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ditchcrawler

Selling part of the canal

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I assume that CRT are selling it and not giving it away. On the Trent and Mersey Canal a short way south of Park Farm Marina the farmer now has planning consent to build a marina on one of the flashes, this of course belongs to CRT. Today there is a notice on the towpath opposite with a map that states they plan to "dispose" of this bit of water/land. I hope you can read it OK as I photographed it as I passed.

DSCF7836.JPG

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Interesting - I wonder if C&RT have complied with the T&Cs detailed in the transfer documents from BW.

 

2.4 The Trustee must obtain the Settlor’s** prior written consent before:
2.4.1 disposing of any part of the Infrastructure Property 
a )  by way of freehold; or
b ) by way of any leasehold disposal that would have the effect of restricting any generally available public access to the Infrastructure Property existing at the time of the disposal (for the avoidance of doubt the Parties agree that all towpaths are generally available to public access at the time of disposal);

 

**The settlor being the Government (THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS )

 

Maybe a FOI Request is required ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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Do they own the flash? These were not built, they're the result of subsidence and the canal company didn't own the land before it subsided. 

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4 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Do they own the flash? These were not built, they're the result of subsidence and the canal company didn't own the land before it subsided. 

Good question, but I think they own it by virtue of the boundary being defined as the water-land edge of the canal, erosion occuring, then CRUICIALLY the other landowner not makng a claim of ownership of it. Thus while its true to say that historically a long time ago (before the subsidance) they didn't own it, nearer-in-time, after the subsidence occurred but before the marina was proposed to be built, they did own it based on the interpretation of the boundary (water's edge) and the non-claiming by anyone else (probably the salt mines at the time?)

That's my simplified understanding of it and I don't know the historical details, maybe there is evidence of something else occurring. But even if there's evidence it would have (need to have been) acted on without timing out etc etc

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Interesting - I wonder if C&RT have complied with the T&Cs detailed in the transfer documents from BW.

 

2.4 The Trustee must obtain the Settlor’s** prior written consent before:
2.4.1 disposing of any part of the Infrastructure Property 
a )  by way of freehold; or
b ) by way of any leasehold disposal that would have the effect of restricting any generally available public access to the Infrastructure Property existing at the time of the disposal (for the avoidance of doubt the Parties agree that all towpaths are generally available to public access at the time of disposal);

 

**The settlor being the Government (THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS )

 

Maybe a FOI Request is required ?

Do you think that a Tory Secretary of State for the Environment (Andrea Leadsom) is going to raise any objection whatsoever to CRT disposing of their assets to a private individual?

I don't think any FOI request is necessary:rolleyes:

  • Greenie 1

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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I assume that CRT are selling it and not giving it away. On the Trent and Mersey Canal a short way south of Park Farm Marina the farmer now has planning consent to build a marina on one of the flashes, this of course belongs to CRT. Today there is a notice on the towpath opposite with a map that states they plan to "dispose" of this bit of water/land. I hope you can read it OK as I photographed it as I passed.

DSCF7836.JPG

All proposed 

 

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I assume that CRT are selling it and not giving it away. On the Trent and Mersey Canal a short way south of Park Farm Marina the farmer now has planning consent to build a marina on one of the flashes, this of course belongs to CRT. Today there is a notice on the towpath opposite with a map that states they plan to "dispose" of this bit of water/land. I hope you can read it OK as I photographed it as I passed.

DSCF7836.JPG

All proposed CRT land transfers are advertised on their web site:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/business-and-trade/public-notices

 

Tim

 

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Don`t forget anyone can apply for planning permission on any ones land. However if they build or try to build it the land proprietor owns the development. It is also common practice to apply for planning permission the success of which is part of an agreement to  purchase. Perhaps the farmers taking a punt. He needs them and they (CRT) need him to develop the waterway

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This plan has been on and off for about 10 years, see this thread: http://canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/34204-new-marina-site-near-northwich/&, and also http://www.oakwoodmarina.co.uk/. Parts of the flash have been marked out with poles for a couple of years plus, but in the "bulge" to the right of the hatched area on the new notice.

 

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Another marina so good CRT should own the Lease enabling them to charge rent and also receive money under the NAA agreement .Far better than some water that gives nothing to the CRT purse.

 

  • Greenie 1

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9 hours ago, Ray T said:

The flash is Billinge Green Flash, one of the three where BW dumped and sank boats many years ago now. There is one left, Brill, of the "fish" class, sadly way beyond any restoration.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2718569

 

519877_6bd665f7[1].jpg

2718581_4f9baaf2[1].jpg

Top picture: left foreground is Bridgewater tug "Manchester" (?) later at the Boat Museum and now in storage , right of picture is LNER "Scotia", mentioned  on here a couple of weeks ago . This must be a relatively recent picture, perhaps 1980's as the tug earlier  had steel cabin frames along most of its length, they had been seriously bent by someone trying to recover the boat. This was before Riley & Co winched most of the boats out onto the field.

Bill

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On 5/21/2017 at 07:21, b0atman said:

Another marina so good CRT should own the Lease enabling them to charge rent and also receive money under the NAA agreement .Far better than some water that gives nothing to the CRT purse.

 

Surely under the NAA CRT will receive the normal 9% of notional mooring income in return for allowing the marina to connect to the canal, notwithstanding that it is already connected. 

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Any development that benefits boats using the canal can only be supported. A marina has many of the good points such as the provision of services, boat mooring as well as improving the existing site.

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1 hour ago, Heartland said:

Any development that benefits boats using the canal can only be supported. A marina has many of the good points such as the provision of services, boat mooring as well as improving the existing site.

I dont think in this case it will do any of those

Yes it will have moorings but I think it would look much better left as a flash.

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Yes, and the fisherman will retain a good fishing place, so from their perspective the flash is better left alone and there is the ecological factors as well. Yet boatyards and moorings are required and so there can only be a set of mixed opinions on this. My recollection of boating past here, at the normal speed and slowing down for the fishermen, as one does, was to encounter a fisherman who appeared to dislike any boat passing his spot. Hiding within his little tent he would take aim at passing boaters with his bait catapult and the missiles he used tended to be stones. In my case his missile shattered a cup of coffee on the cabin roof!

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1 hour ago, Heartland said:

Yes, and the fisherman will retain a good fishing place, so from their perspective the flash is better left alone and there is the ecological factors as well. Yet boatyards and moorings are required and so there can only be a set of mixed opinions on this. My recollection of boating past here, at the normal speed and slowing down for the fishermen, as one does, was to encounter a fisherman who appeared to dislike any boat passing his spot. Hiding within his little tent he would take aim at passing boaters with his bait catapult and the missiles he used tended to be stones. In my case his missile shattered a cup of coffee on the cabin roof!

Thankfully I have never had a problem but encountered several anglers in the area

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