Hatton Locks record transit time

[nicknorman]

Why do you find it 'patronising twaddle'?

Because it is not for you to prescribe how others shall use or enjoy the canals. Especially when it is completely at odds with the original nature of the canals.

[MtB]

I am currently engaged in a three day westward dash to make a recently arranged Christmas rendezvous.

 

Much of my boating seems to involve trying to get somewhere by a deadline, and often that deadline is dusk as boating alone in the dark in winter is a bit silly.

 

.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[biggles47]

Because it is not for you to prescribe how others shall use or enjoy the canals. Especially when it is completely at odds with the original nature of the canals.

What's the original nature of the canals got to do with it? 99% of canal boating these days is about leisure. That's supposed to be a time to relax isn't it?

I am currently engaged in a three day westward dash to make a recently arranged Christmas rendezvous.

 

Much of my boating seems to involve trying to get somewhere by a deadline, and often that deadline is dusk as boating alone in the dark in winter is a bit silly.

 

.

Ok, fair enough. I just got the impression it was a kind of race for some. Each to their own I suppose.

[Victor Vectis]

Please take note of post #52.

[nicknorman]

99% of canal boating these days is about leisure. That's supposed to be a time to relax isn't it?

 

Leisure means different things to different people - and long may it be so. Some people's leisure activities include running marathons, climbing mountains, playing ball sports etc. Are these people all misguided in your opinion? Should they just be sitting on the couch watching telly and getting fat (or perhaps sitting on their boats watching the world go by)? I suggest it is incorrect to confuse leisure with lazing. Edited December 24, 2016 by nicknorman

[biggles47]

Leisure means different things to different people - and long may it be so. Some people's leisure activities include running marathons, climbing mountains, playing ball sports etc. Are these people all misguided in your opinion? Should they just be sitting on the couch watching telly and getting fat (or perhaps sitting on their boats watching the world go by)? I suggest it is incorrect to confuse leisure with lazing.

I said, relax not laze. I find running relaxing but it's certainly not lazing. Personally I don't see rushing people through locks a relaxing hobby, well maybe it is for the one steering.

 

You really shouldn't twist what people say you know. It's very off form.

[system 4-50]

Living requires care.

Boating requires extra care.

Boating single-handed requires extra care.

Boating after dusk requires extra care.

Doing these things is not necessarily silly. Doing these things without stopping to consider the risks and make a judgement based on your own capabilities, now that is silly.

And if it all goes pear-shaped, you may miss out on all those mindless years with the zimmer frame in the care home...

[neilb12]

Many thanks for the positive comments and indication of times, I seem to have used up my quota of up votes for today though!

In hindsight I should have put the details from post 43 in my opening post, judging from some earlier comments this could have put some people’s minds at rest. We are not a bunch of hooligans who don’t have a clue and please be assured this will not be a race and “sod the rest”.

Hatton Locks are only a small part of the trip and a bit of fun to see how quick we can transit without inconveniencing others. Hence the request, out of interest, to see if there was a time record.

[RLWP]

Hence the request, out of interest, to see if there was a time record.

 

 

You don't need a record time, just a target for your team. I'd aim for two hours

 

Richard

[nicknorman]

I said, relax not laze. I find running relaxing but it's certainly not lazing. Personally I don't see rushing people through locks a relaxing hobby, well maybe it is for the one steering.

You really shouldn't twist what people say you know. It's very off form.

The background to my reaction is of course a rile against people who say "Oh, you can't hurry on the canals!" whilst making their point by going out of their way to do everything at half speed like a slowmo film, and as inefficiently as possible. Whilst holding everyone else up of course. It is a power/control thing.

 

Anyway I don't think I have twisted what you said. You said it shouldn't be a race since it was supposed to be a leisure activity. I pointed out that leisure means different things to different people. Some people run. You said you find running relaxing - fair enough - but I say some people like to run competitively, ie a race, my husband Jeff for example. So presumably in your opinion he shouldn't consider competing in running races a leisure activity? (in which case I'm not sure what it would be). Or is a running race a leisure activity but a canal race not a leisure activity in your view? What about the BCN 24hr marathon challenge. That is very much a race (or can be if you take it seriously) so presumably in your book that is not a leisure activity?

 

Bottom line is don't tell other people how they should spend their leisure time. Nobody likes a control freak.

[RLWP]

That is very much a race

 

Time trial? I'm not sure what the description of a competition is that has a maximum speed

 

Richard

[nicknorman]

Time trial? I'm not sure what the description of a competition is that has a maximum speed

 

Richard

No for most people I'd say it was a race since it is not possible to reach the maximum permitted speed. Cruisers maybe can, perhaps even TO can but there's no way Telemachus or other deep drafted boat can, except maybe between Old Turn and Rotton Pk Jn. And certainly a race through locks, which is pertinent to the theme of this thread. Edited December 24, 2016 by nicknorman

[Paul C]

 

Time trial? I'm not sure what the description of a competition is that has a maximum speed

 

Richard

 

A time trial is a race where the competitors individually do the course, or effectively (for example a cycling time trial where the competitors set off at 2 minute intervals). The aim is still to do it in the fastest time.

 

I think you're thinking of a "Regularity Rally", where the aim is to do a fixed distance course in a set time, ie be as close to possible to a defined average speed.

 

BCN challenge sets the overall time (24hrs) but not the overall distance, so isn't quite the same. Although the individual legs without locs act, effectively, as a regularity rally for that leg. Of course, if it has locks then unless the times declared are wildly unrealistic it is difficult to police overspeeding since the overall time includes the lock and the driving the boat in between. It is notable that some of the distances between the nodes are massively inaccurate, thus diluting the effectiveness of checking for overspeeding.

[cheshire~rose]

Dave and I were joined by Barry when we locked NB Alnwick and NB Adante down Hatton after the Laporth banter one year in the pouring rain and our time was (IIRC) 1 hour and 55 minutes, two experienced helmsmen and three experienced lockwheelers and the promise of a cuppa or two

[john6767]

A time trial is a race where the competitors individually do the course, or effectively (for example a cycling time trial where the competitors set off at 2 minute intervals). The aim is still to do it in the fastest time.

 

I think you're thinking of a "Regularity Rally", where the aim is to do a fixed distance course in a set time, ie be as close to possible to a defined average speed.

 

BCN challenge sets the overall time (24hrs) but not the overall distance, so isn't quite the same. Although the individual legs without locs act, effectively, as a regularity rally for that leg. Of course, if it has locks then unless the times declared are wildly unrealistic it is difficult to police overspeeding since the overall time includes the lock and the driving the boat in between. It is notable that some of the distances between the nodes are massively inaccurate, thus diluting the effectiveness of checking for overspeeding.

They managed to check the speed one one boat in this years competition, goodness knows what speed they are doing (or was speed just the quoted reason!).

 

Anyway I am also very much against the take your time comments, as long as I am not breaking any rules are behaving recklessly, I would like to go at the pace of my choosing.

[stagedamager]

Lets not forget there is a big difference between rushing a lock, and efficent lock / flight working. Rushing a lock can sometimes end up causing hangings and sinkings, whereas efficent lock working tends to be just that. Having a bank team to set ahead where possible can save much time, and also having a team closing behind you helps., the boat therefore keeps moving, as has been mentioned in previous posts. Sometimes this can be mis-interpreted as rushing, but is far from it!

 

Kind Regards

 

Dan

[biggles47]

The background to my reaction is of course a rile against people who say "Oh, you can't hurry on the canals!" whilst making their point by going out of their way to do everything at half speed like a slowmo film, and as inefficiently as possible. Whilst holding everyone else up of course. It is a power/control thing.

 

Anyway I don't think I have twisted what you said. You said it shouldn't be a race since it was supposed to be a leisure activity. I pointed out that leisure means different things to different people. Some people run. You said you find running relaxing - fair enough - but I say some people like to run competitively, ie a race, my husband Jeff for example. So presumably in your opinion he shouldn't consider competing in running races a leisure activity? (in which case I'm not sure what it would be). Or is a running race a leisure activity but a canal race not a leisure activity in your view? What about the BCN 24hr marathon challenge. That is very much a race (or can be if you take it seriously) so presumably in your book that is not a leisure activity?

 

Bottom line is don't tell other people how they should spend their leisure time. Nobody likes a control freak.

Lol...Yeah, maybe a tongue in cheek emoticon might have helped.

 

Anyway, Happy Christmas you lot, I'm off again...

 

bassplayer x

[ditchcrawler]

By harassing those in front who you catch up?

Or turning locks in front of those coming the other way.

[davidg]

Lets not forget there is a big difference between rushing a lock, and efficent lock / flight working. Rushing a lock can sometimes end up causing hangings and sinkings, whereas efficent lock working tends to be just that. Having a bank team to set ahead where possible can save much time, and also having a team closing behind you helps., the boat therefore keeps moving, as has been mentioned in previous posts. Sometimes this can be mis-interpreted as rushing, but is far from it!

 

Kind Regards

 

Dan

Quite.

 

The kids used to ask me which task they should be doing, my answer was that we should practice the boating equivalent of totaalvoetbal: work out which job needs doing next, work out who's closest to the location it needs doing in, if that's you, go do it. Once they got it, it was a joy to watch, much like Holland '74.

 

The acronym IPDE in this clip sums it up rather well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR1Y_Uv99Z4

[roland elsdon]

1.45 used to be normal with no interference, Winter first boat on in the am, with empty locks, pair of boats two people, bike.

Efficiency and never stopping. Course we shut gates. Remember going up on those locks there is no swirl you can put the paddle straight up, with 2 big boats. Coming down about the same. I think we cracked 1 30 once going down hill, with paired with a ucc boat and a load of keen boy sprouts, on a mission.

Course once you had got up Hatton so fast you then had to get up lapworth. A slightly different endeavour with two boats and two people.

 

Talking of challenge and distance kettlebrook to the nelson at braunston once in a day. That was epic.

[NickF]

Lets not forget there is a big difference between rushing a lock, and efficent lock / flight working. Rushing a lock can sometimes end up causing hangings and sinkings, whereas efficent lock working tends to be just that. Having a bank team to set ahead where possible can save much time, and also having a team closing behind you helps., the boat therefore keeps moving, as has been mentioned in previous posts. Sometimes this can be mis-interpreted as rushing, but is far from it!

 

Kind Regards

 

Dan

I agree entirely with that Dan! and I would add to it that part of efficient working is not wasting water so making sure you don't start emptying a lock before the one below is filling.

[Ian Mac]

It took three of us 2hr 20mins which included a 5 minute pause whilst we restarted the Bolinder, they get cold! when you do this many locks on a flight this length with no longer pounds to warm them up. Being cold makes them even less reliable. We were also impeded by a Hobbler touting for business on the bottom three locks and getting well in the way! I don't think he had ever seen a boat strapping into a lock before, he certainly stood in all the wrong places, and even when shouted at didn't jump out of the way - idiot!
We strapped in all the way down which isn't the fastest way of doing things, but we didn't hit the bottom gates once! When Strapping you don't pull the paddles till your absolutely sure that the boat is stopping and the gates are near enough shut, and then you have to do it slowly to start with, till the gates are shut. Well you do in my book from RTBC, because its OK for it to be a contact sport but its not OK to destroy things!

--

Cheers Ian Mac

oh and here is a time lapse of the passage which you may wish to watch - https://youtu.be/IbyngTXBYjM

[GUMPY]

haven't seen RTBC mentioned in a while the NPBC will be mentioned soon

[Maffi]

I'm not clear how doing locks quickly could inconvenience anyone else?

 

It depends how many locks in front are set.

[starman]

I've looked back to our blog and back in 2010 we went up in an hour and a half starting an empty flight at about five pm with another crew - they had a daughter who walked ahead setting locks, the two wives drove between the locks - in tight parallel, which was the key to efficient travelling - and the two husbands worked the paddles and closed up. I remember it all got very competitive - he was a very fit 50 year old and I was just feckin' knackered but wouldn't give best.

I recall we both wanted to get to the top in time to watch a World Cup match on tv. If it was England, it probably wasn't worth it!