End of garden mooring on a river

[i911e]

Hi all

We have bought a boat and applied for a licence. CRT have said there is no record of the mooring. The mooring is on a river and is in our garden.

They say to apply for an end of garden mooring but then we have to pay.

So if we dont apply for an EOG they wont give us a license we own up to the waters edge.

Has anyone got any pearls of wisdom to share before I respond to them

Thanks in advance and hoping someone can stop me going mad!

[Boat&Bikes]

Think you answered your own question. You own the land to the end of your garden, not the water running past it. Do as suggested and apply for an end of garden mooring.

 

Ian.

[hounddog]

is it a river with a public right of navigation?

[Dave Payne]

Can't see why you cant get a licence, you can easily get one and put the boat In a marina short term.

[hounddog]

Think you answered your own question. You own the land to the end of your garden, not the water running past it. Do as suggested and apply for an end of garden mooring.

 

Ian.

it's not quite as simple as that on a river.

[GoodGurl]

unless you apply for a CC license you will have to give them a home mooring address, if the home mooring address is your EOG mooring then that's what you have to do.

[Graham Davis]

Perhaps the first thing we need to know, is what river?

[i911e]

Thanks

Edited December 18, 2016 by i911e

[Sea Dog]

This is something you should have discovered in your pre-purchase research. I'd say don't fall out with CRT when you need to achieve their cooperation, or your first oversight may compound into a difficult situation.

[hounddog]

Hi Hounddog

Yes its a navigation and public usage. The navigation altered the course of the river. The original river is where we wanted to moor.

Our deeds show that we own and there is no access to the mooring only via our property.

Before we lived here there was a mooring and they payed council tax so must of been used as a residential.

I dont mind paying if its correct but the form for end of garden only asks what canal its on...not river. Its on The Weaver.

Thanks

it's quite likely you have riparian rights and the right to moor the boat on your land without paying a fee to CRT.

 

You will need to speak to someone who knows that river particularly but, in my understanding, the information you have from CRT is incorrect.

[i911e]

Hi Seadog

I have no intention of falling out with them.

I just want to know if its correct as ive read so much information on what to do and not do and the form is not to clear as thete is no river option.

 

Thanks

[hounddog]

A bit of further research shows that indeed there is PRN on the "The Weaver Navigation from Winsford Bridge to its junction with the Manchester Ship Canal at Marsh Lock and at Delamere Dock.".

 

it would be worth speaking to Nigel Moore who posts on this forum and Tony Dunkley if you can find him

[Jrtm]

You could apply to the council for a 3 foot deap 70 foot long by 8 foot wide swimming pool.

 

Put the pool at the very end of your garden, as its a river (may need to check) but unlike a canal you dont need to pay a joining fee.

 

You can make a small joing gap in the side wall to the river that could be filled by a few 10 foot long planks.

 

Now park you boat in your pool.

 

I know others who have done this and as said i belive on rivers you dont need to pay a joining fee. You also wouldnt need a licance for when the boat is in the pool as its not on crt licance waterway or ea for that matter.

 

If you do need to pay a joining fee youll prob find it cheaper than paing for end of garden licance and a boat licance in the long run may be a bit of a pain to start with but might be easyer.

Edited December 18, 2016 by billybobbooth

[Phoenix_V]

3 points occur to me;

It is normally assumed that on a river the riparian owner owns the bed of the river to the half way point, do your deeds have anything to say on this point?

CRT have been indulging in a land grab since they were formed and have been registering unregistered land that falls anywhere near or on their waterways do a search at the land registry search, if they have done this and your deeds are silent you may have an issue.

If this mooring was previously accepted by BW then it should be possible to produce evidence of this and whether they accepted that no end of garden rip off was payable.

Nigel Moore is the expert suggest contact him.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Phoenix_V

[hounddog]

But, categorically, if you own the land to the water's edge on this river you do not need permission to moor a boat there. You also require not a license, but a pleasure boat certificate to navigate the Weaver, you only need a license to navigate on the canals ( via the Anderton Lift or MSC. )

 

The distinction between a Pleasure Boat Certificate and a Standard Boat License is very important but be advised that CRT are trying to obfuscate the difference for reasons not worth speculating on here.

If it was me, I would say no more on open forum at present but get in touch with Nigel Moore through the messaging system.

Edited December 18, 2016 by hounddog

[i911e]

 

Its very confusing.

Thanks for the replies

Edited December 18, 2016 by i911e

[hounddog]

You may even, after a time, reach the conclusion CRT couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, let alone run a boat licensing system.

 

Alrhough, to be fair, I have always found that once you know what is right, the licensing office will usually end up agreeing.

[Tam & Di]

You've not confirmed which river you are on, but it is odds on that you do not have to sign any agreement with C&RT. They are very good at obfuscation, but just ascertain the correct postion with regard to the relevant canal enabling Act for where you are and hold firm.

[bizzard]

If the end of garden mooring is actually on a rivers lock cut and not on a part of the original river course, which is often a back water served by a weir. Because the lock and cut were usually built to canalize an unavigable fast flowing river. In this case the regs might be tricky, I don't know.

[dor]

If it is the Weaver as some have guessed (not unreasonably as the OP gives his location as Cheshire, then most of this is a Navigation rather than a river. Even where it follows the course of the original river it has been much excavated and widened. Thus if it is the Weaver, I suspect that the normal rules of a river do not apply.

[Horace42]

I have an EOG on the Coventry canal. I pay half of what is the going rate for mooring in the area.

It might help with your decision if you bear in mind that your mooring licence is based on two basic principles.

 

One is you must have permission from the owner of the land (and private deal to pay whatever you agree to the owner of the land for road access, parking and services etc).

 

The other is a 'mooring' licence does not give you a right to moor except at public moorings (14 days maximum )- it is only a licence to an exclusive right to continuously use that piece of water at the site which is granted by CRT. - similar to the 'cruising' licence, as we call it -which is not related to cruising but only to placing your boat in CRT waters.

 

 

spell checker does not like licence. it should be lincense. Does it matter!

Edited December 19, 2016 by Horace42

[Alan de Enfield]

I have an EOG on the Coventry canal. I pay half of what is the going rate for mooring in the area.

It might help with your decision if you bear in mind that your mooring licence is based on two basic principles.

 

 

 

It is also important to remember that Rivers have very different 'rules' to canals.

In general, C&RT have no rights to charge for moorings on rivers, and have no authority to either authorise or refuse a mooring.

[Graham Davis]

 

It is also important to remember that Rivers have very different 'rules' to canals.

In general, C&RT have no rights to charge for moorings on rivers, and have no authority to either authorise or refuse a mooring.

 

What about on canalised or "improved" sections?

[Alan de Enfield]

 

What about on canalised or "improved" sections?

 

Then there would be 'documentation' detailing the changes, this is why it was suggested earlier n the thread that the OP needs to identify the River (and which part of the River) he is talking about.

 

If it is (as suggested by some) the Weaver then much of it is 'man-made' and could, no longer be classed as a 'river' with a PRN.

[Horace42]

 

It is also important to remember that Rivers have very different 'rules' to canals.

In general, C&RT have no rights to charge for moorings on rivers, and have no authority to either authorise or refuse a mooring.

I didn't know that. Thanks. But can CRT refuse to issue a cruising license if you don't have a permanent approved mooring - or declare you are a CC..