Excited and nervous

[dm6045]

Hi all again,

if you have seen my previous post youll know that we have had a run of bad luck for the past four years that weve been looking to buy a boat but things seem to have temporarily fallen in to place for us and are now negotiatingon a boat that we ve absolutely fallen in love with and more importantly is what we need (wich is unfortunately abit thin on the ground due to needing a combined office / music room/ art studio space). Anyway we have been putting offers in for the last week but the broker has indormed us that the seller is not wishing to negotiate more than 500 off the asking price as they reduced it to 56,500 a month ago due to it being on at 59k since December. (Inmho it was never worth that anyway judging from hints others we have spoken too).

so thats the excited part now for the nervous part our current max budget annoyingly fell last month due to an unforseen circumstance and is now at just over 56k now 1 the boat needs to be blacked (last done 3 years ago) so we know thats a forthcoming expense but if the survey pulls anything up then we may have to walk away if we give them the 56 they want as we will just not have the funds for it. Very kindly Trevor whitling whom we have been in contact with for the past 4 years Has offered to pop down this afternoon and view it for us to see if there is any warning bells. So bassically getting to the point I know that sellers dont have to renegotiate after the survey but do you think it would be worth making the final and max offer stating that we would need to negotiate anything more than x that the survey brings up? The broker knows that position but that way the seller will formally know our postion and if they arent prepared for that then we can walk and save the survey money. My gut is that they wont negotiate as the impression we have got is that they want that fixed amount more than they want to sell soon.

would that be an unreasonable request or should we walk now...

sorry for being so longwinded i never was good at being to the point lol.

 

thanks

[dmr]

If its the boat you want, and Trevor finds nothing seriously wrong and does not feel it is seriously overpriced then go for. Its a sellers market at the moment so negotiating big discounts is a bit optimistic..

If you have a proper survey then the surveyor will find things wrong, or at least things not quite right, that's his job, but unless they are serious or urgent then you can live with them.

...............Dave

[Victor Vectis]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

If its the boat you want, and Trevor finds nothing seriously wrong and does not feel it is seriously overpriced then go for. Its a sellers market at the moment so negotiating big discounts is a bit optimistic..

I was going to say this too.

[Neil2]

My view is it's not a good idea to blow all your budget on the purchase price, whatever the surveyor says.  Are you saying that £56k is every penny you have or does your budget include an extra amount put by for contingencies?  it should, even at £56.000. 

[dm6045]

Thanks for the replies i should have explained better we do have a contingentcy fund left for the inevitable various bits but for instance if we give them the 56k they want and the survey pulls up 3-4k of work and they wont renegotiate we cant do it because that would then wipe us out ideally we were looking to pay about 55k to keep a bigger contingency fund on top of immediate blacking etc... I know that the chances are that the survey would throw something up its a 16 year old boat so wont be perfect. But the sellers attitude strikes me very much as one of these people that wont believe anything that the survey says anyway i may be wrong its just the impression we have gotten over the past week

on the plus side found out today we're not in any competition with anyone else as everyone but us that they have shown round since december has said it was too traditional in feel and the office space was too big of a waste of space (the size makes it perfect for us) so at least we have breathing room to think and re calculate for the 50th time this week lol

[Neil2]

Sounds to me like you should hold keep your nerve...

It's all very well this talk of a sellers market but that only really applies to "mass appeal" boats.  Anything that's a little bit quirky or out of the ordinary is going to be in a very different market sometimes only appealing to a handful of potential purchasers.  

There are still a lot of boats that struggle to find buyers.       

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Neil2
grammar

[dm6045]

5 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Sounds to me like you should hold keep your nerve...

It's all very well this talk of a sellers market but that only really applies to "mass appeal" boats.  Anything that's a little bit quirky or out of the ordinary is going to be in a very different market sometimes only appealing to a handful of potential purchasers.  

There are still a lot of boats that struggle to find buyers.       

 

Thats exactly what the broker said if it was a 57ft reverse layout with dinette and hi tech kitchen it would fly away for the asking price but as it is we are the only that have said we liked it but they said the problem is the seller wont even begin to discuss that fact with them as they told them that when they put in an offer of 54.5k. they have said to us they thought they would go for it given the circumstances 

[WotEver]

As has been said, keep your nerve and be prepared to walk away. If the survey throws up £4K of work then the price needs to come down unless the seller is prepared to do the work prior to sale. If the survey comes up clean other than a few hundred quid of bits and pieces then that's a different matter. 

[cuthound]

I would wait and see what Trevor Whitling finds.

If anything needs repair or replacement use it to justify your reduced offer. If nothing shows up during his inspection then be prepared to pay the £56k.

Edited April 10, 2017 by cuthound
Cross posted with WotEver.

[Rickent]

I would offer 56k subject to survey. If the survey shows 4k of work then either the seller drops his price accordingly or puts everything right before sale. If he is not prepared to do this i would walk away.

Hold your nerve and i think he will eventually play ball.

[dm6045]

Hmm well trevor had a look and we wont be proceeding a list of things that need doing and from what we have now heard lets just say that the sellers are not exactly willing to take the brokers advice read into that what you will and it seems like even though it is right for us it looks as though our offers were already very generous and the purchase process would probably turn out to be more hassel than its worth given what seems to be the sellers mindset.

 

lucky escape... Maybe... Oh well there goes this summer on the cut gone as time to wait for the next boat its been 4 years so im sure another season wont make much difference it seems remarkable that all the boats that are suitable seem to have arsey sellers (maybe its just us although as far as im aware we have never put in a really cheeky offer) or are complete wrecks. Oh life would be so easy without the need for an office cum music room cum art room but hey ho we persevere.

[dmr]

5 hours ago, Neil2 said:

Sounds to me like you should hold keep your nerve...

It's all very well this talk of a sellers market but that only really applies to "mass appeal" boats.  Anything that's a little bit quirky or out of the ordinary is going to be in a very different market sometimes only appealing to a handful of potential purchasers.  

There are still a lot of boats that struggle to find buyers.       

 

The other side of this coin is that if the boat is unusual (or with anything unusual) the seller can wait knowing that sooner or later a buyer will come along who really really wants this unusual boat. It happened to us, it was an usual boat, they wanted too much money, we wanted the boat. But then, before the boat I owned an unusual house and I did exactly the same thing.

..............Dave

[Richard10002]

Why give up on the season just because a boat isn't right in March? You could find a bought and have it bought by June if you stuck at it.

[dm6045]

5 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Why give up on the season just because a boat isn't right in March? You could find a bought and have it bought by June if you stuck at it.

Only because what we need is so specific that they seem to appear like clockwork on a 5-6monthly basis.

but we are going to speak to the broker and get them to pass on the comments that trevor made and see what happens then say that if they want us too then we will make another offer but it will be lower than the last as tbh various sources that we trust have now all told us in a more roundabout way that what the boat was valued at by both a surveyor and the broker and what they want for it are quite different things its a shame because she would have made us a lovely boat and we wouod have been willing to put things right over the next year or two but we are not going to pay more than its worth and more importantly more than we could afford to be able to rectify the problems 

[mrsmelly]

12 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Why give up on the season just because a boat isn't right in March? You could find a bought and have it bought by June if you stuck at it.

I started looking for a boat on a monday evening two years ago. I put 10 down in a short list that same evening. The next day at elleven am I went to look at this boat and at 11.20am twenty minutes later I paid for it in full. I was busy for the next two days so I went back on friday and drove it away. Thats the beauty of boats unlike houses there need be no paperwork crap, it realy is that simple if you want it to be.

[chubby]

At the risk of sounding a shade argumentative i would ask if you have , during your four search , considered the possibility that your " wants " are a bit on the optomistic side ?

BOAT - saloon , dinette ( maybe ) , kitchen , bog , shower / bath , bed , engine . 

99.9 % of boats will contain the above . Consequently your perfect boat is the remaining 0.1 % . 

An idea - why not alter needs . Or buy a boat and alter it instead because your wants are in all honesty unlikely to pop up that often .

Bearing in mind how long its taken you might want to reconsider that boat youve just had surveyed cos it may be yonks before another similar boat comes along .

WTF is a music room anyway ? i have visions of people sitting on chairs playing the cello - ive genuinely no idea . My music room is my saloon . My office is my dinette . 

Either stop being picky , buy a boat the right length and convert it or buy this one just surveyed . Otherwise buy a different house / caravan / mobile home . 

Personally i think youre wishlist is unrealistic , but i wish u luck - i hope find what youre looking for 

[She25]

13 hours ago, dm6045 said:

office cum music room cum art room

Could these three not be combined into the space of any regular second bedroom on a regular boat? You could get something lower than 56k, and spend the surplus having the space redesigned to suit your needs?

[dm6045]

I take your comments and yes they are optemistic however they do exist and we are happy to wait tbh the reason that we have not been able to proceed with most of them that have suited us is down to a rather long run of bad luck in personal circumstances over the 4 years.  And it just so happens that the few we have been able to proceed with have been either consirably over priced for the condition (in more knowledgeable peoples than our opinion) or the survey has thrown up too much essential work for us and we have had bad luck with sellers then not wishing to renegotiate even when on 2 we offered the asking price.

 

yes second bedroom conversions have always been considered and are very much an option because we know that may have to go down that route in order to get a space that works as no second hand boat will ever be entirely perfect there will always be something you would change because after all your buying something that in the beggiining was someone elses dream not yours.

it is a requirement as we need the extra space to be able to shut work away from the rest of the boat (unfortunately when self employed and doing the majority of work from home you cant leave work at the front door amd we have spent to long living places where the workspace is the livingspace and that just doesnt suit us. So ultimately we wouldnt get as much from the boat if it didnt have it. And if waiting is what it takes then thats what happens. Theres no race after all isnt life on the cut about slowing down lmfao.

[Ex Brummie]

You could look for something like the leatherman, Anon, and have a 50ft boat and a small push butty to accommodate the office/music etc.

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, dm6045 said:

I take your comments and yes they are optemistic however they do exist and we are happy to wait tbh the reason that we have not been able to proceed with most of them that have suited us is down to a rather long run of bad luck in personal circumstances over the 4 years.  And it just so happens that the few we have been able to proceed with have been either consirably over priced for the condition (in more knowledgeable peoples than our opinion) or the survey has thrown up too much essential work for us and we have had bad luck with sellers then not wishing to renegotiate even when on 2 we offered the asking price.

 

yes second bedroom conversions have always been considered and are very much an option because we know that may have to go down that route in order to get a space that works as no second hand boat will ever be entirely perfect there will always be something you would change because after all your buying something that in the beggiining was someone elses dream not yours.

it is a requirement as we need the extra space to be able to shut work away from the rest of the boat (unfortunately when self employed and doing the majority of work from home you cant leave work at the front door amd we have spent to long living places where the workspace is the livingspace and that just doesnt suit us. So ultimately we wouldnt get as much from the boat if it didnt have it. And if waiting is what it takes then thats what happens. Theres no race after all isnt life on the cut about slowing down lmfao.

I have heard many many people over my 27 years aboard saying there is no rush and they are going to do " The system " when they retire.........and quite a few of them never got to retire!! You only have one innings and being a " Gonna do " can go sorely wrong.

[chubby]

Fair enough Sir 

In all honesty i can only imagine the way to realise the vision you have for the interior of your boat is to buy for way below your budget & use the remainder for alterations . 

I expect you would need to be imaginative with ideas and a degree compromise is likely to still be necessary . If u feel up to it you could even force yourself to sit thru the mind torture of " George Clarkes amazing / small / whatever spaces " for ideas . Personally id rather endure  an hours waterboarding . 

I expect it could be rewarding ( fun ??) to design ( theres someone on here ..ally ?... who advises professionally on refits / fitouts etc ) your own interior space . Compromising here and there to create the usage you want . Fold up beds , slidy in and out  bits n bobs etc -  it could cool . I think youre 100% correct to want an office space that disappears when work is finished . I use my boat to study ( dinette !) but when done everything gets put away for the same reasons you state . 

It can all be done with a combination of budget , imagination & budget again but i strongly suspect you may wait quite some time for what u want to pop up on the market . 

Good luck - hope you get it sorted 

cheers

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by chubby

[dm6045]

Well the final decision has now been made we're walking away after nearly 4 weeks of trying to negotiate the seller has finally told the broker that he will only accept 500 off the asking price (our highest was 1000 off asking.) On the condition that after the survey no further negotiations will take place.

So tbh as much as she is so right for us its not worth it considering our highest offer is well over what several people (and even the broker in not so many words) say that she is worth. We were happy to pay our highest knowing that what we want is specific and she fitted the bill and there was no internal alterations to be done to the layout. But aparently when the broker said that he signed terms to say that he would negotiate post survey for any engine, hull, bss or insurance issues he flatly refused told them that if we offered asking price now he would drop 500 after for any work. If not his counter offer was "save the money you would spend on the survey buy the boat then spend that money sorting anything out that may arrise."

I unfortunately have very little time for people like that especially when they know its over priced already so it will probably be one of those boats that sits on brokerage for a year or so untill they realise it isnt happening and blame the brokerage lol. ( at the end of the day they are getting free moorings i suppose and as they havent even seen the boat since early last year dont suppose it makes much difference to them.) so now me and my partner have a running bet on how long she will sit there taunting us and considering we are the only ones to have shown any interest since it went up in December that me be a while yet.

[lulu fish]

I hope the brokerage isn't giving him free moorings as they may be storing the boat for a while.

 

 

[mross]

8 hours ago, dm6045 said:

I unfortunately have very little time for people like that especially when they know its over priced already

It's not clear if you are being rude about the vendor or the broker?  Perhaps not a good idea to fall out with the broker if he reads this!  

[Sea Dog]

10 minutes ago, mross said:

It's not clear if you are being rude about the vendor or the broker?  Perhaps not a good idea to fall out with the broker if he reads this!  

Between the lines, I'm reading that the broker is as exasperated as the OP!