Insurance, are you covered?

[Ray T]

Interesting and perhaps far reaching article in Canal Boat April 2017.

[WotEver]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing

[PeteS]

Interesting, but why does the boat/caravan/motor home cause the issue?

Does it mean that if I go on a trip in my car stopping at various B&Bs/hotels it's not insured?  Surely with a caravan or motor home this is implicit in the type of vehicle?

 

[WotEver]

Just now, PeteS said:

Interesting, but why does the boat/caravan/motor home cause the issue?

Does it mean that if I go on a trip in my car stopping at various B&Bs/hotels it's not insured?  Surely with a caravan or motor home this is implicit in the type of vehicle?

One of the questions in most car insurance applications is worded to the effect "Will the car be kept away from home for more than 30 consecutive days?"  So CCing would be in the affirmative, a holiday probably not. 

[Ray T]

14 minutes ago, PeteS said:

Interesting, but why does the boat/caravan/motor home cause the issue?

Does it mean that if I go on a trip in my car stopping at various B&Bs/hotels it's not insured?  Surely with a caravan or motor home this is implicit in the type of vehicle?

 

I suppose it is up to each individual to contact their insures to clarify the position, which I have done.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Ray T

[Machpoint005]

I have the feeling the letter isn't giving us all the information we need.

[Rickent]

I' m pretty sure you can keep your car away from your main residence providing you inform the insurance company where it is being kept.

[widebeamboy]

25 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

I have the feeling the letter isn't giving us all the information we need.

I think you might be right......

Pretty sure Adrian Flux have just brokered a policy for CC'ers, although might be wrong.  

The letter writer is also likely to run into other issues when she does find an insurer as having a policy cancelled by the insurer is a red flag for other insurers and could go against them quite badly. 

 

[matty40s]

26 minutes ago, Rickent said:

I' m pretty sure you can keep your car away from your main residence providing you inform the insurance company where it is being kept.

I have been with Direct Line for years with no issues,  even when they were investigating a suspicious collision I was involved in (partly resulting in a west midlands major insurance scam being uncovered). They are fully aware I work all over the country and the car could be anywhere overnight.

[Paul C]

32 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

I have the feeling the letter isn't giving us all the information we need.

I have the feeling the person mentioned in the quoted article took out a fairly normal car insurance policy and "massaged the truth" somewhat in order to fill in the required boxes of the form more easily, basically they used their "correspondance" address for the address and probably didn't even mention that the car will rarely/never actually be there, rather it will be left on the roadside, or various publically-accessible car parks, alongside the canal network.

There is a code of practice within the insurance industry that if facts are later revealed about a car/policyholder (after a claim), which would have measurably affected the premium, the insurers apply a proportional payout basis given the difference in percentages of the premiums. For example if you insure your car based on it being a 1.3L but it turns out to be a 1.5GL; or if undeclared mods (alloys, tinted windows, aftermarket air fliter and exhaust etc) are discovered post-crash. But also they can cancel a  policy based on incorrect or differing information in reality, than given when setting up the policy.

Personally I am not surprised they cancelled it given the vague actual location of the car - location is one of the most important risk factors for car insurance and prices can differ wildly from place-to-place.

[Stuart Davies]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

One of the questions in most car insurance applications is worded to the effect "Will the car be kept away from home for more than 30 consecutive days?"  So CCing would be in the affirmative, a holiday probably not. 

I have never had this question. The relevant question is AFAIR "where is the vehicle normally kept overnight?".  (my bold)

Maybe it's in the terms and conditions but it's never been a question.

[WotEver]

13 minutes ago, Stuart Davies said:

I have never had this question. The relevant question is AFAIR "where is the vehicle normally kept overnight?".  (my bold)

Maybe it's in the terms and conditions but it's never been a question.

Perhaps I'm thinking of house insurance. 

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Stuart Davies said:

I have never had this question. The relevant question is AFAIR "where is the vehicle normally kept overnight?".  (my bold)

Maybe it's in the terms and conditions but it's never been a question.

Surely the 'man on the Clapham Omnibus' would take 'normally' to represent the MAJORITY of the time - it would be unlikely (I would suggest) that a CCer would have there car in anyone place for more than a few days.

No doubt the NBTA K&A club will now use that as an excuse not to move : "we cannot get our cars insured if we move, &, we need our cars to take the children to school"

[Soupdragon]

Having just had my insurance cancelled for ccing i can confirm that after a number of phone calls to brokers insurance companies. There is no one to insure my vehicle.

[Mike Todd]

We have just taken out insurance for our about-to-be new boat. It is initially insured as 'continuous cruising' as we will not be taking the boat directly to a marina but using it over the next few months to progress from marina to marina (semi CC?). This was discussed openly with the insurer who opted to describe it as it is on the policy. However, we cannot leave it unattended towpath-side for more than 24 hours without supervision.

Did not discuss car as they do not insure it. But we have clarified the situation regarding our house when we are on the boat and how long we may be away without returning home.

If we were fully CC then it would be necessary to discuss openly with a broker but I can understand that it might be complicated not least because most car insurers would not have the necessary tick boxes. Perhaps try an insurer that does both boats and cars?

It never helps to try to fool an insurer - they will not check it out up front but only when a claim is made, at which time it is too late to change the declaration. All of the conversations I had with insurers/brokers included stern warning that it was my responsibility to make sure that I had answered the questions truthfully and accurately and that the insurance would be invalid if subsequently it proved not to be the case. The biggest problem lies with matters that are not asked specifically but might come up under a catch-all question along the lines of Is there anything else material to this policy which you want to tell us? What might be material?

When in doubt, ask. It is pointless handing over large premiums for a worthless policy.

One thing to watch is if you disclose matters which then lead them to say that you do not fit their criteria, make sure that the words 'decline to insure' do not enter the conversation or if they try to use them, get them to correct it. Otherwise you will have trouble next time you ask for a quote which will almost always ask if you have ever had your insurance declined.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Mike Todd
update after premature send

[Jess--]

we had some fun with insurance on a fairground ride in the past where a company refused to insure the ride that was classified as mobile since it was not being stored inside a brick building overnight.

they couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that it would take 20 hours of work every day to put the ride in a building for 4 hours each night and would leave no time for the ride to actually operate.

they thought our daily procedure should be...
1. Take trailers from building
2. Crane ride from trailers into operating position (2 hours)
3. Build and safety check the ride (10 hours)
4. Operate ride
5. Dismantle ride (6 hours)
6. Crane ride from operating position onto trailers (2 hours)
7. park trailers inside locked building "overnight"

[Machpoint005]

Presumably it would take a thief at least 6 hours to pinch it, and that's assuming they actually knew what they were doing?

[WotEver]

24 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

... we have clarified the situation regarding our house when we are on the boat and how long we may be away without returning home.

If we were fully CC then it would be necessary to discuss openly with a broker...

We owned a house which stood empty for over 18 months and it was simple to ensure once we'd been told about 'Landlord insurance'. We were up-front that it was fully furnished but unoccupied and they were totally cool with it. Prior to going to a specialist all the 'usual' companies had said "Oh no...". 

[Horace42]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Perhaps I'm thinking of house insurance. 

Where is your house kept overnight ?

[matty40s]

1 minute ago, Horace42 said:

Where is your house kept overnight ?

At the end of garden mooring....

[dor]

This has long been a potential problem for students, where they are named drivers on their mother's policy which is covering the car.  This is not uncommon as obviously a student trying to get insurance would probably be asked to pay into four figures.  If the car is registered at the parent's address, but "normally" kept at the student's address, they are effectively uninsured.

[Jess--]

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

Presumably it would take a thief at least 6 hours to pinch it, and that's assuming they actually knew what they were doing?

8 hours including loading for a crew of 6 (that know the ride inside out) plus a crane, operator and 2 flat bed 40ft trailers.

final solution for us was the ride was covered for public liability (20 million) but was not covered in any way for fire, theft or damage

[Graham Davis]

Having just renewed my car insurance, and often being away from home with the "tin snail shell" I have checked the policy (SAGA) and I am allowed to be away from the home address for up to 30 days, which may be extended on application.

As has been said, I suspect there is a lot more to this than at first reading.

[alan_fincher]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

One of the questions in most car insurance applications is worded to the effect "Will the car be kept away from home for more than 30 consecutive days?"  So CCing would be in the affirmative, a holiday probably not. 

 

2 hours ago, Stuart Davies said:

I have never had this question. The relevant question is AFAIR "where is the vehicle normally kept overnight?".  (my bold)

Maybe it's in the terms and conditions but it's never been a question.

I agree with Stuart - my distinct impression is that you are normally asked "where is the vehicle normally kept overnight?", or very similar.

I would take that to mean "the vast majority of the year for which it insured".  I would certainly not assume I am not insured because I have it away from home for maybe more than a month in connection with a long holiday.

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

We owned a house which stood empty for over 18 months and it was simple to ensure once we'd been told about 'Landlord insurance'. We were up-front that it was fully furnished but unoccupied and they were totally cool with it. Prior to going to a specialist all the 'usual' companies had said "Oh no...". 

Thinking about it earlier, I felt I should have also added the comment that most things are insurable so long as you don';t mind the premium! However, most of us look for low cost insurance and the liberalisation moves of 20 - 30 years ago produced just that (along with eg low cost banking) at the expense of extensive automation and standard procedures. Go outside that envelope and you are back into the more expensive bespoke underwriting. As you say, there is a lot of specialisation and it is usually a good idea to go to them if you want anything that is not bog standard.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Mike Todd