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1800w Inverter or bigger?


Richard X

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Hi all,

 

I'm new to boating and have another question!

 

I'm having a 70' x 12' widebeam built and the boat builders are putting in a 1800w inverter as standard but I've been advised by another boater to upgrade to a 3500w if the budget will allow, bearing in mind that I'm new to boating and haven't got a clue and still learning about 12volts, sizes of alternators, engine size, etc, etc.

 

It will be live aboard and in a marina with electric hook up but I'm hoping to be a continuos cruiser in a few years if I can afford to retire smile.png

 

Thanks,

Richard.

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Hi all,

 

I'm new to boating and have another question!

 

I'm having a 70' x 12' widebeam built and the boat builders are putting in a 1800w inverter as standard but I've been advised by another boater to upgrade to a 3500w if the budget will allow, bearing in mind that I'm new to boating and haven't got a clue and still learning about 12volts, sizes of alternators, engine size, etc, etc.

 

It will be live aboard and in a marina with electric hook up but I'm hoping to be a continuos cruiser in a few years if I can afford to retire smile.png

 

Thanks,

Richard.

Does your builder who keeps suggesting this equipment know what white goods you are planning?

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In our experience what determines the size of the inverter is the startup current of a washing machine which is a lot larger then the current calculated by dividing the nameplate wattage of the machine by 230volts. Be aware model name inverter output may peak output not the required continuous output, or at least one hour rating. I think a 1800w inverter may rule most washing machines out but a 2500w inverter should suffice.

Don

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Depends on what you need to run, charge your phones etc and watch television takes very little, we have a 300watt inverter (But we only live on board in the summer) However if you want to run a washing machine and a heap of other stuff you will need a 3.5 kw inverter - and a lot of expensive, and probably short lived, batteries to power it. I think that it is easy to get carried away with stuffing electrical thingys into every corner of the boat, after a while you realise that you should have carried on living in a house. As a card carrying grumpy old git I think boats should be lit by paraffin, be equipped with an Elsan and only have a 12v black and white tv, Oh, and if its too cold to hand start the diesel then the wife should bow haul the boat. Bloody hell here she comes...

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Does your builder who keeps suggesting this equipment know what white goods you are planning?

No, I'm buying their standard model without upgrades to get it in on budget but I now have a little extra cash to do essential upgrades, so I need to know what is essential at this stage and what can wait for another time when funds allow.

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No, I'm buying their standard model without upgrades to get it in on budget but I now have a little extra cash to do essential upgrades, so I need to know what is essential at this stage and what can wait for another time when funds allow.

In your other post you were talking tumble dryer, microwave and kettle, I think you may have dropped the electric cooker. If you are still going down that route you are going to need much more than 1800 watts. Even a 1800 watt inverter at full chat will draw a current of almost 200 amps out of your battery

 

I have a good 1500 watt inverter on our boat so I can run a low wattage kettle, or a small toaster but not while the bread is cooking and definitely not using the vacuum cleaner while any of the others are on.

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In your other post you were talking tumble dryer, microwave and kettle, I think you may have dropped the electric cooker. If you are still going down that route you are going to need much more than 1800 watts. Even a 1800 watt inverter at full chat will draw a current of almost 200 amps out of your battery

 

I have a good 1500 watt inverter on our boat so I can run a low wattage kettle, or a small toaster but not while the bread is cooking and definitely not using the vacuum cleaner while any of the others are on.

Thanks for that, I'm guessing a 3.5kw inverter 4 x 110amp batteries with room to add one more just in case, and have as many appliances as I can 12v or LPG while keeping power consumption to a comfortable minimum without going to the extreme of sitting in the dark? Well this is definitely a learning curve! smile.png

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Thanks for that, I'm guessing a 3.5kw inverter 4 x 110amp batteries with room to add one more just in case, and have as many appliances as I can 12v or LPG while keeping power consumption to a comfortable minimum without going to the extreme of sitting in the dark? Well this is definitely a learning curve! smile.png

Better to get to grips with it now and not after you move onboard,

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Against combi inverter/charger, separated are better IMHO because if one function of s combi fails it means you lose both while the combi is repaired

Phil

 

I know this is oft stated, and in principal, I agree, but in over 30 years of boating I cannot remember having either a battery charger, an inverter, or a 'combi' fail.

Maybe I have just been lucky, or maybe its because of not using 'cheap Chinese ebay stuff' or Halfords specials.

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Also make sure the inverter really is labelled in Watts (kW) and not VA (kVA). Many People think 1kVA = I Kw, it does not . Its a bit technical but a Watt could be a s little as 3/4 of a VA. Hence a well known "quality" brand has 3000 in its model number but is only rated at 2500 watts. Then as has been set make sure the wattage is continuous and not just for a short time.

 

I would suggest that you really need to go back and study what you were told in your other question. On the face of it you are still looking as if you intend to set up a short order battery destroying facility unless you will always be on a shoreline or have a generator running for many hours a day. If this sounds harsh then I am sorry. Just remember it is easy to destroy a battery bank if it is regularly over discharged and under charged.

 

How much have you budgeted for solar charging? I would suggest that that would be a more useful way to spend your extra cash and stick with a low output inverter. At least that way you are limited as to how much electricity mains equipment can draw from the battery. Better still go for a 150 to 1000 watt one until you can get your head around battery charging, discharging, ad required bank capacity.

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On the face of it you are still looking as if you intend to set up a short order battery destroying facility unless you will always be on a shoreline or have a generator running for many hours a day. If this sounds harsh then I am sorry. Just remember it is easy to destroy a battery bank if it is regularly over discharged and under charged.

 

 

This was some advice that the previous owners of my boat could have done with receiving so its great that Richard is on here asking and finding stuff out.

 

When I bought it at three years old it was on a complete new set of batteries, in fact it was a "selling point" on the features on apolloduck. One of first thing I asked was why new batteries? To be rather sheepishly told they hadn't been told how to utilise them and were running them down to quite low volts and then starting to charge them (they had dishwasher and washing machine onboard) and a Victron 3000 (which I suspect might the one that keeps on being anonymously mentioned as not being 3000w).

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................. and a Victron 3000 (which I suspect might the one that keeps on being anonymously mentioned as not being 3000w).

 

The Victron 3000 is indeed 3000Va at 25oC and is rated at 2400W at 25oC

 

It is downrated to :

2200w at 40oC

1700w at 65oC

 

It uses 20w on 'zero load' (ie just switched on it will use about 35Ah per day - the same as a fridge)

 

I still 'rate' the Victron above most other brands - they do provide the information and make no secret of the performance. You can make an 'informed decision'.

You may find it impossible to find the 'efficiency' ratings & other technical 'stuff' on other brands.

 

Understanding electrical storage, usage and replacement (generation) on a boat is a whole world (and potentially a very expensive one) away from being in a house where you have an 'unlimited' supply at the flick of a switch.

 

On a boat you will have to think - "I have the washing machine on, therefore I cannot use the hoover", etc etc.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
  • Greenie 1
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Hi all,

 

I'm new to boating and have another question!

 

I'm having a 70' x 12' widebeam built and the boat builders are putting in a 1800w inverter as standard but I've been advised by another boater to upgrade to a 3500w if the budget will allow, bearing in mind that I'm new to boating and haven't got a clue and still learning about 12volts, sizes of alternators, engine size, etc, etc.

 

It will be live aboard and in a marina with electric hook up but I'm hoping to be a continuos cruiser in a few years if I can afford to retire smile.png

 

Thanks,

Richard.

 

smiley_offtopic.gif

 

Not a particular helpful answer I'm afraid, but I do wonder where you hope to go CC-ing in the future with a massive 70' x 12' wide beam.

 

I notice your current location is in the North, so there are clearly options there, although the 70' length will rule out many of the canals on the Northern system.

 

If however you are thinking Grand Union, Lee & Stort, Regents, K&A, etc, then in my view a boat that is both as long and wide as that is likely to spoil the enjoyment that should go with cruising those waterways, (both yours and other peoples).

 

Back on topic, if you are not planning to venture away from a land line much for some years, you really only need the most basic way of keeping your batteries charged. Why not get the builder to fit just something to do that, but leave space for a massive battery gobbling combi to be fitted only as and when you go cc-ing. That way you can defer the large costs associated with it now, and when you do buy one, the warranty will actually coincide with you starting to make real use of it.

 

I know this is oft stated, and in principal, I agree, but in over 30 years of boating I cannot remember having either a battery charger, an inverter, or a 'combi' fail.

Maybe I have just been lucky, or maybe its because of not using 'cheap Chinese ebay stuff' or Halfords specials.

 

We are currently grappling with a Combi that lets us down intermittently. Admittedly it iws quite old, but it was initially not a cheapie, and certainly neither Chinese nor Halfords.

 

I think the "all eggs in one basket thing" is quite a major consideration, and it is likely to be replaced by separate charge and inverter.

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This is all getting very, very silly.

A lot of very sensible advice.

A lot of hair shirt advice

So how can Richard sort out a happy medium? I couldn't in his shoes.

In no particular order:-

  • 4 x 110ah 12v batteries is just not going to cut it. 10 of the best quality is about right.
  • Indeed looking at the sort of consumption envisaged, I'd say fit a 5Kw TravelPower NOW. Because retrofitting later could be a complete pain, different engine mounts, more substantial engine rails, brackets and flexible mounts (these depend on the engine weight at front and back. That sensibly is an engine out jobbie. Been there, but I was brought up taking engines out of cars and putting them back. Talk to Beta - they're very approachable if you handle them politely. They may be able to supply the bits at the beginning and add the TP later (?).
  • Again and at least confirmed by others, go 24V from the outset. High powered inverters are much more reliable at 24v than at 12v. 24v alternators are more suited to continuous running at high current (because most of them are designed for commercial use) than 12v units. The don't cost twice as much, either.
  • Batteries - you may think that adding extra 'later' is no big deal, but looking at several threads on here, we discover that the existing layout made it a complete pain, not enough lateral room, not enough height. So at least tell Collingwood what your ultimate battery capacity would be and get them to make the full space available now.
  • Learn from other people's actual experience and not from supposition.....

 

 

  • Greenie 1
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Also make sure the inverter really is labelled in Watts (kW) and not VA (kVA). Many People think 1kVA = I Kw, it does not . Its a bit technical but a Watt could be a s little as 3/4 of a VA. Hence a well known "quality" brand has 3000 in its model number but is only rated at 2500 watts. Then as has been set make sure the wattage is continuous and not just for a short time.

 

I would suggest that you really need to go back and study what you were told in your other question. On the face of it you are still looking as if you intend to set up a short order battery destroying facility unless you will always be on a shoreline or have a generator running for many hours a day. If this sounds harsh then I am sorry. Just remember it is easy to destroy a battery bank if it is regularly over discharged and under charged.

 

How much have you budgeted for solar charging? I would suggest that that would be a more useful way to spend your extra cash and stick with a low output inverter. At least that way you are limited as to how much electricity mains equipment can draw from the battery. Better still go for a 150 to 1000 watt one until you can get your head around battery charging, discharging, ad required bank capacity.

 

Thanks for that Tony! That all makes perfect sense, so I'll stick with the 1800w inverter they're putting in as standard, then upgrade batteries, inverter, etc, when I know what I'm doing otherwise I'll kill the batteries and have a set up that's not working in harmony with each other?

I won't be able to afford to put solar panels in until next year but I'm planning on having 4 or 6

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This is all getting very, very silly.

A lot of very sensible advice.

A lot of hair shirt advice

So how can Richard sort out a happy medium? I couldn't in his shoes.

In no particular order:-

  • 4 x 110ah 12v batteries is just not going to cut it. 10 of the best quality is about right.
  • Indeed looking at the sort of consumption envisaged, I'd say fit a 5Kw TravelPower NOW. Because retrofitting later could be a complete pain, different engine mounts, more substantial engine rails, brackets and flexible mounts (these depend on the engine weight at front and back. That sensibly is an engine out jobbie. Been there, but I was brought up taking engines out of cars and putting them back. Talk to Beta - they're very approachable if you handle them politely. They may be able to supply the bits at the beginning and add the TP later (?).
  • Again and at least confirmed by others, go 24V from the outset. High powered inverters are much more reliable at 24v than at 12v. 24v alternators are more suited to continuous running at high current (because most of them are designed for commercial use) than 12v units. The don't cost twice as much, either.
  • Batteries - you may think that adding extra 'later' is no big deal, but looking at several threads on here, we discover that the existing layout made it a complete pain, not enough lateral room, not enough height. So at least tell Collingwood what your ultimate battery capacity would be and get them to make the full space available now.
  • Learn from other people's actual experience and not from supposition.....

 

 

So when I thought this mine field was only the size of my back garden it's turning out to be the size of a football pitch! I'm going back to Collingwood in a couple of weeks just to confirm everything so I'll mention 24v volts and see what they say, I've already spoken to Beta and they were very, very helpful and gave me lots of advice, Collingwood were putting in a Canaline as standard but I wanted to upgrade to a Beta which is why I asked for their advice. Ian at Collingwood has also been very open and honest and given me some good advice which is why I've chosen them to build my boat. smile.png

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Thanks for that Tony! That all makes perfect sense, so I'll stick with the 1800w inverter they're putting in as standard, then upgrade batteries, inverter, etc, when I know what I'm doing otherwise I'll kill the batteries and have a set up that's not working in harmony with each other?

 

I won't be able to afford to put solar panels in until next year but I'm planning on having 4 or 6

If you do some research in the inverter your looking at. Some of them can be combined to merge the power (like Victron). So when/if you need more you could just add another 1800 watt one.

 

Note that the inverters have to be compatable with each and usually have a link lead between them. Adding two different AC sources is really dangerous as you can increase the voltage drastically.

Edited by Robbo
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Hi all,

 

I'm new to boating and have another question!

 

I'm having a 70' x 12' widebeam built and the boat builders are putting in a 1800w inverter as standard but I've been advised by another boater to upgrade to a 3500w if the budget will allow, bearing in mind that I'm new to boating and haven't got a clue and still learning about 12volts, sizes of alternators, engine size, etc, etc.

 

It will be live aboard and in a marina with electric hook up but I'm hoping to be a continuos cruiser in a few years if I can afford to retire smile.png

 

Thanks,

Richard.

 

There will be many and often conflicting replies. A few points to remember are.....

 

Does the " Boatbuilder " live aboard when he gives you his liveaboard lifestyle advice? ask him how many years he has lived aboard and you will probably find he lives in a house so has no real clue as to living on a boat full time as it is way way different to hobby boating.

You are doing right by asking the forum members but remember non of us will agree.

A big Inverter as you suggest 3.5 will need loads of battery power and/or charging regime to be of any use.

Altenatives such as Travelpower in conjunction with a smaller inverter is a good way to go.

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There will be many and often conflicting replies. A few points to remember are.....

 

Does the " Boatbuilder " live aboard when he gives you his liveaboard lifestyle advice? ask him how many years he has lived aboard and you will probably find he lives in a house so has no real clue as to living on a boat full time as it is way way different to hobby boating.

You are doing right by asking the forum members but remember non of us will agree.

A big Inverter as you suggest 3.5 will need loads of battery power and/or charging regime to be of any use.

Altenatives such as Travelpower in conjunction with a smaller inverter is a good way to go.

I wouldn't spend the money on a travel power if your going to be in marina for some years and then when you do start to use it the warranty has run out years ago! Get it when you decide you need it, you will know if it's right for you at the time or if a separate genny is more appropriate. The bigger the main engine the more appropriate a separate generator is.

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I wouldn't spend the money on a travel power if your going to be in marina for some years and then when you do start to use it the warranty has run out years ago! Get it when you decide you need it, you will know if it's right for you at the time or if a separate genny is more appropriate. The bigger the main engine the more appropriate a separate generator is.

 

I agree with that. I was meaning when he was cruising. Whilst in a marina plugged in for a few years I wouldnt blow a load of money on a big inverter either. The thing is there is no one system to suit all boats and users it simply doesnt exist and I hear of too many " Boatbuilder experts " who dont even live aboard giving useless advice. I dont ever play golf so I dont give advice on it but with boatbuilders thats often not the case.

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