Flags on Boats

[tired old pirate]

We can't stop just when we are having fun.

 

The Merchant Shipping Act contains some other good stuff!

 

It defines a "United Kingdom Ship" as a British Ship that has been registered in accordance with part II (so far as narrowboats are concerned, this broadly means being on the SSR), and goes on to say...

 

105. The master of any United Kingdom ship may cause any person on board the ship to be put under restraint if and for so long as it appears to him necessary or expedient in the interest of safety or for the preservation of good order or discipline on board the ship.

Not, that could come in handy.

 

Wow, does that mean I can invite my ex wife for a visit and legaly lock her in the toilet?

[carlt]

"4.—(1) If any of the following colours, namely—

(a) any distinctive national colours except—

(i) the red ensign,

(ii) the Union flag (commonly known as the Union Jack) with a white border, or

(iii) any colours authorised or confirmed under section 2(3)(; or

( any colours usually worn by Her Majesty's ships or resembling those of Her Majesty, or

© the pendant usually carried by Her Majesty's ships or any pendant resembling that pendant,

are hoisted on board any British ship without warrant from Her Majesty or from the Secretary of State, the master of the ship, or the owner of the ship (if on board), and every other person hoisting them shall be guilty of an offence."

 

Section 4 actually allows any colours to be flown except any distinctive national colours or those reserved for the monarch, so the only folk breaking any laws are the Johnny Foreigner hirers who fly their rags from our british hireboats, and stupiod royalists or rebellious republicans. It does not say nothing can be flown and specifically says Geri's dress is ok. This obviously is intended to allow for signalling, but is the loophole any normal, otherwise law-abiding citizen can utilize.

 

What a waste of energy!

 

Edited to say: and the 'bracket b' smileys just highlight how ridiculous this debate is.

 

It defines a "United Kingdom Ship" as a British Ship that has been registered in accordance with part II (so far as narrowboats are concerned, this broadly means being on the SSR)

 

So, because the vast majority of narrow boats are not on the SSR (mine certainly aren't), the rules do not apply.

Edited June 11, 2007 by carlt

[mayalld]

Wow, does that mean I can invite my ex wife for a visit and legaly lock her in the toilet?

 

 

If it is necessary to preserve good order.

[tired old pirate]

If it is necessary to preserve good order.

 

I am off home to build a brigg.......

[mayalld]

"4.—(1) If any of the following colours, namely—

(a) any distinctive national colours except—

(i) the red ensign,

(ii) the Union flag (commonly known as the Union Jack) with a white border, or

(iii) any colours authorised or confirmed under section 2(3)( ; or

( any colours usually worn by Her Majesty's ships or resembling those of Her Majesty, or

© the pendant usually carried by Her Majesty's ships or any pendant resembling that pendant,

are hoisted on board any British ship without warrant from Her Majesty or from the Secretary of State, the master of the ship, or the owner of the ship (if on board), and every other person hoisting them shall be guilty of an offence."

 

Section 4 actually allows any colours to be flown except any distinctive national colours or those reserved for the monarch, so the only folk breaking any laws are the Johnny Foreigner hirers who fly their rags from our british hireboats, and stupiod royalists or rebellious republicans. It does not say nothing can be flown and specifically says Geri's dress is ok. This obviously is intended to allow for signalling, but is the loophole any normal, otherwise law-abiding citizen can utilize.

 

I suspect that the union jack dress would fall foul of the "resembling those of her majesty"

 

So, because the vast majority of narrow boats are not on the SSR (mine certainly aren't), the rules do not apply.

 

The rules that allow you to arrest and restrain people don't. The rules on flags certainly do.

[tired old pirate]

Look can I lock her in or cant I?....!

[mayalld]

Look can I lock her in or cant I?....!

 

As long as you are on the SSR (£12.00 for 5 years), then yes you can lock her in!

[ChrisPy]

bring back the birch

[Hair Bear Bunch]

That's all very well, but consider this. I recently rounded a bend on our canal to find an empty rib, flying a 'Diver Down'. Very odd. Hard reverse, sounded the horn, nothing. Now stopped, tried banging on the hull, two sillohettes appeared from under the rib! They pulled the boat to one side and waved us on. At the next wharf there was an army lorry waiting for them. Heaven knows what they were up to...

Signal flags do have their uses, I wonder what a hire boat would have done?

[Jason Wilson and Family]

I'm not breaking the law if I fly the Union Jack upside down.

 

Actually if the laws apply, you wouldn't be breaking the law anyway. Flying an ensign upside down is a distress signal.

 

 

Here's the wikipedia piece about the flags and their usage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_ensigns

 

Oh, and...

[steve7a3]

I know this is an old thread but I couldn't help noticing something.

Inspired by this thread I was perusing the International signal flag meanings on wikipedia, as one does, and it occurred to me, that if you were a French national ship in distress, you would have a problem (apart from just being in distress, of course).

 

If you chose to fly the Tricolour inverted to signify your distress, you would effectively be flying Tango and saying "Keep away from me".

 

Makes me wonder if this wasn't influenced as some sort of cynical, jocular move by early British naval types.

Edited May 17, 2016 by steve7a3

[homer2911]

I know this is an old thread but I couldn't help noticing something.

Inspired by this thread I was perusing the International signal flag meanings on wikipedia, as one does, and it occurred to me, that if you were a French national ship in distress, you would have a problem (apart from just being in distress, of course).

 

If you chose to fly the Tricolour inverted to signify your distress, you would effectively be flying Tango and saying "Keep away from me".

 

Makes me wonder if this wasn't influenced as some sort of cynical, jocular move by early British naval types.

Interesting - however I have never seen a French national ship, in distress or otherwise, in 24 years of cruising British canals :-)

[tidal]

Why?

If I wanted to fly my Union Jack boxers, upside down from my boat pole (I hesitate to say 'shaft) what's the harm.

 

And all those pseudo Captain Birdseyes who fly the incorrect flags are put on this earth to raise a chuckle (or slight sneer). Where would we be without them?

 

Edited to say: I hasten to add that I possess no UJ boxers (or boxers of any design)

It could be regarded as a distress signal

Yes I know it's old but I couldn't resist

[nebulae]

As I understand it,if you dip your ensign to a naval vessel,they are obliged to dip theirs in response .I gather this is a tradition that is considered by naval types to be important. Cant quite imagine a situation where my little narrowboat would be mixing it with a naval vessel,but watching some chap racing down the stern deck of a great big grey thing would massively increase my sense of self importance.

[mayalld]

As I understand it,if you dip your ensign to a naval vessel,they are obliged to dip theirs in response .I gather this is a tradition that is considered by naval types to be important. Cant quite imagine a situation where my little narrowboat would be mixing it with a naval vessel,but watching some chap racing down the stern deck of a great big grey thing would massively increase my sense of self importance.

 

Been there, done that.

 

Many years ago, went for a day out on the lumpy stuff with a mate, under the bows of HMS Invincible, dipped the ensign, and sure enough a body was seen scurrying across the deck to return the salute.

[Tony Brooks]

I have been told the return salute from French naval vessels is likely to consist of two raised figures.

[Sea Dog]

 

Been there, done that.

 

Many years ago, went for a day out on the lumpy stuff with a mate, under the bows of HMS Invincible, dipped the ensign, and sure enough a body was seen scurrying across the deck to return the salute.

Ah,how joy sprang in our hearts when some (insert your own descriptive word or phrase here) in a yacht did that! It was particularly amusing when entering or leaving a busy harbour whilst constrained by draught.

[tidal]

Interesting - however I have never seen a French national ship, in distress or otherwise, in 24 years of cruising British canals :-)

I have

But I was on a very big canal up in the very far north amongst our more reluctant members of the Union

[howardang]

Ah,how joy sprang in our hearts when some (insert your own descriptive word or phrase here) in a yacht did that! It was particularly amusing when entering or leaving a busy harbour whilst constrained by draught.

On the other hand, it's good to hear that the courtesies are still being observed, and fortunately the Andrew has plenty of spare hands to answer the dip!?

 

Howard

Edited May 19, 2016 by howardang

[mayalld]

Ah,how joy sprang in our hearts when some (insert your own descriptive word or phrase here) in a yacht did that! It was particularly amusing when entering or leaving a busy harbour whilst constrained by draught.

 

She was at anchor.

[Sea Dog]

On the other hand, it's good to hear that the courtesies are still being observed, and fortunately the Andrew has plenty of spare hands to answer the dip!

Howard

Well of course it is, and nowhere more so than the RN where traditions abound, many for very good reason. You will, I feel sure, have noticed the wink. Your understanding of naval manpower levels may be a little out of date though!

 

Incidentally, the Army also have many fine traditions and the RAF.... have habits.

[howardang]

Well of course it is, and nowhere more so than the RN where traditions abound, many for very good reason. You will, I feel sure, have noticed the wink. Your understanding of naval manpower levels may be a little out of date though!

 

Incidentally, the Army also have many fine traditions and the RAF.... have habits.

 

I also added a smiley but for some reason it unfortunately didn't appear! Having watched the news this morning about the two new aircraft carriers, I hope the Navy is able to find enough matelots to crew them when they take to the seas in the near future

 

Howard

 

Howard