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Can I transit from Glasson dock to the Thames?


steve yates
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But if it changes every tide they can't possibly know it either can they?

 

I said it "can change" not that it does always does so, and the Pilots know how to "read" the river so know where they need to head.

 

http://www.gloucesterpilots.co.uk/services/leisure/

 

I would also suggest reading the books by Chris Witts, he has some excellent examples.

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The problem with the Severn is that it can change every tide, sometimes dramatically, which is why the advice is to have a Pilot on board who knows the river.

My understanding is that that advice is based on inland craft making the passage on the basis that there are too many factors for a novice on tidal waters to take in, and it's one of the longest and most sea like passages that inland boats make. I wouldn't expect a yachtsman who has approached from the sea to use a pilot. The ships heading for Avonmouth do, but they are a rather different kettle of fish.

 

The OP won't have come from the sea direction but it would appear he has the skills to do so.

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Not if you are in the Himalayas. You asked earlier about the tide at Avonmouth. You better do some research.

 

I hope you make the journey by some route.

 

JP

 

 

Do you know anything about the Severn Estuary?

 

Climbing guides are available and used in many areas.

 

I mean no disrespect guys, but .... I have never used a guide in the himalayas. I have never used a guide in over 30 years of climbing, at a reasonable standard, all over the world.

I know nothing about the severn estuary, nor the avonmouth tides, (which is why I asked) and of course I will do some research.

 

I will ask on a sailing forum about navigation and pilotage in the upper reaches of the severn, like I asked on here about transiting canals. I asked about canals here because I know nothing about them, and quite fancy a go.

 

I would have charts and tidetables for the severn, as I had whatever available maps, and route descriptions (when not attempting new routes) when climbing.

 

I appreciate that someone taking a narrowboat down the severn estuary after only ever cruising canals, may require a pilot, seems like sense. But a small sailing boat most certainly does not require one, regardless of whether I know the area or not. I had no clue about the areas I have sailed in, until I went and had a look. I simply asked advice and took the charts and tide tables.

Now, back to the canals, good pubs and great stopping off points smile.png

Edited by steve yates
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I mean no disrespect guys, but .... I have never used a guide in the himalayas. I have never used a guide in over 30 years of climbing, at a reasonable standard, all over the world.

I know nothing about the severn estuary, nor the avonmouth tides, (which is why I asked) and of course I will do some research.

 

I will ask on a sailing forum about navigation and pilotage in the upper reaches of the severn, like I asked on here about transiting canals. I asked about canals here because I know nothing about them, and quite fancy a go.

 

I would have charts and tidetables for the severn, as I had whatever available maps, and route descriptions (when not attempting new routes) when climbing.

 

I appreciate that someone taking a narrowboat down the severn estuary after only ever cruising canals, may require a pilot, seems like sense. But a small sailing boat most certainly does not require one, regardless of whether I know the area or not. I had no clue about the areas I have sailed in, until I went and had a look. I simply asked advice and took the charts and tide tables.

Now, back to the canals, good pubs and great stopping off points :)

Steve,

 

I didn't respond directly to the question because I have no experience of boating on the Severn Estuary, as you say this is predominantly a still water forum. There are members who have done this journey though.

 

It just seemed a bit odd to be so bold about not needing a pilot without establishing what you will be up against first. I do know the estuary well as an observer in all states of tide and weather and the problem isn't so much having tide to help but having too much tide. The tidal range is about 9 metres and the tidal race something like 6 knots on the Severn. The river is very wide but shallow. Hence the point about research wasn't a facetious one. Obviously there is also a significant tide up the Avon.

 

I will gladly give you some tips on pubs in the Midlands but first you'll have to work out which way you are going and let us know. It seems a bit of a long way round to go via the Severn if I may so say. The suggestion of via Oxford seemed to be a good balance between your boat and the start and end points of your journey. Providing you are confident about draught because the Oxford ain't the deepest canal.

 

Good luck,

 

JP

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There's also the English Stones - a large are of flattish rock that dries out at low tide. Its on the shortest route between Sharpness and Avonmouth so its tempting to cross. But try this at the wrong time and you will go aground.

Edited by David Mack
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Thx David. I will post when I decide a route. I only thought of the Severn as a detour cos the trip looked prett :) I know the Severn has a rep, and I always do my research. I overload on info to counter my inexperience.

Having said that, I'm not as inexperienced as I was last year when I started sailing, I've Singlehanded that little boat 1100 miles from Cumbria, all the way up the entire west coast of Scotland and back down. Crossed the Irish Sea, the north channel, the Minch, rounded ardnamurchan, fairhead, and dealt with various tidal races round Northern Ireland and Scotland. I will be fine in the Severn estuary :)

Locks worry me more than tides and sandbanks!

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I mean no disrespect guys, but .... I have never used a guide in the himalayas. I have never used a guide in over 30 years of climbing, at a reasonable standard, all over the world.

I know nothing about the severn estuary, nor the avonmouth tides, (which is why I asked) and of course I will do some research.

 

I will ask on a sailing forum about navigation and pilotage in the upper reaches of the severn, like I asked on here about transiting canals. I asked about canals here because I know nothing about them, and quite fancy a go.

 

I would have charts and tidetables for the severn, as I had whatever available maps, and route descriptions (when not attempting new routes) when climbing.

 

I appreciate that someone taking a narrowboat down the severn estuary after only ever cruising canals, may require a pilot, seems like sense. But a small sailing boat most certainly does not require one, regardless of whether I know the area or not. I had no clue about the areas I have sailed in, until I went and had a look. I simply asked advice and took the charts and tide tables.

Now, back to the canals, good pubs and great stopping off points smile.png

 

 

You may find this a useful guide to the Severn Estuary - link below. Rather than getting conflicting advice, either from this forum or a sailing forum, it is better to see what the authorities have to say and then make up your mind.

 

http://gloucesterharbourtrustees.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/GHT-small-craft-guidance-Oct-2016.pdf

 

Although this forum as you say is intended for mainly still water boaters, there are many on here who have a wider experience, including sailing on the waters in question, and it is always wise to listen to their advice. I really do wonder about your comment "I appreciate that someone taking a narrowboat down the Severn estuary after only ever cruising canals, may require a pilot, seems like sense. But a small sailing boat most certainly does not require one, regardless of whether I know the area or not".

 

It is not the boat, which is an inanimate object, but the boater that needs advice and maybe the services of a pilot. Learning the issues when making the passage, like you seem to suggest, is not a wise move, unless you are an experienced and confident sailor.

 

Howard

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Thx David. I will post when I decide a route. I only thought of the Severn as a detour cos the trip looked prett smile.png I know the Severn has a rep, and I always do my research. I overload on info to counter my inexperience.

Having said that, I'm not as inexperienced as I was last year when I started sailing, I've Singlehanded that little boat 1100 miles from Cumbria, all the way up the entire west coast of Scotland and back down. Crossed the Irish Sea, the north channel, the Minch, rounded ardnamurchan, fairhead, and dealt with various tidal races round Northern Ireland and Scotland. I will be fine in the Severn estuary smile.png

Locks worry me more than tides and sandbanks!

I stand by the route I suggested in post #58. If you decide on a route, then I'm sure specific info will be more forthcoming.

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You may find this a useful guide to the Severn Estuary - link below. Rather than getting conflicting advice, either from this forum or a sailing forum, it is better to see what the authorities have to say and then make up your mind.

 

http://gloucesterharbourtrustees.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/GHT-small-craft-guidance-Oct-2016.pdf

 

Although this forum as you say is intended for mainly still water boaters, there are many on here who have a wider experience, including sailing on the waters in question, and it is always wise to listen to their advice. I really do wonder about your comment "I appreciate that someone taking a narrowboat down the Severn estuary after only ever cruising canals, may require a pilot, seems like sense. But a small sailing boat most certainly does not require one, regardless of whether I know the area or not".

 

It is not the boat, which is an inanimate object, but the boater that needs advice and maybe the services of a pilot. Learning the issues when making the passage, like you seem to suggest, is not a wise move, unless you are an experienced and confident sailor.

 

Howard

Interesting, so did you take a pilot the first time you sailed in the Severn estuary?

 

Let's be realistic, sailors, even those learning the craft, learn about passages by advice from others who have done it, and by doing it.

They do not take a pilot to "learn" a passage for the first time, otherwise they would never leave their own harbour.

 

Thank you for the link, it will be very useful. Narrowboats are not seagoing craft, I can see why they would emply a pilot.

Cargo ships and ocean going vessels are large, ungainly and very expensive, they usually have to employ a pilot.

Leisure yachts and fishing boats would very rarely, if ever, employ a pilot.

I stand by the route I suggested in post #58. If you decide on a route, then I'm sure specific info will be more forthcoming.

Thx, and it is the most probable one, but if I have time I will be tempted to divert :)
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Interesting, so did you take a pilot the first time you sailed in the Severn estuary?

 

Let's be realistic, sailors, even those learning the craft, learn about passages by advice from others who have done it, and by doing it.

They do not take a pilot to "learn" a passage for the first time, otherwise they would never leave their own harbour.

 

Thank you for the link, it will be very useful. Narrowboats are not seagoing craft, I can see why they would emply a pilot.

Cargo ships and ocean going vessels are large, ungainly and very expensive, they usually have to employ a pilot.

Leisure yachts and fishing boats would very rarely, if ever, employ a pilot.

Thx, and it is the most probable one, but if I have time I will be tempted to divert smile.png

 

I suggest you ring one of the Severn Pilots and seek their advice, since they are the experts, and you are ignoring comments on here.

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Steve,

You are correct in assessing that there is a certain amount of apprehension on these forums about any tidal waters, given the focus on inland boating.

 

What I think some are still trying to get across is that the tides in the Severn estuary should stand out even in the mind of an experienced seagoing sailor. The tidal range is the second highest in the world, behind only the Bay of Fundy. It can extend sometimes to as much as 15 metres. I came in to Sharpness on a seagoing sailing ship on a 10 metre tide a couple of years ago and it was a sobering experience. The current was still roaring along at several knots barely a couple of minutes before the very brief window of slack water. There is very little margin for error.

 

Do the trip as you choose, just be aware that the Severn is the K2 of tides.

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Interesting, so did you take a pilot the first time you sailed in the Severn estuary?

Let's be realistic, sailors, even those learning the craft, learn about passages by advice from others who have done it, and by doing it.

They do not take a pilot to "learn" a passage for the first time, otherwise they would never leave their own harbour.

Thank you for the link, it will be very useful. Narrowboats are not seagoing craft, I can see why they would emply a pilot.

Cargo ships and ocean going vessels are large, ungainly and very expensive, they usually have to employ a pilot.

Leisure yachts and fishing boats would very rarely, if ever, employ a pilot.Thx, and it is the most probable one, but if I have time I will be tempted to divert :)

Steve

 

If you consider that you have the confidence in your boat, personal experience and know-how to make the passage, then of course that is your decision. I was trying to give you some friendly advice after reading your earlier post - number 81- where you mention your inexperience. The Severn Estuary is one of the more challenging places to sail in small, low powered craft and all some of us are doing is sounding a note of caution. If you are happy to go ahead with your plans then have a great trip and don't forget to let us know how you get on.

 

You ask if I used a pilot when in the area. Yes I did, because I was obliged to, but if sailing recreationally then no.

 

Howard

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Thanks everyone, apologies if I was seeming flippant, I wasn't. I get that the severn needs to be treated with respect, and respect it will get. Just to check I wasn't being out of order I did ask the question about this on a sailing forum. No one would use a pilot, nor thought it necessary, but I got a lot of good tips and advice, and will no doubt get more if I go this way and ask in depth. There is a dedicated bristol channel sub forum I can ask for advice on local conditions.

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Re fuel and refuelling, there's an android app or Google maps for fuel stations, a folding bike with carrier is a good thing. I've done several long journeys, always had an outboard motor. Fill up whenever you see a garage near the canal, otherwise occasionally I've had to cycle or walk a couple of miles. 

Sounds like a fun trip. Go for it. 

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