Depending upon who is there you they may well suggest a shorter length for your boat, so when they ask how long you say you are not sure and let them take a guess! If you can stay a week its much better value.

............Dave

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

Depending upon who is there you they may well suggest a shorter length for your boat, so when they ask how long you say you are not sure and let them take a guess

But when Amazon, Google and 'high flying executives' do something similar there is 'uproar'.

Pay your way in life. Whatever it seems like at the time 'cheats never prosper'.

[Boat&Bikes]

As a matter of interest would the Bristol harbour be a good place to leave a boat if I want to pop home for a few days? 

[dmr]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But when Amazon, Google and 'high flying executives' do something similar there is 'uproar'.

Pay your way in life. Whatever it seems like at the time 'cheats never prosper'.

 

The old bloke who did Netham lock, I think now retired, took the attitude that the mooring fees are excessive, which they are, and was trying to make the fee just a tiny bit more reasonable, I see nothing wrong with that. He is a Bristol man, loves his city and wants as many people as possible to visit, stay longer and enjoy their visit. This is good, its a man who knows his stuff trying to correct the errors of officialdom.

Bristol is more than £30 per night for a seventy footer, Liverpool is a comparable city and is free. We meet many boats who visit the K&A and turn back at Bath saying "dosn't it cost a fortune to go to Bristol?". We also see a fair few stay in Bristol only one night so that they can say they have "done the Bristol Avon" and so don't spend any time (or money) in what many consider to be the most exciting city in the country.

..............Dave

[dmr]

1 hour ago, ianali said:

As a matter of interest would the Bristol harbour be a good place to leave a boat if I want to pop home for a few days? 

Yes, but its an expensive option. Also if moored to a wall rather than the pontoons do check that there is not a scouring scheduled for whilst you are away. Scouring is an opening of the sluices to remove silt and can give a significant drop in water level.

...............Dave

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

Bristol is more than £30 per night for a seventy footer

Another example of 'if the rules don't suit, they don't apply'

 

And York is £70 per night for a 70 footer (but it does include electric)

Newark (in the marina) is £10 per night.

Mooring fees are 'what they are', you go somewhere in the full knowledge of what it will cost.

I find dishonesty just 'wrong'.

[pearley]

Newark now £10.50 including electricity

[davem399]

As a part owner in a share boat, I have often wondered if the boat gets regularly spotted at particular moorings over the course of several weeks, albeit with a different crew, which might look as if the boat has overstayed?  

[Muddy Ditch Rich]

Moorings time limits on the towpath under 14 days are not lawful,  irrespective of whether they are a good idea or not,  the 14 day time limit is statutory, ie the law, there is absolutely nothing CaRT can do about that except petition parliment to change the law. Even IF the licence was a civil contract that you agreed to, no contract term can ( normally) override the law, any such term is void, and no one is bound by such a unlawful term. The reduced time limits are therefore purely voluntary.

CRT are fully aware of this and do not pursue any further action if you "overstay" at these moorings, they may attempt to charge you but the charge is in legal terms a fine which is illegal,  and they know this as well, and do not enforce any of these fines if you refuse to pay them, which you should rightly do. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, Muddy Ditch Rich said:

Moorings time limits on the towpath under 14 days are not lawful,  irrespective of whether they are a good idea or not,  the 14 day time limit is statutory, ie the law, there is absolutely nothing CaRT can do about that except petition parliment to change the law. Even IF the licence was a civil contract that you agreed to, no contract term can ( normally) override the law, any such term is void, and no one is bound by such a unlawful term. The reduced time limits are therefore purely voluntary.

CRT are fully aware of this and do not pursue any further action if you "overstay" at these moorings, they may attempt to charge you but the charge is in legal terms a fine which is illegal,  and they know this as well, and do not enforce any of these fines if you refuse to pay them, which you should rightly do. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am fairly sure that in the past Nigel Moore has made the point that :

14 day permitted moorings is enshrined in law for boats that have declared 'NO HOME MOORING' (ie CCers)

For boats that have declared a HOME MOORING here is no such legal protection and the permission is granted by C&RT in its terms and conditions 'out of the goodness of their hearts' and could be revoked.

[Muddy Ditch Rich]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am fairly sure that in the past Nigel Moore has made the point that :

14 day permitted moorings is enshrined in law for boats that have declared 'NO HOME MOORING' (ie CCers)

For boats that have declared a HOME MOORING here is no such legal protection and the permission is granted by C&RT in its terms and conditions 'out of the goodness of their hearts' and could be revoked.

 

Like you say there is no mooring time limit for boats with moorings . The legislation is completely clear and cant be reinterpreted on that. I would think it would be an impossible task to convince boaters of that now though, the lie has been accepted for so long. 

 

Either 

(i)the Board are satisfied that a mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left will be available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere; or

(ii)the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances.

 

Don't get what you mean by " permission" in your last paragraph though Alan, permission to do what ?

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Muddy Ditch Rich said:

 

Like you say there is no mooring time limit for boats with moorings . The legislation is completely clear and cant be reinterpreted on that. I would think it would be an impossible task to convince boaters of that now though, the lie has been accepted for so long. 

 

Either 

(i)the Board are satisfied that a mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left will be available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere; or

(ii)the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances.

 

Don't get what you mean by " permission" in your last paragraph though Alan, permission to do what ?

 

 

 

 

I think you may be misunderstanding :

For boats WITHOUT a home mooring, mooring is limited to 14 days (by Statute)

For boats WITH a home mooring there is no legal right for them to moor at all. The "permissive right" is granted by C&RT within their T&Cs.

This is C&RTs 'permission' to allow boaters with a home mooring to 'moor' for longer periods than 'just overnight' (which I seem to remember is all that the legislation allows for)

2.1. The Licence allows you to use the Boat in any Waterway including mooring for short periods while cruising.  ‘Short period’ means up to 14 days or less where a local restriction applies.  The Licence does not permit mooring for any longer period.  Daily charges may be applied for staying longer than the maximum time allowed.  
 

Hopefully Nigel may respond with 'chapter & verse' and quote the relevant Act.

My mind grows dim !!!