Looked at my first boat today

[Saul Bee]

OK so took a look at my first boat today.

It didn't quite live up to the pictures on the interwebs everything was a bit more scruffy and it had a general air of neglect. It would need a really good clean and probably someone to have a good look over the electrics. There was a general smell of damp and I was told that there is water in the bottom of the hull under the floorboards so I am fairly certain that there is a leak somewhere. The sales guy mistook me for someone who really had some idea about boats and gave me some possibility about what was causing it but honestly I was a little overwhelmed and didn't take it in properly.

I think I would need to replace the stove and pipe as it was rusty and made me think that this could be where there might be some leakage. There are a couple of windows that could do with tidying up. One roof window you could see the wood of the fitting but it was dry. It did have a small inverter but I would need to upgrade it. Generally a lot of different jobs that would need to be done and internal soft furnishing stuff to replace.

Apparently it has been left untouched for a month.

It does however have a boat safety certificate.

I did quite like it and could see that it could be really nice if done up well. While the layout is not exactly what I pictured it could work well and the actual fittings like the sinks, shower and cooker seem really nice as do the work surfaces in the galley. No fridge but that's not a deal breaker and there were some things which I had not thought of which I liked such as a car radio.

I was quoted a price that was just over half of the advertised price and bought it back into the more sensible price range for a project boat.

It is a good £5000 under my budget so I would have some money for doing the work needed and possibly a mooring at the marina it is at for as long as is needed.

I didn't start the engine as I wouldn't have a clue either how to do it.

OK so thinking is it worth going back for a second look armed with a bit of advice from here about what to look for and how to start the engine up etc...

Would also like some recommendations of a surveyor in the Walton area as I would not consider it if the hull and engine are not sound as I would be able to sort the rest out given time.

[Pie Eater]

Take a boater with you next time and at least take the boat for a sail. You would not buy a used car without a test run or would you.

 

I hope someone local replies about a surveyor.

 

Steve

[OldGoat]

Walton - where?

-on the naze

-on the thames

or something else...

 

Modifying a boat is not like fettling a car, or tarting up a flat, because there are no rules as to how a boat is fitted out or even built - so trying to help on a description is fraught with problems.

Sorry, but folks look at the interior - but the real problems can be what's underneath and can't be seen.

If it smells - it's damp - but is that because the windows are closed - or as said because under the floor is wet/ flooded.

 

The price reduction may be an indication - other have walked away..

 

(sorry to be a misery....)

[zenataomm]

You don't make it easy to help you ......

Did you mean:

Walton, Warwickshire, England

Walton-on-Thames, Surrey, England

Walton, West Yorkshire, England

Walton, Warrington, England

Walton on the Naze, Essex, England

Walton, Somerset, England

 

If it's Warwickshire I'm very close and happy to accompany you, if it's any of the others, too far.

 

Cheers

[haggis]

A boat shouldn't smell damp just because it has been closed up for a month. You seem to have seen a lot of negatives with this boat so I would suggest looking at a few more to get a feel for what boats in your price range can be like

 

haggis

[Bee]

OK, So its a project but you do need to know its hulls age (to get an idea of what it should be like - 10 yrs should be ok, 20 yrs might well not be, any older may have overplating and need yet more) that is a really, really rough rule of thumb but you have to start somewhere.

Engine, working? horrible oily mess under a cruiser stern? smokey? noisy?

Builder, good reputation?, If the answer is yes then it may be worth your time and effort.

Builder, nothing special? then it will always be a budget boat even if you refit it in solid walnut and mahogany.

Just a few thoughts. good luck

[Alan de Enfield]

Don't be fooled into thinking a BSS gives you anything - except that it is unlikely to 'blow up' on you.

 

A BSS does NOT mean :

 

It will not sink

There is no damp

The toilet works

There is no water leak in the plumbing

The engine starts

The engine actually runs

The gearbox works

There is a propeller

There is no holes in the bottom / side / roof

The fire works

The Co alarm works

The smoke detector works

 

and so on and so on.

 

The BSS purely means that it is not a risk to any 3rd party (you can kill yourself if you want to)

 

I simply view the BSS as a piece of paper you don't have to worry about for the next 4 years.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Saul Bee]

Cheers for the replies.

 

Sorry I should have been clearer it is Walton on Thames at the Ting Dene Marina, didn't realize how many Waltons there were.

I wanted to give the negatives to see if there was anything that leapt out as a do not touch with a bargepole There are some things that I really like the engine is in it's own room and the bathroom is a walk through that can have both doors shut to make a reasonable space.

Haggis I figured that a boat should not smell damp but don't know enough to tick off the most likely causes. Certainly water under the floor boards doesn't sound right to me but I don't know if I would need a survey to find out exactly what was causing the issue.

My budget is small and I know that there will be a certain amount of work I will have to do. What I don't want is to buy something that is going to need replating or a whole new engine in the next few years. I can bear the cost of a few new bits if the price is right in the first place.

Probably should put a link up to the boat, it might help more.

 

http://www.tingdeneboatsales.net/boat-spec?BoatID=5997612

Edited December 10, 2016 by Saul Bee

[Tonka]

Cheers for the replies.

 

Sorry I should have been clearer it is Walton on Thames at the Ting Dene Marina, didn't realize how many Waltons there were.

I wanted to give the negatives to see if there was anything that leapt out as a do not touch with a bargepole There are some things that I really like the engine is in it's own room and the bathroom is a walk through that can have both doors shut to make a reasonable space.

Haggis I figured that a boat should not smell damp but don't know enough to tick off the most likely causes. Certainly water under the floor boards doesn't sound right to me but I don't know if I would need a survey to find out exactly what was causing the issue.

My budget is small and I know that there will be a certain amount of work I will have to do. What I don't want is to buy something that is going to need replating or a whole new engine in the next few years. I can bear the cost of a few new bits if the price is right in the first place.

Probably should put a link up to the boat, it might help more.

 

http://www.tingdeneboatsales.net/boat-spec?BoatID=5997612

So why did you look at a Springer ?

[Saul Bee]

So why did you look at a Springer ?

In all honesty budget. There also seem to be a lot of them about. I haven't got a particular preference.

[chubby]

Im a million miles from being knowledgeable about buying boats . Ive bought only one . But i am a dreadful cynic and im also very cautious when it comes to my money .

I have a real dislike to interiors painted in what I call " London Narrowboat White " . This is because it always strikes me as an attempt to snare a naive or novice buyer . What i mean by this is that the seller may hope to strike it lucky and get a dreamer to forget such inconveniences as surveys etc and buy it because they like the kitchen worktops or a poncey sink & tap in the bathroom . Im wary of boats that appear to be or are stated as being recently done up . " just blacked " or " just surveyed " or " just had an interior refit " etc etc .

Why bother blacking or surveying a boat that your looking to sell ? Why bother retiling a bathroom or fire surround ? It makes me ask questions of the seller and the answers i d come up with are negative ones .

 

However .... this is me and im a terribly cynical person with little trust in people.....unfortunately.

All that said , i do have soft spot for Springers .... not sure why but i just like them . If you liked enough about the boat then think hard about a second look , organise some questions in your head - other more experienced boaters might suggest some & check if engine starts from cold and maybe a short chug to test it .

The boat is the hull and the engine . Everything else is furniture . So if you like it enough after a second visit to consider going ahead & buying it then i d strongly recommend you arrange to have it surveyed . The surveyor should be organised by you , not the broker .

 

Please forgive my negativity , but unfortunately im just very wary these days . The sums of money involved aren t small and without having eyes wide open during the buying process there could be alot of upset involved afterwards .

Of course tho , whatever boat you eventually buy , you ll soon get used to putting your hands in your pockets for more money anyway

cheers

Edited December 10, 2016 by chubby

[Karen Lea Rainey]

The shape of that springer with the angled roof means the boat was built in either the late 70,s or very early eighties, similar boats can be purchased for a good 5k less than the advertised price particularly if you look in the midlands and further north. The rust coming down the pipe means there is a leak in the collar which lets rain in. There will be water (rainwater under the flooring). It can be pumped out without too much problem, dependent on how much or how long the water has been there is a good bargaining point on cost. Get someone to go with you who has reasonable experience with narrowboats next time. I would suspect that the boat may have been overplated or possibly needs to be by now, its approaching 40 years old. The boat looks tidy inside so its not been neglected inside, perhaps thats the same outside with the hull.

You will need to check its history if available with the seller, it could turn out to be the worst buy or best buy you ever make but look at other boats further north for better value.

[Chris-B]

Saul Bee

have a look at http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1992/Delphi-Marine-Narrowboat-3038388/United-Kingdom

and yes I am the broker

BUT if you want to have a look tomorrow it may give you another idea for your budget

.

and if you want I make a decent coffee for forum members

Chris

[Athy]

So why did you look at a Springer ?

A strange question; why not? Springers are popular and can represent good value.

The shape of that springer with the angled roof means the boat was built in either the late 70,s or very early eighties,

Well...any time from 1969 to 1983 in fact.

The broker is economical with the facts: no make of engine, for example. You'd think that a decent broker would be able to spell accommodation, too.

[nikvah]

"There was a general smell of damp and I was told that there is water in the bottom of the hull under the floorboards so I am fairly certain that there is a leak somewhere."

 

IMO I think this is reason enough to walk away. When you've researched and looked at a few more boats you'll find that this is definitely not normal. Boaters like water but like to keep it on the outside of their boats. If the ingress was easy to fix the seller would have done that 1st before painting and blacking the outside.

[WotEver]

If the ingress was easy to fix the seller would have done that 1st before painting and blacking the outside.

A good point well made.

[PaddingtonBear]

I would get and see Chris B a bit sharpish, you will learn a lot even if you dont like the boat. There are brokers and brokers and Chris is the good kind but be prepared to take all day as he can talk the hind leg off a donkey.

[Athy]

I would get and see Chris B a bit sharpish, you will learn a lot even if you dont like the boat. There are brokers and brokers and Chris is the good kind but be prepared to take all day as he can talk the hind leg off a donkey.

So, is Chris now running Tingdene Marina's brokerage?

[Arthur Brown]

IMO you should look at 100 boats before you get your pen and cheque book out. OK 90 of those can be web based viewings. BUT it's unlikely you will be fully wise about boat viewing the first time you go out.

[Laurie Booth]

Saul Bee

have a look at http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1992/Delphi-Marine-Narrowboat-3038388/United-Kingdom

and yes I am the broker

BUT if you want to have a look tomorrow it may give you another idea for your budget

.

and if you want I make a decent coffee for forum members

Chris

Looks good to me.

[Athy]

IMO you should look at 100 boats before you get your pen and cheque book out. OK 90 of those can be web based viewings. BUT it's unlikely you will be fully wise about boat viewing the first time you go out.

People say the same about houses, but when we were looking for our first house, in Sussex,we bought the second one that we viewed, and lived happily in it for 12 years. It just felt right. Perhaps we were lucky to discover it so soon.

[OldGoat]

Two Three points -

Some boats - and I think Springers - drained the front deck by allowing the water to drain into the bilge where the pump (if used...) got rid of it. An ideal mix of water and lost of oxygen. Great for loadsa' rust. Once its rusted you cant get at the hull to treat it.

 

Boats on the Thames are invariably much more expensive than (nearly) anywhere else. Based on 'a fool and his money'/ buyers' convenience / not knowing the market. Fine if you are sarf-east well off, not if funds are tight.

 

The lack of an engine description could be something 'nice' like a Lister or a Petter or something 'orrible and not well suited to low engine revolutions. Most car engines are not well suited to NBs (IMHO) and spare parts difficult to source.

[Alan de Enfield]

.............. Most car engines are not well suited to NBs (IMHO) and spare parts difficult to source.

 

Many of the engine marinisers - and there is even an article in his months PBO - rave over the fact that using an ex-vehicle engine means that parts are readily available from Car accessory shops, or even vehicle scrap yards, at a small fraction of the price compared to those from Vetus, Chandleries etc etc.

 

Have a look at the Lancing Marine website - they must be one of the UKs biggest marinisers and they use Ford & Peugeot engines.

 

What do you think were the origins of the illustrious BMC engines that still serve in 1000s of boats.

[Athy]

 

 

 

What do you think were the origins of the illustrious BMC engines that still serve in 1000s of boats.

I think they were built for Austin and Morris light vans. But, as BMC/BL/MG Rover/ whatever closed down some 10 years ago, perhaps parts are now hard to come by?

[Captain Pegg]

Many of the engine marinisers - and there is even an article in his months PBO - rave over the fact that using an ex-vehicle engine means that parts are readily available from Car accessory shops, or even vehicle scrap yards, at a small fraction of the price compared to those from Vetus, Chandleries etc etc.

 

Have a look at the Lancing Marine website - they must be one of the UKs biggest marinisers and they use Ford & Peugeot engines.

 

What do you think were the origins of the illustrious BMC engines that still serve in 1000s of boats.

But Alan, you are making a common yet important mistake of someone who spends his time on rivers and the sea.

 

This is a narrowboat built for the narrow canals of England (and Wales just to keep GD quiet) where the conventional concepts of time and space are strangely distorted with consequent effects on the established laws of science.

 

Therefore the normal concepts associated with successfully mass produced engines and the rates of corrosion and the strength of mild steel known to learned folk in the full sized world manifest themselves in strange ways on the canals. Ways that are known only to age old canal folk.

 

Indeed "all things are irrelevant"; as Einstein himself once said of the application of his work to the narrow canals of England (apparently being German he didn't know where Wales was).

 

JP