Boat stuck in Gosty tunnel

[Sea Dog]

15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Although according to our boat builder, you don't need to bother steering through it as the boat will rattle through without any risk of superstructure touching.

My boat builder (Simon Piper) can't claim this!  

I wonder if Steve Hudson knew about the little kick at the basin end, which we did, and yet we still now have leather patches on the rear upper corners of the cratch cover! Mind you, we do have very good(?) internal headroom.

[ditchcrawler]

Atlas does the run quite often towing a butty.

[Richard T]

We had a similar experience many years ago in a hire boat. We got a railway sleeper stuck between the side of the boat and the tunnel. Only after some time did we get free by using the gang plank to batter the sleeper under water where the taper of the hull freed the boat and we managed to get the sleeper into the front well deck of the boat. A very frighteneing experience. If we had not got the boat free I was prepared to walk out to the nearest entrance and call the emergency services - this would not have been a nice thing to do.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

13 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Or even gorsts.

Anyway, we draw 2'8" static and I don't recall it being particularly slow, but inevitably fairly slow due to the need for the water to get past around the boat - the tunnel is pretty narrow. IMO with the clearance issues, it's probably not a tunnel you would want to romp through! Although according to our boat builder, you don't need to bother steering through it as the boat will rattle through without any risk of superstructure touching. I didn't want to try it though! But it would be interesting to set it off in gear and then retire inside until the outbreak of daylight!

Not sure about none of the superstructure touching, the first time I went through Gorsty I rather unwisely left the chimney on since the entrance looks nice and high. At that time I didn't know about the two very low sections inside the tunnel and when we reached them, by dragging the right hand side against the tunnel wall I was missing ripping the chimney off by about an inch. Sadly by the time I'd realised just how low it was the bit of boat with the chimney on was already into the low bit and there wasn't space between the boat and the roof to go down the side of the boat to take the chimney off.

On the subject of the couple who got stuck for 20 hours, I rather tend to wonder exactly where in the tunnel they were. If they were in the low sections I can see that getting along the side of the boat to see what had jammed you may be a bit of a problem. When we came back through Gorsty in March those logs were there and soon after entering the tunnel one wedged between the prop and the hull bringing the engine to a dead stop and jamming solid. We managed to pole/leg the boat back to the mouth of the tunnel where the mooring pin mallet made short work of shifting the jammed log. Given how slow you have to go through Gorsty, even in the best of circumstances, I find it unusual that they had enough speed up to jam the boat solidly on a log between the boat and the tunnel wall. I suppose that if they caught the log in the first instance and then tried to force their way through they could jam it fairly solidly, but it seems that Hawne Basin were able to come along and tow them out so I tend to wonder why their own engine in reverse, along with a bit of boat rocking, wouldn't have done the same.

[ditchcrawler]

27 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Not sure about none of the superstructure touching, the first time I went through Gorsty I rather unwisely left the chimney on since the entrance looks nice and high. At that time I didn't know about the two very low sections inside the tunnel and when we reached them, by dragging the right hand side against the tunnel wall I was missing ripping the chimney off by about an inch. Sadly by the time I'd realised just how low it was the bit of boat with the chimney on was already into the low bit and there wasn't space between the boat and the roof to go down the side of the boat to take the chimney off.

On the subject of the couple who got stuck for 20 hours, I rather tend to wonder exactly where in the tunnel they were. If they were in the low sections I can see that getting along the side of the boat to see what had jammed you may be a bit of a problem. When we came back through Gorsty in March those logs were there and soon after entering the tunnel one wedged between the prop and the hull bringing the engine to a dead stop and jamming solid. We managed to pole/leg the boat back to the mouth of the tunnel where the mooring pin mallet made short work of shifting the jammed log. Given how slow you have to go through Gorsty, even in the best of circumstances, I find it unusual that they had enough speed up to jam the boat solidly on a log between the boat and the tunnel wall. I suppose that if they caught the log in the first instance and then tried to force their way through they could jam it fairly solidly, but it seems that Hawne Basin were able to come along and tow them out so I tend to wonder why their own engine in reverse, along with a bit of boat rocking, wouldn't have done the same.

I would suggest that Nick's boat has more tumblehome than yours.

I got jammed in the second from top lock on The Crow about 3 weeks ago. The hull and the lock side makes a nice gentle wedge. Lots of log hammering, boat rocking, stern wiggling, reverse power plus flushing got us out after about three quarters of an hour. I wouldn't have wanted to been in that situation in a tunnel.

[Captain Pegg]

13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Atlas does the run quite often towing a butty.

And they don't run aground or have to stop to clear the prop routinely either. See Laurence Hogg's comments on the Tucana thread for clues as to why. There are scours and/or obstacles in many bridge holes. You can't approach it in the same way as the more popular canals even in a modern boat without asking for trouble.

I have never been through the tunnel faster than 1.5mph and most times it's closer to 1mph on average. I struggle to believe anyone can go through without a significant reduction in speed since there simply isn't enough room to displace water.

JP

[Horace42]

Never occurred to me it could happen. Although with hindsight it is an obvious risk.  Frightening - if me, enough to make me give up boating in fear of it happening again

[Dave_P]

A couple of years ago, I kayaked through the Dudley tunnel with a friend, followed by the electric tug.  For the return trip we took the option of going on the tug, while the steerer told us things he knew about the tunnel.

He told us that, a few years ago, a hire boat had gone into the tunnel, from the Parkhead end, ignoring warning signs and the gauge.  It had a European family with children on board (Dutch?  German?  I can't remember).  They got stuck inside the tunnel and were stuck in there for a "few days" until the next through tunnel trip found them, in quite a bad state.

Does anyone know anything more about this?

 

 

[nicknorman]

5 hours ago, Dave_P said:

A couple of years ago, I kayaked through the Dudley tunnel with a friend, followed by the electric tug.  For the return trip we took the option of going on the tug, while the steerer told us things he knew about the tunnel.

He told us that, a few years ago, a hire boat had gone into the tunnel, from the Parkhead end, ignoring warning signs and the gauge.  It had a European family with children on board (Dutch?  German?  I can't remember).  They got stuck inside the tunnel and were stuck in there for a "few days" until the next through tunnel trip found them, in quite a bad state.

Does anyone know anything more about this?

 

 

Sounds like an urban myth to me! The gauging at the Parkhead end is solid, not dangly things that could be pushed out of the way.

[Dave_P]

45 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Sounds like an urban myth to me! The gauging at the Parkhead end is solid, not dangly things that could be pushed out of the way.

I know what you mean but has the gauge always been solid? The guy had been volunteering on the electric tugs for many years so would presumably know what he's talking about. 

[David Mack]

8 hours ago, Dave_P said:

A couple of years ago, I kayaked through the Dudley tunnel with a friend, followed by the electric tug.  For the return trip we took the option of going on the tug, while the steerer told us things he knew about the tunnel.

He told us that, a few years ago, a hire boat had gone into the tunnel, from the Parkhead end, ignoring warning signs and the gauge.  It had a European family with children on board (Dutch?  German?  I can't remember).  They got stuck inside the tunnel and were stuck in there for a "few days" until the next through tunnel trip found them, in quite a bad state.

Does anyone know anything more about this?

 

 

I remember hearing a similar tale, complete with the hirers being from overseas, some twenty or thirty years ago. So it sounds more like it has achieved urban myth status.

[Dave_P]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

I remember hearing a similar tale, complete with the hirers being from overseas, some twenty or thirty years ago. So it sounds more like it has achieved urban myth status.

Possibly, however I can well imagine this happening if there wasn't always a gauge. Perhaps that's why the gauge was installed. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

17 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I would suggest that Nick's boat has more tumblehome than yours.

I got jammed in the second from top lock on The Crow about 3 weeks ago. The hull and the lock side makes a nice gentle wedge. Lots of log hammering, boat rocking, stern wiggling, reverse power plus flushing got us out after about three quarters of an hour. I wouldn't have wanted to been in that situation in a tunnel.

Did you become jammed motoring into the lock? or when you started to fill/empty it? If the latter I can fully understand how you become seriously jammed since as the water drops you get the full weight of the boat jamming the obstruction in position. When motoring into a lock however I don't think I go quick enough to wedge that badly. I accept that the boat shape makes a good wedge but then using the same force in reverse should (theoretically) release it.

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Did you become jammed motoring into the lock? or when you started to fill/empty it? If the latter I can fully understand how you become seriously jammed since as the water drops you get the full weight of the boat jamming the obstruction in position. When motoring into a lock however I don't think I go quick enough to wedge that badly. I accept that the boat shape makes a good wedge but then using the same force in reverse should (theoretically) release it.

Well I have had it happen twice now and it was as I slipped, not motored in.  

[Wanderer Vagabond]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well I have had it happen twice now and it was as I slipped, not motored in.  

Looks like I've just been lucky then

[Captain Pegg]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well I have had it happen twice now and it was as I slipped, not motored in.  

The science doesn't really change if you are motoring or not. It's simply a function of speed and mass. Essentially a narrowboat traveling at the slowest of feasible speeds will have an order of magnitude more momentum than you could create by swinging the heaviest of heavy duty sledgehammers as fast as humanly possible. It's not possible to avoid such an incident by careful entry into confined channels; only by stopping and clearing the obstacle if you see it ahead which is nigh on impossible in a tunnel.

JP

Edited May 1, 2017 by Captain Pegg
Last sentence was grammatically incorrect and didn't wish to upset the grammar police.

[WotEver]

33 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Last sentence was grammatically incorrect and didn't wish to upset the grammar police

How about a comma after "ahead"? 

[Rob-M]

Getting the boat wedged at slow speeds is easily achieved especially if the item compresses slightly. My dad got stuck in Kings Norton guillotine on a tyre, the boat was absolutely solid as the tyre compressed down tightly with the weight of the boat. The only way to free it was by pulling the boat backwards with the next boat that arrived.

Joe Hollingshead told me of the time he got wedged in Harecastle tunnel before the towpath was fully removed, he entered the tunnel and went in the cabin to make his tea letting the boat go through on its own but it jammed on a section of towpath. He just sat inside and had his tea until the next boat came through the tunnel and pulled him free.

[sirweste]

19 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Did you become jammed motoring into the lock? or when you started to fill/empty it? If the latter I can fully understand how you become seriously jammed since as the water drops you get the full weight of the boat jamming the obstruction in position. When motoring into a lock however I don't think I go quick enough to wedge that badly. I accept that the boat shape makes a good wedge but then using the same force in reverse should (theoretically) release it.

You're forgetting static friction, it will require more force to release it. Especially considering the additional friction created by the "wedge" being elastic.

[pearley]

19 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Did you become jammed motoring into the lock? or when you started to fill/empty it? If the latter I can fully understand how you become seriously jammed since as the water drops you get the full weight of the boat jamming the obstruction in position. When motoring into a lock however I don't think I go quick enough to wedge that badly. I accept that the boat shape makes a good wedge but then using the same force in reverse should (theoretically) release it.

I had just emptied the top lock for Harnser when I heard all the noise as he attempted to free himself. This was a very large hit of timber, quite waterlogged and with a bit sticking out so, like an iceberg, only part of it was above the water. It had jammed the boat about 20 foot back from the bow and took a lot of work to get it out. The hero was the super fit pedestrian who was standing on the log, beating it down with his foot. When it eventually was freed he scooped the log from the water and threw it into the reeds in in pond opposite

[Dave_P]

15 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Getting the boat wedged at slow speeds is easily achieved especially if the item compresses slightly. My dad got stuck in Kings Norton guillotine on a tyre, the boat was absolutely solid as the tyre compressed down tightly with the weight of the boat. The only way to free it was by pulling the boat backwards with the next boat that arrived.

Joe Hollingshead told me of the time he got wedged in Harecastle tunnel before the towpath was fully removed, he entered the tunnel and went in the cabin to make his tea letting the boat go through on its own but it jammed on a section of towpath. He just sat inside and had his tea until the next boat came through the tunnel and pulled him free.

A naked flame in a tunnel?

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, pearley said:

I had just emptied the top lock for Harnser when I heard all the noise as he attempted to free himself. This was a very large hit of timber, quite waterlogged and with a bit sticking out so, like an iceberg, only part of it was above the water. It had jammed the boat about 20 foot back from the bow and took a lot of work to get it out. The hero was the super fit pedestrian who was standing on the log, beating it down with his foot. When it eventually was freed he scooped the log from the water and threw it into the reeds in in pond opposite

Hi Pearley, I didn't know it was you. How he reached down and picked it out of the water before throwing it I don't know, he didn't look that big and muscular. This was the lump of wood.

[ditchcrawler]

By the way, this sterling  gentlemen went ahead and set all the locks for me, saved us a load of work.

[Rob-M]

8 hours ago, Dave_P said:

A naked flame in a tunnel?

As it was in his working boat days he was probably using his Epping Stove.

[Dave_P]

9 hours ago, Rob-M said:

As it was in his working boat days he was probably using his Epping Stove.

Does that not have a naked flame?