Liverpool

[larryjc]

Been here a couple of days now and apart from kids throwing stones at us from a bridge at Litherland and the bigget amount of plastic I've ever seen on my propellor, I have to say its pretty fantastic.  There's even a steam fair on the dock to keep us amused (including two steam narrow boats).  But why is the place so empty????   I've counted and there are jettys for up to 56 boats (obviously less if broadbeams are using them) and  the grand total of boats in here is 14 - what a waste.  Out of curiosity I went to my CRT booking for the basin and although there are plenty of slots next week, looking at the availability today one would think the place is full.  On top of all this the shore power is free and CRT pay several staff to help us through locks that are quite easily self operated and all for a grand total of 6 boats a day (why?).

Surely this place should at least pay for itself? - CRT must be losing hand over fist operating it.  A local told me it used to always be full until they reduced the free period from 14 to 7 days but frankly I would have thought at least a small nominal charge would not put people off and with a bit of forward thinking and dare I say it 'management' it could be much better for both CRT and the boater alike.  I have to say its been a bucket list item on my boating list for some time and despite all this I'm really glad we came.

[pearley]

The electric used to be on a card. When we were there for the winter of 2013/14 about a third of the pillars were giving free power and CRT visited several times to resolve it then decided it was cheaper to make them all free rather than replace the faulty card readers. (Despite they should have has many working readers from the recently redundant ones displaced by the change to Smart metering at mooring sites)

Quite agree there should be a nominal charge. The provision of the pontoons must have cost many hundreds of thousands of pounds let alone the free power. They charge at Llangollen, why not Liverpool.

And why only 6 boats a day? When left the winter mooring we were one of 3 narrowboats and 3 widebeams, so 5 locking.

And I still don't understand why the link is closed from 1 November to 31 March. It could easily be operated in a similar way to Harecastle and Standedge by giving a minimum of 48 hours notice.

[Mike Todd]

Moving off topic title: where do you think this should end? Charges for all special features eg Anderton Lift, Stanedge Tunnel . . . 

In addition there are plenty of stretches with low levels of usage but where there would be a howl of anguish of CaRT sought to abandon them. Do they make a 'loss'? Surely, since the system receives substantial public subsidies, all canals are making a 'loss'?

[larryjc]

I personally don't object to paying for a service, so yes why not a few quid to use Anderton (next on my list)  But thats not really the point I was trying to make.  This basin facility in Liverpool is actually quite new and clearly a great deal of money has been spent on it to make it as good as it is.  And then it seems to me that the prodecures that CRT have put in place actively discourage people using it and absolutly ensure they get worst value for money.

[BEngo]

Maybe it is quiet at the moment because the only way in is to come from Leeds.   People will also be wary of booking until Peel actually reopen the Bridgwater.

I too don't understand the movement restrictions.  There does not appear to be a water issue and the capacity of the Stanley Dock flight is greater than 6 boats a day, though I suspect CART staff would still need to open up, close up and lock up to  prevent water loss or 'level adjustments' by the local scallies.

I see no reason to charge for anything except power or long-term moorings.  The link and the facilities were not funded by boaters or BW-Funding for the work came from the NWRDA, (50%) with the rest coming from Europe via the ERDF Objective 1 programme.  I'm not sure who owns the pontoons and thus will be liable for their replacement costs.  Peel/MDHC own the docks.

 

N

[larryjc]

Didn't realise who paid and didn't realise it wasn't CRT.  And I'm sure the Bridgewatger closure is having an effect - but why then does the internet booking system give virtually no availablity for a clearly empty basin?  When I checked my booking today there are apparently only two days this month where I could book a departure which infers the plade is full up - no its not!!  As I said before its as though the system is actively designed to discourage people coming here.

 

Edited May 6, 2017 by larryjc

[dogless]

It was virtually full throughout our visit.

Enjoy the peace and quiet whilst you can.

Unusual to hear complaints the system isn't busy enough.

Liverpool by boat is excellent. 

Rog

[pearley]

39 minutes ago, BEngo said:

  Peel/MDHC own the docks.

 

N

And yet if you walk along the seafront, the No Fishing signs all have the CRT logo on them.

[Mike Cole]

Peel may own the docks (?) but it is CRT who look after the day to day running of the dock area. The local CRT staff are very helpful.

[Martin Megson]

One reason for the lack of boats could be the current closure of the Bridgewater canal which limits access to those on the L&L. 

[David Mack]

On Saturday, May 06, 2017 at 17:00, BEngo said:

Peel/MDHC own the docks.

Peel/MDHC own the Northern Docks at Liverpool (i.e. north of Pier Head). The Southern Docks were transferred to Merseyside Development Corporation in the 1980s ( I think) and on the demise of MDC the water space was transferred to BW, now CRT.  BW's ownership of both the Stanley Docks flight and the Southern Docks was a strong driver to connect the two with the Liverpool Link.

[Mike Todd]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Peel/MDHC own the Northern Docks at Liverpool (i.e. north of Pier Head). The Southern Docks were transferred to Merseyside Development Corporation in the 1980s ( I think) and on the demise of MDC the water space was transferred to BW, now CRT.  BW's ownership of both the Stanley Docks flight and the Southern Docks was a strong driver to connect the two with the Liverpool Link.

It was, I recall, significant in a recent seizure case.

[bizzard]

Pierhead is worth a visit.

[Pete of Ebor]

I thought the main limitation on boat numbers was the need to open Wango Lane swingbridge. It's a busy road which I understand causes a backlog when opened which in turn could delay emergency vehicles. Only CART operatives can open it. Only opened twice a day to allow a max of 6 boats through.

[bizzard]

Weirs me shiert, I can't find me shert anyweir. Weirs me shiert. Its twenty five past five and I've got to go ta werk and I can't find me shiert anyweir, WEIRS ME SHIERT!!!!

Edited May 8, 2017 by bizzard

[furnessvale]

3 hours ago, Pete of Ebor said:

I thought the main limitation on boat numbers was the need to open Wango Lane swingbridge. It's a busy road which I understand causes a backlog when opened which in turn could delay emergency vehicles. Only CART operatives can open it. Only opened twice a day to allow a max of 6 boats through.

Given that CRT staff open the bridge, I would have thought the arrival of an emergency vehicle on blues and twos would be a sufficient enough incentive for them to close the bridge and then reopen for however many boats were waiting.

George ex nb Alton retired

[StephenA]

8 hours ago, Mike Cole said:

Peel may own the docks (?) but it is CRT who look after the day to day running of the dock area. The local CRT staff are very helpful.

They were brilliant when we went through.

The limit on the number of boats because of the swing bridge does seem a little excessive.....

[Profzarkov]

Chatting with the CRT in Stanley dock (do go up an say Hello - he also sells BW keys and is very informative) - they own the water!

The Stanley flight is very critical - if there was an "incident" and the water was let out, it would drain back to Wigan!

The paddle gear all have weird "special" long handled windlasses, so not operable by us (unless you'd got one of them).

Last time we were there and after we'd left the Peel pumps failed - they pump water up into the dock system - my friends only just managed to get out - carving a groove in Sid's ditch!

Yes, it should be better managed but we did enjoy a good week, shame it wasn't two weeks.