When 80 year old boats need more repairs........

[alan_fincher]

I am finally getting around, (months late!), to putting a few pictures in our blog that reflect the steelwork carried out on one of our historic boats, "Sickle", starting at the beginning of August.

 

Anybody interested in seeing what kind of work may be expected on a boat that has had a life of 80 years, and sadly neglected for much of that time, may be interested to take a look.

 

Alternatively those who feel superior because "we clearly cannot afford a proper boat", might also like to take a look just to gloat(!)

 

Anyway here is the first post, where it is being decided and agreed exactly what will get tackled, and what is perfectly OK after 80 years, and can be left alone for at least another 10 years.

 

Blog linky.

 

I'll follow this up, hopefully soon, with some pictures of the excellent and meticulous work carried out by Graeme at Stockton Dry Dock - who, incidentally, I recommend completely without reservations.

[koukouvagia]

You are absolutely right, Alan.

We have just taken our butty Hampton up to WFBCo (now Stockton Dry Dock) to have a huge amount of work done. We have finally given up the unequal struggle to maintain the wooden back cabin and we are going to have a steel one instead. When the old cabin was removed the extent of the corrosion of the hull, mainly from the inside out) became apparent and most of the back end is having to be rebuilt.

We knew we had a problem when we were descaling the bilges and knocked a hole in the hull earlier in the year.. (Talk about fingers in the dyke!)

Graeme Pearce is doing all the steel work, Reg Thompson is going to rebuilt the inside of the back cabin and Dave Moore has agreed to do the graining and lettering. We're also going to be beefing up the batteries and charging system. We're hoping it will be ready for the shows next year.

 

The back cabin is now all gone.

 

A bit of a patchwork.

Edited December 20, 2016 by koukouvagia

[Bee]

I sympathise but when its done you will have a very good boat. There are people out there with boats much, much newer who will be doing much the same work and when its done they will have a very average boat. On balance I think an old 'historic' boat offers a whole lot more pleasure. I of course, have a nice, new boat .......

[alan_fincher]

You are absolutely right, Alan.

We have just taken our butty Hampton up to WFBCo (now Stockton Dry Dock) to have a huge amount of work done.

 

Good lord - that makes ours look mild by comparison - although to be fair yours is over 20 years older!

 

At least we didn't have to disturb more than the hull.

 

I'll do a further posting that details some of the work as soon as I can organise it.

 

In the meantime we now have "Flamingo" back from her engine rebuild, and are currently on our way home with her, (we are currently overnighting near Rugby) Needless to say removal of the 80 year old engine room roof also generated the need for some steelwork. Apparently the fact that there proved to be some resin body filler in there means that some of the steel W J Yarwood originally put there must have gone missing over the years.

 

Still, we love them really, don't we!

[Keeping Up]

After Sickle, and before Hyperion - Graeme had the chance to work on a much newer boat (keeping Up is a mere 25 years old) and here is a picture of some of his excellent work. I'm collecting her from Stockton tomorrow.

 

[canals are us?]

It's nice that our heritage is being renovated for future custodians, the same as historic houses. We are only caretakers in our lifetime.

 

Interested to see the new steelwork.

 

James

[Jrtm]

You are absolutely right, Alan.

We have just taken our butty Hampton up to WFBCo (now Stockton Dry Dock) to have a huge amount of work done. We have finally given up the unequal struggle to maintain the wooden back cabin and we are going to have a steel one instead. When the old cabin was removed the extent of the corrosion of the hull, mainly from the inside out) became apparent and most of the back end is having to be rebuilt.

We knew we had a problem when we were descaling the bilges and knocked a hole in the hull earlier in the year.. (Talk about fingers in the dyke!)

Graeme Pearce is doing all the steel work, Reg Thompson is going to rebuilt the inside of the back cabin and Dave Moore has agreed to do the graining and lettering. We're also going to be beefing up the batteries and charging system. We're hoping it will be ready for the shows next year.

 

P1210260.jpg

The back cabin is now all gone.

 

P1210279.jpg

A bit of a patchwork.

Seams to be a lot of butties now are needing this work alot are very thin at the back, would have thought it would be the front on a butty but its mostly the rear.

[koukouvagia]

Seams to be a lot of butties now are needing this work alot are very thin at the back, would have thought it would be the front on a butty but its mostly the rear.

I'd already had a new steel bottom and footings when we bought the boat in 1994. These are still fine.

The reason that the back end needed attention is rather complicated. At some stage in its past a counter had been added. Then this was taken off (sometime in the 70s) and the rear end restored. This had been badly done - using thin steel and pretty awful welding. Because it was coated in layers of bitumen the extent of the poor workmanship wasn't apparent. Fortunately this poor welding was above the waterline.

There had been patches galore. In fact, the overplating had been overplated at one point.

The main cause for the corrosion was from the inside. Over the years water had seeped behind the lining of the back cabin and between the deck and the sides of the boat.

 

double overplating!

 

The extent of the corosion

Edited December 22, 2016 by koukouvagia

[Jrtm]

Ah not good all round then.

[Jrtm]

Must be a year for major work to be done,

Enterprise had new bottoms

Towys going on dock for lots of work

Your having big work done

Cactus is having work done

Im sure there are quite a few this winter / end of year

[Tonka]

You would have more to moan about if the boat was about 10 years old and needing all that work

[David Mack]

Seams to be a lot of butties now are needing this work alot are very thin at the back, would have thought it would be the front on a butty but its mostly the rear.

Looks to have rusted from the inside. Presumably the inside of the cabin was clad in timber, so water vapour from the cabin would condense on the iron/steel, which never got a chance to dry out, and never got painted either.

 

And, with reference to the thread title, presumably Hampton has had 20+ more years to rust away than Alan's GU boats.

[koukouvagia]

Looks to have rusted from the inside. Presumably the inside of the cabin was clad in timber, so water vapour from the cabin would condense on the iron/steel, which never got a chance to dry out, and never got painted either.

 

That's precisely what had happened. Also water had leaked in between the cabin side and the gunwales.

[alan_fincher]

Here is the next part of the story of "Sickle's" repairs carried out in August.

 

So committed am I to publishing them, that I have had to go to the Admiral Nelson to get an adequate Internet connection, there being no signal above the top lock here at Braunston(!)

[David Mack]

In the first photo are those rivets holding the guard irons to the new piece of plate?

[Keeping Up]

I called in for a look at Hampton this afternoon. Graeme is, of course, doing a fantastic job.

[MtB]

Here is the next part of the story of "Sickle's" repairs carried out in August.

 

So committed am I to publishing them, that I have had to go to the Admiral Nelson to get an adequate Internet connection, there being no signal above the top lock here at Braunston(!)

 

 

Very noble of you Alan. The forum appreciates your sacrifice.

[Jrtm]

Here is the next part of the story of "Sickle's" repairs carried out in August.

 

So committed am I to publishing them, that I have had to go to the Admiral Nelson to get an adequate Internet connection, there being no signal above the top lock here at Braunston(!)

I feel you pain, am i right in thinking that the internet just happens to start working as you down a pint? Or was that a myth?

[alan_fincher]

In the first photo are those rivets holding the guard irons to the new piece of plate?

 

 

Errm - no, I think they are real rivets in real holes put back to look like that is what they are doing, but because it is not possible to buy new guard iron in the right size and profile to match what should be there, the original has had to be repaired, and I think a decision taken to weld it on to the new sections of plate, rather than trying to remake all the original holes and riveting it. (I'll look at some more photos of later work when I have them available to check that is the correct explanation).

 

So unlike some modern boats where people pay money to put fake rivets on the outside, I think we were paying to have real ones replaced on the inside, but they are, I believe, no longer serving their original purpose! (Do Hudson owners ever have fake rivet heads inside the hull as well, I wonder, or is this a bit of one-upmanship!).

 

As more of the story unfolds you will see we have also had repaired the additional internal bracing put there for ice-breaking, even though this is diagnosed as the reason some of the worst wastage of the plates has happened over the 75 years since it was put there. We could have saved money, and left it out, because it now serves no purpose, but we wanted to impact the history of the boat as little as possible.

 

There will always inevitably be compromises. When the original restoration (or part restoration!) was done all the new sides, counter and cabin were done hot riveted. However a decision was taken with rebottoming that it is all welded in, with no rivets. But anyway, at 10mm, that bottom is far thicker than what it replaced, so is also "non original" in specification. I guess this applies to most rebottomed and refitted "Grand Union" boats - I doubt many have been rebottomed in recent years using hot riveting? Certainly Flamingo has not, although unusually, (and perhaps slightly worryingly!) , she retains her original 1936 riveted bottom under the engine room, something we are told is quite rare. It seems to be in surprisingly good order, and generated some interest at Brinklow Boat Services because "you don't get to see them very often, any more".

[Jrtm]

Ah see now you know where the other half of the hudson rivets are i think you should hand them back.

Think all my riverts have fallen out my hull.

[koukouvagia]

On Owl we had the rebuilt engine room hot-riveted by WFBCo. No one will ever see the rivets because they are under the handrails and behind the wooden panelling.

Has any modern boat, I wonder, got any concealed fake rivets?

 

Now you see them

 

Now you don't

 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

On Owl we had the rebuilt engine room hot-riveted by WFBCo. No one will ever see the rivets because they are under the handrails and behind the wooden panelling.

Has any modern boat, I wonder, got any concealed fake rivets?

 

u8.JPG

Now you see them

 

DSCF0254.JPG

Now you don't

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but YOU know they are there!

 

I boated past a modern boat we see regularly where the owner has some of the fake "rivets" on the black hull carefully picked out in white paint, (presumably to ensure you can't fail to notice he has some?)

[Chris-B]

I boated past a modern boat we see regularly where the owner has some of the fake "rivets" on the black hull carefully picked out in white paint, (presumably to ensure you can't fail to notice he has some?)

 

I must NOT say........................

[Jrtm]

On Owl we had the rebuilt engine room hot-riveted by WFBCo. No one will ever see the rivets because they are under the handrails and behind the wooden panelling.

Has any modern boat, I wonder, got any concealed fake rivets?

 

u8.JPG

Now you see them

 

DSCF0254.JPG

Now you don't

 

 

 

We had this done some are bolts but ill have those taken out and rivets put back in its only on the doors that wernt riveted back on as the new hinges dont come appart

[David Mack]

 

I boated past a modern boat we see regularly where the owner has some of the fake "rivets" on the black hull carefully picked out in white paint, (presumably to ensure you can't fail to notice he has some?)

 

I have seen similar where the top bend at the bow is painted in a traditional red and white layout with the fake rivet heads picked out in black!