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looking for some easy to use software to try out layout ideas and do a proper design of the motorcycle ramp and storage idea I have in mind.

I am very old school in that I was very good in technical drawing where you actually had to use paper and drew plan and elevations first before you went to an isometric 3d view.  If possible I would like to be able to work in this way.  I have tried sketchup but to be honest its a pain in the hole, and seems overly complicated for what I want to achieve.  Also I find it hard not being able to work in a true plan view or true side elevation view but that probably goes back to my past experience of technical drawing before CAD CAM was even available.

Also important to me would be pre designed hulls, as I would have no idea as to the correct dimensions for each part to draw a hull from scratch. 

Not so important but it would be nice, if things link sink units, cookers, fridges, toilets were cut and paste, but this is not essential.

finally it has to be free or fairly cheap.  I am not going to spend £100+ on a bit of software that I will rarely use after this project.

 

An alternative would be free downloads of existing plans that include all dimensions and angles so that I could use the pencil and paper method and reproduce an accurate hull in my own drawings although i seriously doubt any commercial enterprise is going to freely offer their designs.

 

Any suggestions or recommendations would be welcome.

 

Edited by efanton
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41 minutes ago, efanton said:

 

Also important to me would be pre designed hulls, as I would have no idea as to the correct dimensions for each part to draw a hull from scratch. 

An alternative would be free downloads of existing plans that include all dimensions and angles so that I could use the pencil and paper method and reproduce an accurate hull in my own drawings

But there's no such thing as a standard narrowboat hull.  Every boatbuilder's dimensions will be different. If you design your bike storage system to fit one hull type there is no way of knowing if it will fit the boat you eventually end up with.

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I actually drew a scale plan of the empty boat, then drew up some 'standard' item such as the bed, 600mm wide units, cooker etc and cut out the shapes and then moved them about on the paper plan of the boat.  Takes a bit of time to cut out the bits etc, but once done it is easy to see and show others the ideas.  Saves learning another program which I will never use again.  Simple is best.....

Added  - and this would work with various bike storage, ramps etc ideas.

Edited by Chewbacka
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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

But there's no such thing as a standard narrowboat hull.  Every boatbuilder's dimensions will be different. If you design your bike storage system to fit one hull type there is no way of knowing if it will fit the boat you eventually end up with.

My idea does not require precision engineering.  I understand that different hulls will vary, and that might mean minor modification of the dimensions of my design.  the important thing here is they will be MINOR and the plan I draw can be adapted to the boat I eventually buy or get built.

Certain things will not require changes (for instance I would assume that the deck on all boats are level and bulk heads vertical)  Some things will vary slightly, (the height between the deck and top of gunwale) but these slight differences will have little impact on my design.  As for the radius of the bow walls this might vary a lot but I have already factored in that I will need an extended bow deck  anyhow,  a bow wall with a small radius might mean adding an extra foot or two to the bow deck.  Obviously this can be factored in during build of the sail away or if buying a boat thats already built.  Thanks for you concern but it is not necessary,  the whole purpose of drawing a proper design is to see what length of bow deck I need and how that would vary depending on bow shape.  Do you have a suggestion to software that I can use, thats what I asked?

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13 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I actually drew a scale plan of the empty boat, then drew up some 'standard' item such as the bed, 600mm wide units, cooker etc and cut out the shapes and then moved them about on the paper plan of the boat.  Takes a bit of time to cut out the bits etc, but once done it is easy to see and show others the ideas.  Saves learning another program which I will never use again.  Simple is best.....

Added  - and this would work with various bike storage, ramps etc ideas.

 

thats something I have considered,  but it would be nicer to be able to adjust bow deck length,  bow shape etc and see how this would affect my idea.  I would assume this is going to be easier using some sort of software rather than drawing multiple plans by hand

36 minutes ago, AjW said:

google: sweet home 3d.

It's a good place to start for general layout.

Thanks, looking at that now.  If I can import a hull into it it just might do the trick

Would still appreciate other suggestions though

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Decks are flat and bulkheads vertical when boats are built.  But, when afloat, narrowboats are almost always down by the stern.  So when designing hinges or pivots don't assume that a heavy object, on a cantilever won't swing out under it's own weight.  Your 'vertical' would need to be adjustable.

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Old school like you. I don't know of software that will give you a simple old type view. Look at Nanocad or Draftsight for good Cad free soft ware in 2D. What you are asking for is 3D and usually cost several thousand to purchase. They all take a while to learn. Solidworks seems to be a favorite  

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Old school here http://www.thefitoutpontoon.co.uk/buying-building-canal-narrowboat-boat-plan-view-scaled-graph-paper-layout-designing-download-technical-drawings.html

£34.95 a drawing they used to do a layout on squares with overlays for bed seating galley shower room items etc you could mess around with I can't see it there now.

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8 hours ago, series3 said:

I had a fabrication shop. Draw it on the back af a fag packet and take it in to one. They'll do the rest.

 

Seconded.

Turn up with a series of CAD drawings and they'll secretly be rolling their eyes about you behind your back. They will then set about building what they decide you need rather than what you actually drew. :) 

Setting this effect aside though, my personal experience is that drawing programs are all fiendishly complex and time consuming to learn. IT WILL be quicker to get yourself a drawing board and a set square and do multiple pencil and paper drawings. Much quicker!

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50 minutes ago, mross said:

Luggsy, did you know that's a misquote?  

“Perfection of character is this: to live each day as if it were your last, without frenzy, without apathy, without pretence.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Eh? Wrong thread?

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If you are having a boat built - why not rely on the experience of the builder - tell them what you want and leave them to it.

If you are going to 'design' it, then just take you plans to a local skip manufacturer - it will probably be a fair bit cheaper as you are providing the 'hard part' and just let them be 'metal-bashers'.

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Rather than opining on what you hope to design, in answer to your original request, when I designed my own boat I used a 2D drawing programme called DeltaCad. Very simple and intuitive to use.

https://www.deltacad.com/

screenshot1.jpg.0fa62017782ec91099fcfe35236bed16.jpg

 

5916fd345ce73_sterndims_tmp.jpg.9b339238fd80fab903424b9c3fc77f7d.jpg

Edited by Rick-n-Jo
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4 hours ago, Rick-n-Jo said:

Rather than opining on what you hope to design, in answer to your original request, when I designed my own boat I used a 2D drawing programme called DeltaCad. Very simple and intuitive to use.

https://www.deltacad.com/

 

 

 

Rick-n-Jo you are an absolute star :D

That's exactly what I am looking for.  I notice you can import .DWG and .DXF files to so if I can find a pre-made plan of a narrowboat that will make my task even easier. 

Thank you so much,  after 5 hours messing with sketchup with little real progress I was about to give up.

 

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On 14/05/2017 at 18:35, harrybsmith said:

If you don't end up getting on well with that then feel free to send me dimensions and sketches and I'll see what I can knock up in 3d for you, as I've got access to all the gear at Uni.

 

I'm curious now. When I worked in a machine shop the last thing we expected or needed was a 3D representation. A set of 2D third angle  projection drawings were perfectly easy to read.

I can't imagine why a competent fabricator would need or want a 3D drawing, or how one would go about adding dimension lines and dimensions complete with tolerances to a 3D representation. 

I definitely feel a complete dinosaur typing all that!!

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42 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm curious now. When I worked in a machine shop the last thing we expected or needed was a 3D representation. A set of 2D third angle  projection drawings were perfectly easy to read.

I can't imagine why a competent fabricator would need or want a 3D drawing, or how one would go about adding dimension lines and dimensions complete with tolerances to a 3D representation. 

I definitely feel a complete dinosaur typing all that!!

That may be entirely true once the thing has been designed and worked out, but I certainly find sketching out a quick CAD model useful, especially when moving stuff is in play.  (In the same way that most people would use a sketch on the back of a napkin)

I also have no clue how you properly dimension a 3D drawing, but handily once the computer has it in 3D it can knock out your orthographic projections for you to dimension and give to all and sundry.

23 minutes ago, bizzard said:

That's nuffin, Ford used to build lorries in 4D AND 6D, they looked quite normal.

Why did that have me in stitches for 2 minutes? It's a joke about trucks built before I was even born...

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16 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm curious now. When I worked in a machine shop the last thing we expected or needed was a 3D representation. A set of 2D third angle  projection drawings were perfectly easy to read.

I can't imagine why a competent fabricator would need or want a 3D drawing, or how one would go about adding dimension lines and dimensions complete with tolerances to a 3D representation. 

I definitely feel a complete dinosaur typing all that!!

Indeed, when I was working, only 4 years ago, 2D 3rd angle projection drawings were used for fabrication,  and 3D CAD was used to for coordination of services, to  check that everything would physically fit in the space provided and to give the client a feel for what he was getting for his money.

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have done some proper drawings on paper, but knocked this up just to give people and idea of what I was thinking. 

ramp to tow-path obviously goes vertical on a hinge,  but the flat plate beside also goes vertical against the forward bulkhead.  once the bike is wheeled on to the I-beam and strapped down the I-beam will then rotate forward to free up some space on the bow deck

 

Will endeavour to do proper drawing with the software suggested, and once complete will post a link for anyone else that might want to use then.

bike_ramp.JPG

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