Addition to Pump Out Loo - any recommendations?

[Tipnturn]

Yup, its the dreaded bog question....the eternal debate over boats and toilets...

 

Currently have a pump out - no problems with it as currently on a marina. Heading out to CC on the rivers mostly and having to pump out every three weeks is a bit of a bind (not to mention cost and water use). Any recommendations for a supplemental system I can stick in the bathroom alongside the pump out loo?

 

I have no issue with a pump out loo, no desire to remove/convert it, and not fussed over which one is 'best'. Just looking for an alternative to try and reduce reliance on it.

 

Thanks!

Edited January 26, 2017 by Tipnturn

[Alan de Enfield]

If you will be staying on the Trent it is legal to discharge directly overboard (and many do), convert your holding tank with the addition of a 'switch-over' then you can decide in which direction your effluent goes.

 

Alternatives :

1) Get a porta-potty and sit it alongside your existing throne, but you still need to empty it somewhere.

2) Use bankside facilities (pubs, C&RT toilets etc)

3) Install a bigger holding tank

[Tipnturn]

If you will be staying on the Trent it is legal to discharge directly overboard (and many do), convert your holding tank with the addition of a 'switch-over' then you can decide in which direction your effluent goes.

 

Alternatives :

1) Get a porta-potty and sit it alongside your existing throne, but you still need to empty it somewhere.

2) Use bankside facilities (pubs, C&RT toilets etc)

3) Install a bigger holding tank

Alan I have to confess I did not realise that was legal, seems all sorts of wrong?!?!? Bombshell!! I did wonder as I know some folks using sea toilets....Installing a larger tank is not possible.

[Cloudinspector]

We get up to 5 weeks between pump outs but also have a thetford porta potti in the engine room as a back up loo.

[Tipnturn]

We get up to 5 weeks between pump outs but also have a thetford porta potti in the engine room as a back up loo.

Yup seems a simple solution, any particular model you'd recommend, or are they all much of a muchness?

[dmr]

Can you adopt a more frugal loo use policy, especially regarding flushing water usage?

If you can stretch the pump out to 4 or 5 weeks that would be better.

We can go about 6 weeks but I do it every 4 or so to leave a good safety margin and don't find this too much trouble.

If you find pumping out every three weeks a bit of a bind then how will you cope with the indignity of having to empty a portapotti every three days!

 

.................Dave

[Tipnturn]

Can you adopt a more frugal loo use policy, especially regarding flushing water usage?

If you can stretch the pump out to 4 or 5 weeks that would be better.

We can go about 6 weeks but I do it every 4 or so to leave a good safety margin and don't find this too much trouble.

If you find pumping out every three weeks a bit of a bind then how will you cope with the indignity of having to empty a portapotti every three days!

 

.................Dave

It is only a bind in that it ties you to needing to be in a certain place at a certain time. I have no issues with the mechanics of it.

[Sue]

We have gone down the route of composting.. Why on earth I didnt do it earlier I don't know. So easy and 'convenient'!

 

Looks good too..

 

 

That replaces our pump out loo. We will retain both the loo and the tank in case if ever the boat is sold new owners can choose. There is absolutely no smell whatsoever. This is one from Kildwick and at £375 VAT inc I think it is a bit of a snip.

[ditchcrawler]

We get up to 5 weeks between pump outs but also have a thetford porta potti in the engine room as a back up loo.

Same here, we have used the backup I think 3 times in 14 years.

Yup seems a simple solution, any particular model you'd recommend, or are they all much of a muchness?

We went for the smallest we could get, as I said its a back up, not in regular use, so storrage was our biggest issue. don't know about Cloudinspector

[Tipnturn]

We have gone down the route of composting.. Why on earth I didnt do it earlier I don't know. So easy and 'convenient'!

 

Looks good too..

 

 

That replaces our pump out loo. We will retain both the loo and the tank in case if ever the boat is sold new owners can choose. There is absolutely no smell whatsoever. This is one from Kildwick and at £375 VAT inc I think it is a bit of a snip.

That's so weird, I was literally just reading your blog about your venture across the wash!!!

We have gone down the route of composting.. Why on earth I didnt do it earlier I don't know. So easy and 'convenient'!

 

Looks good too..

 

 

That replaces our pump out loo. We will retain both the loo and the tank in case if ever the boat is sold new owners can choose. There is absolutely no smell whatsoever. This is one from Kildwick and at £375 VAT inc I think it is a bit of a snip.

Was it relatively easy to fit/install Sue? Where do you actually 'empty' it then? Intrigued by these as they seem a real solution for full time cruising...

[Sue]

Was it relatively easy to fit/install Sue? Where do you actually 'empty' it then? Intrigued by these as they seem a real solution for full time cruising...

 

Very easy to install. That is all there is to it. Free standing, no pipes no fans although you can have one fitted but we have found that it is fine as it is. Of course we have changed over this winter, the weather is cool and it remains to be seen if we have the same zero smell in the heat of the summer but we can always add fans if necessary.

 

We just took out the macerator loo, blanked off all pipes and popped that one straight down.

 

There is a separator so ones go into a container which gets emptied well out of the way under a distant hedge kand twos go into general rubbish after being double bagged in garden type black liners.

 

No more having to worry about whether the next pump out machine is working!

[Tipnturn]

 

Very easy to install. That is all there is to it. Free standing, no pipes no fans although you can have one fitted but we have found that it is fine as it is. Of course we have changed over this winter, the weather is cool and it remains to be seen if we have the same zero smell in the heat of the summer but we can always add fans if necessary.

 

We just took out the macerator loo, blanked off all pipes and popped that one straight down.

 

There is a separator so ones go into a container which gets emptied well out of the way under a distant hedge kand twos go into general rubbish after being double bagged in garden type black liners.

 

No more having to worry about whether the next pump out machine is working!

Brilliant, very useful to know Sue and sounds like a really good solution...Thank you.

[RufusR]

We just bought a Popaloo as an emergency toilet in case we are iced in as we are at the moment etc etc .. It s really good . Folds down to nothing for easy storage when not being used , very sturdy and uses the equiivlent to large doggie poo bags filled with a powder that turns everything to bio degradeable gel then you pop bag in the nearest bin ( just like dog poo bags ) .. Bags are quite pricey but as an emergency measure for a day or two it is excellent .

[chubby]

Im not sure if ive read correctly but are saying Sue that once full , you empty the toilets " bucket " of lets say 30 days of shit , put it into a bin bag & put in the bin for collection where it then goes off to landfill ?

 

If so , that is beyond dreadful & beyond selfish too if i might be so bold to say so . People have to work in these places , someone has to empty that bin . Suppose you dump te remains of 30 x breakfast lunch & dinner in your double bin bag and someone then adds broken glass into the bin or another sharp item possibly and your bags get punctured . I imagine it isn t the most rewarding job in world anyway but then they have to deal with a bag of human shite that someone has decided is an entirely appropriate item for binmen to take away . But hey - ho , no worries cos its not you having to deal with it as youll be long gone .

 

I think compost toilets are a good idea , but i m beginning to think that people can t be trusted with them . If you use one then i think theres a responsablity to not dispose of it until it has broken down into compost ( months and months ) . Its your shit - store it untils its compost . Or you need a place where u can regularly dump it onto a proper compost heap .

 

This idea that " its ok , i ll just put it into the regular rubbish bin " is becoming consdered normal and its a practice that is commonly announced as " ok ... entirely acceptable " .

 

I think otherwise . Its shameful and its lazy and its selfish as any consequences will not affect the person who dumped a months worth of crap into public bins .

 

Those toilets you recommended are nothing more than a bucket with a seat . £375 for a bucket with a wooden box is not my idea of a snip . There is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPOSTING taking place as its not equipped suitably .

Atleast the Airhead & Natureshead models go someway to at least beginning the composting process by churning the contents , introducing air so as to get composting underway .

At £700 + they appear understandably uncommon and so the myth that just chucking human crap into the bins is ok - its all natural afterall insn t it , has grown up & instead we can all buy the cheaper versions cant we ?

 

Ask yourself very honestly : Do you really think its right and fair to do this knowing full well someone somewhere will be coming into close proximty to it ?

 

I think not

Edited January 26, 2017 by chubby

[cereal tiller]

Im not sure if ive read correctly but are saying Sue that once full , you empty the toilets " bucket " of lets say 30 days of shit , put it into a bin bag & put in the bin for collection where it then goes off to landfill ?

 

If so , that is beyond dreadful & beyond selfish too if i might be so bold to say so . People have to work in these places , someone has to empty that bin . Suppose you dump te remains of 30 x breakfast lunch & dinner in your double bin bag and someone then adds broken glass into the bin or another sharp item possibly and your bags get punctured . I imagine it isn t the most rewarding job in world anyway but then they have to deal with a bag of human shite that someone has decided is an entirely appropriate item for binmen to take away . But hey - ho , no worries cos its not you having to deal with it as youll be long gone .

 

I think compost toilets are a good idea , but i m beginning to think that people can t be trusted with them . If you use one then i think theres a responsablity to not dispose of it until it has broken down into compost ( months and months ) . Its your shit - store it untils its compost . Or you need a place where u can regularly dump it onto a proper compost heap .

 

This idea that " its ok , i ll just put it into the regular rubbish bin " is becoming consdered normal and its a practice that is commonly announced as " ok ... entirely acceptable " .

 

I think otherwise . Its shameful and its lazy and its selfish as any consequences will be not affect the person who dumped a months worth of crap into public bins .

 

Those toilets you recommended are nothing more than a bucket with a seat . £375 for a bucket with a wooden box is not my idea of a snip . There is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPOSTING taking place as its not equipped suitably .

Atleast the Airhead & Natureshead models go someway to at least beginning the composting process by churning the contents , introducing air so as to get composting underway .

At £700 + they appear understandably uncommon and so the myth that just chucking human crap into the bins is ok - its all natural afterall insn t it , has grown up & instead we can all buy the cheaper versions cant we ?

 

Ask yourself very honestly : Do you really think its right and fair to do this knowing full well someone somewhere will be coming into close proximty to it ?

 

I think not

The older 'Bucket and Chuck it 'toilets were often just a Bucket with a seat on,if the empty bucket had a binbag liner placed in it and some sawdust/shavings,once used for Defecation purposes the bag and contents could be discarded.

 

 

Cheaper method than a Composting Loo and equally dubious from a hygiene point of view

 

Can see your point

 

CT

[ditchcrawler]

We just bought a Popaloo as an emergency toilet in case we are iced in as we are at the moment etc etc .. It s really good . Folds down to nothing for easy storage when not being used , very sturdy and uses the equiivlent to large doggie poo bags filled with a powder that turns everything to bio degradeable gel then you pop bag in the nearest bin ( just like dog poo bags ) .. Bags are quite pricey but as an emergency measure for a day or two it is excellent .

I have thought of getting one of those and dumping the porta potty as it would talk a lot less space up.

[chubby]

" Bucket & chuck it " is exactly all these toilets are . They're absolutely nothing else . I don't really care how lovely the carpentry of the box is . If you look at closely it's nothing more than a wooden box with a plastic bucket for crapping into . End of . The fact it may look all lah di dah doesn't disguise that its a bucket of shit .
No composting is taking place at all - not even remotely.
To then put in public bins is selfish & downright irresponsible. The fact that its " double bagged " only serves to demonstrate the individual doing it knows full well that they ought not to be .
" oh ... perhaps we should use two bags cos this stuffs horrible " just implies that theyre aware of of its unpleasantness.
Its just all wrong and its inducative of 21 st Century Britains " f*** u jack im alright " mentality

Edited January 26, 2017 by Dave_P

[Canal Shop Man]

First of all, can I ask Chubby how he is qualified to tell us what is and isn't a compost toilet?

 

Next, can I, as someone who has been involved with compost toilets and sewage for over 15 years, make it clear to people that, whilst it is not illegal to buy a Popaloo, it is illegal to deposit the contents, which are raw sewage, anywhere other than in suitable sanitation points and that, apart from using no water, it produces the same output as a Porta-Potti.

 

I won't comment on the Kildwick as a) I have never used one, and it hasn't been around long enough for people to give a judgement on its long term use, but I will say that the extra cost of buying a professionally made toilet is to repay the manufacturers for the years of development that have gone into them and the enhancements and improvements that come with such developments, which all lead to a more pleasant experience. Also that toilet needs emptying very often, so perhaps it is worth paying extra for the extra convenience? I will leave users to judge.

 

I will agree with Chubby that dumping fresh solid waste in rubbish is also illegal and similarly unhygienic. However, if it is composted down for at least 26 weeks, which is quite practical with a Nature's Head, Separett, or Air Head, since the quantity is so small, then it is both safe and legal. Of course those with suitable composting facility on land can dispose of it immediately into a composter, but those who are CC should store it on board for this time.

 

Obviously some people will dump their solid waste too soon, but then again I know that some people empty cassettes onto the towpath, whilst I have even heard of a Pump-out user pumping his tank out into the canal whilst cruising, so traditional toilet users are just as bad.

 

Certainly I would recommend a compost toilet (or shall I call it a waterless separating toilet to keep Chubby happy?) as the best solution for Tipnturn

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

Next, can I, as someone who has been involved with compost toilets and sewage for over 15 years, ...........

 

I will agree with Chubby that dumping fresh solid waste in rubbish is also illegal and similarly unhygienic. However, if it is composted down for at least 26 weeks, ..........

 

Can I firstly say I had had involvement in the production of 'sewage' for the whole of my life.

 

Secondly - I have no understanding how folks can have 4, 6, or 8 weeks worth of sewage 'slopping about under their bed', before they decide to get rid of it.

Keeping it in plastic bags (somewhere on the boat) for 26 weeks - unbelievable !!!!

[cereal tiller]

 

Can I firstly say I had had involvement in the production of 'sewage' for the whole of my life.

 

Secondly - I have no understanding how folks can have 4, 6, or 8 weeks worth of sewage 'slopping about under their bed', before they decide to get rid of it.

Keeping it in plastic bags (somewhere on the boat) for 26 weeks - unbelievable !!!!

Could put in Plant Pots on the Boat's Roof?........... Am joking !

 

CT

[Canal Shop Man]

Alan - if you think about it you have sewage on your boat all the time, except for a short while after you have emptied the cassette, or had a pump-out. I have no sewage on my boat . . .ever.

What is on board my boat is dry material, which is only on board to avoid any possible risk. I don't keep it in a plastic bag, but in a plastic container.

I don't understand Cereal Tiller's joke either - I DO have plants in pots of compost on my boat and they are doing very well!

[Robbo]

The Kildwick design looks like it's been designed by an amateur, the only attractivething about it, is that it doesn't look like a cassette loo!

 

The airhead and the like do look like they mean business and made for the job, even they look kinda cheap.

[chubby]

Dear Canal shop man .

 

My comments do refer to the Airhead & Natureshead models and i believe my comments were not derogatory. I consider those two models & the separette Villa models to be the best available.

I also agree 100% & entirely appreciate the reasons why these models cost so much more than the cheaper versions . Ongoing design alterations aswell as the original R & D costs must be recovered and ultimately a profit generated afterwards.

Though i get this concept entirely , the costs of such models are high ( IMO ) . Therefore despite actually wanting one i cannot . However , i then choose not to buy one of the cheaper versions because as stated previously " theres no composting taking place " . It is , quite literally , a bucket of crap.

The 3 more expensive models do go someway to actually kickstarting the breakdown of the contents via the cranking handles & the fan , dessicating the contents & adding air aswell .

So , we are actually in agreement Sir . If your going buy one , then those 3 models are the best options .

We are also in agreement with the idea that the responsible thing to do is the store the dessicated contents for many months before seeking to dispose of it . Engine bay , gas locker , roof .. i don t know where but seeing as the contents have been at least partially dried out if not mostly then the actual " bulk " would be reduced somewhat. Whereas the £300 versions don t dry out the contents and don t begin the process of breaking down the toilet contents .

So we are in agreement there I believe.

My biggest concern is that this idea that one can dump thier toilets contents into the general rubbish is going to become commonplace as folk choose the cheaper versions over the better & more expensive versions .

I believe it is just wrong on any level whatsoever to dump 30 days worth of human solid waste into a bin knowing very well indeed that soon someone will be having to deal with . I consider it selfish & lazy & irresponsible.

So we are in agreement there also are we not .

 

So , just to be clear & repeat what I mentioned on a previous post : I actually think that these type of toilets are good and used responsibly are beneficial to the owner . But the costs of £700 are high ( for some people ) & i feel this encouraging folk to buy the £300 copycat .versions . Had i the means to buy a Natureshead id get one as do think they , when used responsibly , are worthwhile.

 

Cheers

[Robbo]

This seems to be a good overview of the airhead ( the natures head version looks a similar affair) It does seem one up from a cassette type loo. It's a shame however they look like a portable loo.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHLqcUHZ98w

Edited January 27, 2017 by Robbo

[chubby]

Robbo

 

I think you're right in that they don t look like what one might find at home & some will find that off putting whereas the cheaper versions do ..... a bit .

The Airhead & Natureshead are however designed for function, not aeshetics. Primarily aimed at ( i believe ) seagoing boats , especially in the US where there are ( i believe ) strict rules a bout the use of sea toilets dumping overboard . Such boats are often quite small and a holding tank will also be small and so the costs of emptying become excessive . So a toilet that breaks down solid content is worthwhile as the initial installation cost is , in time , recovered by negating pump out costs . At least thats how I understand it from reseaching these toilets on tinternet .

Personally , ive no problem with the way they look because they are designed to do a job first & looks come second . Now look on ebay at the £300 types . Do they look like function over form or vice versa . I think vice versa . What they look like is more important than how they function.

Consequently theres no breakdown of solid matter as this has not been at the heart of the design process . Wheras the Airhead & Natureshead started with the opposite mentality.

 

But , i ll say again , the cost is potentially prohibitive & i expect the cost , combined with aesthetics will mean the £300 copycat versions will sell well .

 

Cheers