Improving The Horizontal View From The Saloon Windows

[Guy Campbell]

On most boats we have been on, the position and size of the saloon windows has meant that you can't see out horizontally when sitting down. We are about to have a shell built and are thinking of ways to improve the horizontal visibility from the saloon. We are considering fitting saloon windows that are deeper than a "standard" 21 inch window. The window frame's lower edge will be closer to the gunwale and should give some improvement in the visibility. We may have to combine this with raising the seating too. Apart from the increased risk of kicking the windows when standing on the gunwale, can anyone see a problem with reducing the gap between the lower window frame edge and the gunwale? Also, apart from forming a step in the gunwale, has anyone any suggestions for getting a better horizontal view?

[john6767]

I assume you have seen the boats that Napton Narrowboats that have deep saloon windows

[pquinn]

[Athy]

I'm sure that those picture windows give an excellent view from within. Other hire boats, such as the Weed Boats which operated from Weedon, have had them too. But their disadvantage is the rise and fall in gunwales which inevitably comes with them - tricky and potentially dangerous during manoeuvring at locks or moorings, surely? A level gunwale is safer.

Liverpool Boats shells are noted for their low-set windows; perhaps you should look at those as a model.

 

But, if you are having a shell built, the builder should be able to incorporate any features you want as long as they are practicable and safe. Who is he?

[AndyV]

I think the "dropped gunwhale" Napton boats look pretty ugly but, of course, that's just to my eye and the visibility from the lounge may be more important to you. I don't think there is any doubt though that it would be much more easy to slip off while walking down the side of one of these boats.

If the lounge is going to be at the front would an "under cloth" type of all glass roofline be right for the type of boat you are designing. This gives much more glass extending much lower down. Again, the look would either be to your taste or not though. It would probably only really suit quite a traditional looking boat.

[magpie patrick]

I think the Napton solution is better than the deep window meeting the gunnel, another company had a design that dropped the gunnel halfway along and it stayed low. Tug style offers low gunnels for the full length

 

I used to worry about keeping the gunnel useable, but the ones on Lutine are almost impossible to walk down as they are very narrow indeed in places: I don't miss them*, and I can't readily use the roof either.

 

* save for the one time I locked myself on the front deck mid canal!

[Leo No2]

I'm sure that those picture windows give an excellent view from within. Other hire boats, such as the Weed Boats which operated from Weedon, have had them too. But their disadvantage is the rise and fall in gunwales which inevitably comes with them - tricky and potentially dangerous during manoeuvring at locks or moorings, surely? A level gunwale is safer.

Liverpool Boats shells are noted for their low-set windows; perhaps you should look at those as a model.

 

But, if you are having a shell built, the builder should be able to incorporate any features you want as long as they are practicable and safe. Who is he?

 

Hire boating is starting again at Weedon using (to start with) a former Weed boat - Hawkweed - see this link. I always though that the 'weed' in Weed boats names was something to do with Weedon but that's not so - Concoform's first boat was (I think) on the Thames and was called Duckweed. Weedon as a base, I understand, happened later.

 

Edit to add: I think it is so good to see Steve running the dock again and with Jim Birch there with his exquisite woodwork it augers well for the future.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Leo No2

[system 4-50]

I have 24" x 4ft windows & they don't come too near the gunnel & I have a dinette with the usual raised floor.

[mrsmelly]

I think the Napton solution is better than the deep window meeting the gunnel, another company had a design that dropped the gunnel halfway along and it stayed low. Tug style offers low gunnels for the full length

 

I used to worry about keeping the gunnel useable, but the ones on Lutine are almost impossible to walk down as they are very narrow indeed in places: I don't miss them*, and I can't readily use the roof either.

 

* save for the one time I locked myself on the front deck mid canal!

 

I concur. I practicaly never use either the roof or the gunwhales. On very rare occasions yes I do but it is more oft than not an avoidable excercise.

[alan_fincher]

 

Hire boating is starting again at Weedon using (to start with) a former Weed boat - Hawkweed - see this link. I always though that the 'weed' in Weed boats names was something to do with Weedon but that's not so - Concoform's first boat was (I think) on the Thames and was called Duckweed. Weedon as a base, I understand, happened later.

 

Edit to add: I think it is so good to see Steve running the dock again and with Jim Birch there with his exquisite woodwork it augers well fir the future.

I believe the original Duckweed was built by them in some kind of ferro-cement construction, and I think is where the name Concoform was coined.

 

I think the first boat that they had to hire on the canals was in fact Bindweed, an outboard powered GRP boat, probably a centre-cockpit Dawncraft.

 

After that they started operating Harborough Marine built "window breakers" from Weedon, and the Duckweed name got reused for a 37 foot boat built about 1971.. When our family hired it, it was brand new to the extent that I think the picture that appeared in the brochure was not actually of that boat, because it didn't exist when the brochure was printed.

[Leo No2]

I believe the original Duckweed was built by them in some kind of ferro-cement construction, and I think is where the name Concoform was coined.

 

I think the first boat that they had to hire on the canals was in fact Bindweed, an outboard powered GRP boat, probably a centre-cockpit Dawncraft.

 

After that they started operating Harborough Marine built "window breakers" from Weedon, and the Duckweed name got reused for a 37 foot boat built about 1971.. When our family hired it, it was brand new to the extent that I think the picture that appeared in the brochure was not actually of that boat, because it didn't exist when the brochure was printed.

 

Their history is here Alan.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

If you have the room put your dining area on a plinth so you can see out.

[alan_fincher]

 

Their history is here Alan.

 

Well they should know their own history, but unless there were two GRP "Bindweeds" in quick succession, then I'm not convinced it was a Dolphin.

 

I don't think I'm bored enough (yet!) to go looking for old photos though.

 

On a different note, we walked North from the Concoform / "Weed boats" base yesterday, up to about Dodford. What a treasure trove of old GUCCCo boats that currently yields.....

 

Bootes

Cedar

Thaxted / (Widgeon)

Cedar

Phobos

George

Mary

William

 

(plus I'm sure at least one more I have forgotten already!)

 

Go another half mile South and you can add ours to the list, plus there are the 4 derelict GUCCCo boats on that stretch, so "historic" spotters get to see maybe 15 in under 3 miles.

Edited February 1, 2017 by alan_fincher

[magictime]

There's this style too, which I associate with older Black Prince boats... not sure how many were built like this and when, but I've seen quite a few around:

 

[nicknorman]

Narrowboats are a compromise in many areas. I think if you lower the windows to the gunnels or drop the gunnels as per Napton Narrowboats, your boat will look hideous and you will come to regret it. It will be much less visually offensive to raise the seating inside rather than lower the windows. Our dinette is on a raised plinth that allows a reasonable view out when seated, although with hindsight I would have had it raised further still. If you are going to have freestanding chairs in the saloon area you could get ones with adjustable height and foot rests. Sometimes you want to be high up looking out, sometimes you want to snuggle down in the bowels of the boat and be "invisible".

[magictime]

Also, apart from forming a step in the gunwale, has anyone any suggestions for getting a better horizontal view?

 

I suppose somebody should suggest the obvious alternative to big windows just above a (possibly lowered) gunwale, which is big windows next to the front door(s) and/or large glazed panels in the door(s). Personally I quite like the "cottagey" look of boats with a big square window beside a single offset front door, and of course there are boats with fully glazed "french window"-type doors too. Then it would just be a question of arranging the internal seating to ensure you could enjoy the view.

[Bee]

I would get a few sheets of A3 and do some scale sketches of what is possible, practical, and what looks terrible. It is really difficult to feel much pride or love for an ugly boat and sooner or later you will want to sell it. You might find that the window shapes could provide a solution, how about arched top and a corresponding arched 'fishbelly' bottom? That could look quite classy and lift the boat away from the usual run of the mill boat.

[alan_fincher]

I think it is fair to say that it is widely acknowledged that those hire boat style dropped gunwales are not popular with private buyers, and that resale values almost certainly suffer as a result.

 

Personally I find them hideous, but of course beauty is in the eve of the beholder.

I would investigate seating that could be raised or lowered, maybe by hydraulic means, and steer away from anything that results in a pig ugly boat!

There's this style too, which I associate with older Black Prince boats... not sure how many were built like this and when, but I've seen quite a few around:

 

 

Quite apart from increasing the ease of damaging windows with boots, (as there is no significant cabin-side between bottom of window and gunwale), I wonder how watertight an arrangement may be when a heavy downpour is hitting the gunwales

[chubby]

I think Nick Norman is correct . Those windows look dreadful and you may well regret them later .

 

I think there is more milage in considering how to create a view thru the front of the boat with large windows either side of the bow doors and arranging your seating so as to make the most of it .

These might be those ghastly " captains " chairs ( i don t get them at all but others will disagree ) or a small sofa across width of the boat as opposed to under the gunwhales .

 

Those windows are horrible , don t go there

 

cheers

[Tacet]

How about concave glass? Bizzard will be along to give some tips on making it cheaply.

[WotEver]

How about concave glass? Bizzard will be along to give some tips on making it cheaply.

Get the stove roaring until the glass goes plastic and run a vacuum cleaner...

[magictime]

How about concave glass? Bizzard will be along to give some tips on making it cheaply.

 

...or perhaps to give step-by-step instruction on constructing the whole shell out of glass bricks and superglue, allowing an unobstructed 360-degree view including the canal bed?

[WotEver]

 

...or perhaps to give step-by-step instruction on constructing the whole shell out of glass bricks and superglue, allowing an unobstructed 360-degree view including the canal bed?

Hey, now there's an idea....

[magpie patrick]

I think Nick Norman is correct . Those windows look dreadful and you may well regret them later .

 

I think there is more milage in considering how to create a view thru the front of the boat with large windows either side of the bow doors and arranging your seating so as to make the most of it .

These might be those ghastly " captains " chairs ( i don t get them at all but others will disagree ) or a small sofa across width of the boat as opposed to under the gunwhales .

 

Those windows are horrible , don t go there

 

cheers

 

 

Ripple had large windows to the front and "normal height" windows to the side, overall the view was very good

 

Juno (a cabin cruiser rather than a narrow boat) has wraparound windows and a slightly raised dinnette, the all round view is great. I have also realised that even with the curtains open people outside can't really see me inside.

[cuthound]

I believe the original Duckweed was built by them in some kind of ferro-cement construction, and I think is where the name Concoform was coined.

 

I think the first boat that they had to hire on the canals was in fact Bindweed, an outboard powered GRP boat, probably a centre-cockpit Dawncraft.

 

After that they started operating Harborough Marine built "window breakers" from Weedon, and the Duckweed name got reused for a 37 foot boat built about 1971.. When our family hired it, it was brand new to the extent that I think the picture that appeared in the brochure was not actually of that boat, because it didn't exist when the brochure was printed.

We hired from Concoform Marine in 1989. In the brochure they supplied they stated that the Clarke's had made their money to buy the Weedon boatyard by operating a successful concrete spraying business, which was sold to fund their hiring endeavours, and this was the source of their name.