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Brexit 2017

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33 minutes ago, peterboat said:

No just leave no dosh paid as they owe us fortune

That’s the one thing you can be certain won’t happen. Like it or not, we will be giving them the best part of £50 billion, and we’ll be paying an annual fee for the whole of any transition period, plus God knows what else.

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1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

We'll see if that is what actually happens shall we? Both Norway and Switzerland (who are not in the EU in case you didn't notice) both pay into the EU coffers, even though they have no say in policy. If you seriously believe that the UK is going to get any form of trade deal at all (other than WTO so that we can then 'thrive' like Mauretania) without payment into the EU you are seriously delusional. Without any payments we will get a worse deal than Norway, not out of vindictiveness but because that is how a club works. Try walking into your local Conservative Club (if you wish) and demand a drink at the bar despite having no membership, no affiliation and not in the company of a member, you'll be politely ignored. I suppose we'd better get used to the idea.

Well if that's how the club works, i.e. pay a fee and we will let you sell your goods to us, perhaps we should say, fine, and then charge them an equivalent amount to sell their stuff to us. Fees are being paid, everybody is happy.

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6 minutes ago, Phil. said:

Well if that's how the club works, i.e. pay a fee and we will let you sell your goods to us, perhaps we should say, fine, and then charge them an equivalent amount to sell their stuff to us. Fees are being paid, everybody is happy.

Do Norway and Switzerland do that? not that I've heard. UK (population circa 60 million) negotiating with the EU (population circa 450 million (without the UK)) so tell me who is the junior partner in these negotiations? Do you think we are going to be setting the terms when we negotiate with the US (population circa 325 million) as well?:wacko:

 

Have you not noticed how many of the so-called 'red lines' seem to be turning green when reality hits?

Edited by Wanderer Vagabond

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13 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Do Norway and Switzerland do that? not that I've heard. UK (population circa 60 million) negotiating with the EU (population circa 450 million (without the UK)) so tell me who is the junior partner in these negotiations? Do you think we are going to be setting the terms when we negotiate with the US (population circa 325 million) as well?:wacko:

 

Have you not noticed how many of the so-called 'red lines' seem to be turning green when reality hits?

Once again you attempt and advance this Junior Party in any Negotiations rhetoric , its simply conjecture on your part , for example more German Cars are exported to the UK than any other Country in Europe , how does that make the UK a junior Party in any negotiation with a Europe which Germany dominates Economically ?

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18 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

".....£350 million a week. Let's fund our NHS instead" 

 

No! we can't do that, because there was never going to be £350 million a week. Let's increase tax by £40 billion a year to fund our NHS instead ..... :(

 

Brexit - an absolute disgrace!

 

P.S. £40 billion a year is £770 million a week....

Are you thinking that a hard Brexit will be the beginning of the rebuilding of the biggest empire in the world again? Is that your goal?

 

I think it is equally true that we wont be creating the biggest empire in the world with the Brexiteers in charge.

I think Peter is simply alluding to the fact that we didn't have an Empire due to being Risk Averse and not seizing our Opportunities , in fact I would go further and say that you couldn't raise enough Englishmen nowadays to invade the Isle of Wight

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2 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Do Norway and Switzerland do that? not that I've heard. UK (population circa 60 million) negotiating with the EU (population circa 450 million (without the UK)) so tell me who is the junior partner in these negotiations? Do you think we are going to be setting the terms when we negotiate with the US (population circa 325 million) as well?:wacko:

 

Have you not noticed how many of the so-called 'red lines' seem to be turning green when reality hits?

Neither of the two countries mentioned hold the same clout we do in terms of economy, security apparatus and military, all things the eu want, but in exchange for nothing in return. Now unfortunately we have a situation, where our PM, and our civil service all wanted to remain, and it appears as if they are doing their level best, to make a complete hash of leaving. I mean as a lay person, I am staggered at the incompetence that is being shown presently. I am just hoping it is all some ruse that is being done to confuse the eu until the last possible minute, at which point we deliver them a take it or leave it position. I do however doubt this is the case given the players involved. When I voted leave I did not know at that point Teresa May would be leading to process. I'm not sure my decision would have changed, but I would have been more concerned, given what an utterly useless Home Secretary she was. 

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44 minutes ago, Phil. said:

When I voted leave I did not know at that point Teresa May would be leading to process. I'm not sure my decision would have changed, but I would have been more concerned, given what an utterly useless Home Secretary she was. 

From what you say, is it fair to assume that you believed that David Cameron would have been leading the process and, if so, what on earth were you expecting to be different? He had just been to the EU, told them that we would be having a referendum if they didn't give him some big concessions, and they gave him pretty much nothing.

 

In fact, given that he was a leading campaigner on the remain side of the campaign, what on earth made you think that he would make a good job of the leaving process.

 

You are getting exactly what you voted for, even if you didn't think it was what you were voting for :(

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Parahandy said:

Totally agree Mike and I think many have been waiting for this for a long time

I think several countries are quietly sitting back and watching with interest as to what happens with the UK, thats why Brussels wants to make it as hard as possible to discourage anyone else leaving. The Balkan countries are all desperate to join but they are takers, they have nothing to offer the EU, apart from more migrants. Half the population will leave the Balkans if they get to join the club.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5773107/How-Albanian-drug-lords-knife-wielding-goons-exploiting-Europes-porous-borders.html

 

Here you go LV some more information on my supposed " fictitious foreign criminals " originating from the EU . I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who works with Prostitutes in Luton in an attempt to take them off the streets , she tells me that Romanian Criminals now virtually control Prostitution in most of our major towns and cities 

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5 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

I think several countries are quietly sitting back and watching with interest as to what happens with the UK, thats why Brussels wants to make it as hard as possible to discourage anyone else leaving. The Balkan countries are all desperate to join but they are takers, they have nothing to offer the EU, apart from more migrants. Half the population will leave the Balkans if they get to join the club.

At times Mike it almost feels like destiny that the UK should be in this position pursuing BREXIT , the EU is a trading bloc and nothing more , these European Bureaucrats have nobody but themselves to blame for the current position . I think Macron is slowly being found out in France also .

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Any out is better than no out :DJust thought I might mention it again  seeing as everyone else is still covering old ground :cheers: obviously just walking away would be better than a bad deal but again any out is better than staying in.

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14 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

You are getting exactly what you voted for, even if you didn't think it was what you were voting for :(

 

No, if you don't get what you voted for, it's a simple case of not getting what you voted for. If you buy a product and it fails live up to its claims, you've been sold a pup. A rip off. A fraud. But, alot on here would claim that that is perfectly acceptable behaviour of an MP. It all depends on what standards you expect. We should expect that our representatives fail us, it's what so many would pass as normal and acceptable. Having spiv-like integrity.

 

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19 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

No, if you don't get what you voted for, it's a simple case of not getting what you voted for. If you buy a product and it fails live up to its claims, you've been sold a pup. A rip off. A fraud. But, alot on here would claim that that is perfectly acceptable behaviour of an MP. It all depends on what standards you expect. We should expect that our representatives fail us, it's what so many would pass as normal and acceptable. Having spiv-like integrity.

 

You are of course correct. However when I voted I was fully aware that politicians would be in charge of us leaving and politicians of any colour are only bothered about themselves and their next appointment so we will probably not get a completely clean break as many wished for. However on a personal basis any out will be what I voted for so long as its out, we can then put this very short period in our history down to a case of been there done that and the generations to come which is of course what the vote was about not the immediate future can get on with things as I am sure they will.

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15 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

No, if you don't get what you voted for, it's a simple case of not getting what you voted for. If you buy a product and it fails live up to its claims, you've been sold a pup. A rip off. A fraud. But, alot on here would claim that that is perfectly acceptable behaviour of an MP. It all depends on what standards you expect. We should expect that our representatives fail us, it's what so many would pass as normal and acceptable. Having spiv-like integrity.

 

Aha! Claims eh???

 

You were given a choice of Leave or Remain - no more, and no less. So.... if we are no longer members of the EU at the end of the process, you will have got exactly what you voted for. If you dont like the way we have left when it happens, that's not a case of not getting what you voted for, it's a case of not getting what you thought you were voting for.... you just had some fixed, and probably unrealistic, expectations.

 

17 million people voting leave will not have had the same expectations... some will have been realistic, many will be disappointed.

 

In terms of the process, you also knew that the Conservative Government would be responsible for carrying out the process, with a vague chance of the Labour Government gaining the responsibility in the event of a General Election which they may have won, (they didnt). To expect something fairly specific, and significantly different to what is actually happening, was unrealistic, and probably deluded - which was exactly the goal of both sides of the campaign.

 

You are correct in identifying that you have been sold a pup and a rip off, but it was obvious that this was going to be the case long before you put your cross in the box.

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1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Aha! Claims eh???

 

You were given a choice of Leave or Remain - no more, and no less. So.... if we are no longer members of the EU at the end of the process, you will have got exactly what you voted for. If you dont like the way we have left when it happens, that's not a case of not getting what you voted for, it's a case of not getting what you thought you were voting for.... you just had some fixed, and probably unrealistic, expectations.

 

17 million people voting leave will not have had the same expectations... some will have been realistic, many will be disappointed.

 

In terms of the process, you also knew that the Conservative Government would be responsible for carrying out the process, with a vague chance of the Labour Government gaining the responsibility in the event of a General Election which they may have won, (they didnt). To expect something fairly specific, and significantly different to what is actually happening, was unrealistic, and probably deluded - which was exactly the goal of both sides of the campaign.

 

You are correct in identifying that you have been sold a pup and a rip off, but it was obvious that this was going to be the case long before you put your cross in the box.

 

I will decide if what happens has passed the test of what I voted for.

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18 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I will decide if what happens has passed the test of what I voted for.

Nothing truer than that :)

 

Whatever happens, the government and Tory ministers and politicians will tell us that it is exactly what the vote was for, and that the deal they have got is the best deal for the U.K., and Labour will tell us that it wasn’t what was voted for, and that they would have got a better deal.... and we don’t need to wait to see what happens to know that this will be true.

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14 hours ago, Parahandy said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5773107/How-Albanian-drug-lords-knife-wielding-goons-exploiting-Europes-porous-borders.html

 

Here you go LV some more information on my supposed " fictitious foreign criminals " originating from the EU . I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who works with Prostitutes in Luton in an attempt to take them off the streets , she tells me that Romanian Criminals now virtually control Prostitution in most of our major towns and cities 

As has been cited from Wikipedia, the Daily Wail is not an accurate source of any information so I can safely dismiss this story (without reading it) as utter bullox😉

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6 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

As has been cited from Wikipedia, the Daily Wail is not an accurate source of any information so I can safely dismiss this story (without reading it) as utter bullox😉

Are you actually attempting to tell us the article is entirely fictitious ? you say you are an ex copper, you know that article is factual 😀

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3 minutes ago, Parahandy said:

Are you actually attempting to tell us the article is entirely fictitious ? you say you are an ex copper, you know that article is factual 😀

If it is from the Daily Wail there is no point in reading it, it will be bullox.

 

As an ex copper I would say the nationality of a criminal is utterly irrelevent; just because there is a Jamaican drug dealer does it mean all jamaicans are drug dealers? Just because there was a welsh paedophile (musician) does it mean all welshmen are paedophiles? Just because Ian Brady was English does it mean all englishmen are murderers? Slightly beyond ridiculous I would suggest :wacko: So why do you want to make some facile link with any immigrants?

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1 minute ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

If it is from the Daily Wail there is no point in reading it, it will be bullox.

 

As an ex copper I would say the nationality of a criminal is utterly irrelevent; just because there is a Jamaican drug dealer does it mean all jamaicans are drug dealers? Just because there was a welsh paedophile (musician) does it mean all welshmen are paedophiles? Just because Ian Brady was English does it mean all englishmen are murderers? Slightly beyond ridiculous I would suggest :wacko: So why do you want to make some facile link with any immigrants?

I think you are trying to Verbal me which perhaps isn't that surprising given your previous occupation . Where in my Posts did I say any of this ?

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Just now, Parahandy said:

I think you are trying to Verbal me which perhaps isn't that surprising given your previous occupation . Where in my Posts did I say any of this ?

You quote some article making an issue about the nationality of a criminal, the inference must be that all Albaninans are knife wielding psychos, or why else make any mention of nationality? Criminals are criminals, nationality it irrelevant.

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