Strange battery charging problem

[WotEver]

Remember that the Smartgauge when installed (start now!)...

No point connecting SmartGauge 'now'. It won't work reliably on broken batteries and besides, an ammeter would be of far more use right now.

!/ You have a smartgauge, You've paid for it, go fit it NOW

[Johny London]

Ok, I'll fit the smartgauge then get a couple of new batteries

[cuthound]

It may be possible to recover your batteries if they are heavily sulphated, but not very old.

 

 

To do this you will need a means of charging at at least 15 volts, nearer 16 volts (assuming 12 volt batteries) to compensate for the lower temperatures the batteries will be at this time of year.

 

If you have a mid to high quality charger or combi unit, it should have a means of selecting an equalise charge mode.

 

Firstly charge the battery until it is fully charged at normal voltage (14.4-14.8 volts). This is when the charge current falls to about 1% of battery capacity and stays constant for at least 30 minutes.

 

Then and only then, increase the charge voltage by selecting the chargers equalising mode. Charge for up to 3 hours, but monitor battery temperatures and switch off it the battery gets hot.

 

Repeat up to three times each a day apart. If the capacity hasn't significantly increased after this, then the batteries are goosed and will have to be replaced.

[ditchcrawler]

It may be possible to recover your batteries if they are heavily sulphated, but not very old.

 

 

To do this you will need a means of charging at at least 15 volts, nearer 16 volts (assuming 12 volt batteries) to compensate for the lower temperatures the batteries will be at this time of year.

 

If you have a mid to high quality charger or combi unit, it should have a means of selecting an equalise charge mode.

 

Firstly charge the battery until it is fully charged at normal voltage (14.4-14.8 volts). This is when the charge current falls to about 1% of battery capacity and stays constant for at least 30 minutes.

 

Then and only then, increase the charge voltage by selecting the chargers equalising mode. Charge for up to 3 hours, but monitor battery temperatures and switch off it the battery gets hot.

 

Repeat up to three times each a day apart. If the capacity hasn't significantly increased after this, then the batteries are goosed and will have to be replaced.

And keep an eye on the water level.

[Sir Nibble]

Another thing I have found to work SOMETIMES is to flatten the battery RIGHT down and then charge it backwards. Do the same again to bring the polarity back where it should be and the battery may recover

[mrsmelly]

I'm sure everyone remembers my poor charging regime and the lengthy thread that ensued.

 

I'm still using my set of somewhat reduced capacity 4x110ah batteries - a couple hours engine running in the morning, a couple in the evening, and then switch off the 240v (including fridge) at night. This gives me enough laptop time in the evening, led lights and various pumps etc.

 

So, for now carrying on quite happily - but I have noticed a new phenomenon creeping in lately.

 

Today for example: I ran the engine for an hour or so when I got up (with 240v back on as normal). I then cruised for 3 1/2 hrs. A couple hours later, and my batteries are already back down to 12.3v so I have fired up the engine again.

 

What I am saying is this - it would appear that the leisure batteries are not getting much (or any?) charge when I'm cruising. I can't think what this could be but I'm sure someone will enlighten me - be gentle!

 

Just to re iterate - I know the batteries have reduced capacity, but a couple hours charging off the engine normally sees them up to say 12.8v which lasts all day or all evening. Even on longer cruises, they don't seem to get as much charge as when the engine is just running in neutral.

 

I have two alternators, 50a for engine, 175 for leisure.

 

Hi

 

Yer batteries are knackered. Buy a new set and a decent device for monitoring whats going in/out at any given time, a Nasa bm or similar is ideal.

Batteries are to be treated exactly as diesel you use em up and buy some more.

It is no use whatsoever having batteries without a good monitoring system.

[Johny London]

I'll be at a mains hook up for a nite soon - looking forward to using the charge feature on my Victron 3000 Will be interesting to see if it can kick a bit of extra life back into the batteries. Or if the charge feature even works!

In the meantime - and I know this will annoy some of you - I did find this: http://www.recovermybatteries.com/products.html

it does sound very promising. My main concern in trying it would be that any 12v stuff running off the batteries might get fried.

[WotEver]

Why should anyone be annoyed? Let us know how it goes.

 

As for equipment being damaged, just turn off the isolator prior to use.

[mross]

It gets very mixed reviews on Amazon. https://www.amazon.co.uk/reconditioner-desulfator-specifically-batteries-Motorhomes/dp/B00MTGZQCU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487438111&sr=8-1&keywords=battery+extra

 

Some reviewers gave it 5 stars even when it didn't work!

 

Make sure you return it within the 60 days!

[WotEver]

It gets very mixed reviews on Amazon. https://www.amazon.co.uk/reconditioner-desulfator-specifically-batteries-Motorhomes/dp/B00MTGZQCU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487438111&sr=8-1&keywords=battery+extra

 

Some reviewers gave it 5 stars even when it didn't work!

 

Make sure you return it within the 60 days!

I think it's snake oil but if anyone wants to waste their folding on it then good luck to them. It certainly won't 'annoy' me.

[Arthur Brown]

Smartgauge relies only on the terminal voltage of it's attached battery. It doesn't know what battery is is connected to, it works on 12 or 24v systems. It is clever enough to calculate enough about the battery -after a few charge cycles- to display the State of Charge more accurately than any other SOC indicator. However if the battery is 25AH or 250, or 2500AH Smartgauge will still give a display of the state of charge NOT the state of the battery.

[Johny London]

An interesting article regarding desulfators: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/interior-electrical/impp-1105-battery-desulfators-fact-fiction/

 

In the meantime, I inquired to the makers of Battery Extra, who replied promptly, saying that the unit will not damage any attached electronics (so I guess its working on frequency rather than high voltage pulses). Interestingly, they also said that my batteries should not have failed within twelve months and that there could be some underlying problem.

 

I may take the plunge and get one of their units. It's a punt.

[WotEver]

An interesting article regarding desulfators: [url=http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/interior-electrical/impp-1105-battery-desulfators-fact-fiction/]http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/interior-electrical/impp-1105-battery-desulfators-fact-fiction/[/url

Here's another one. Last two paragraphs are the most interesting http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/sulfation_and_how_to_prevent_it

The comments are also interesting.

[Johny London]

On 09/12/2016 at 19:22, Top cat said:

Do you have an ammeter in the charging circuit ? If not get one it's essential to know what's going in and out. A permanently installed one with a shunt is best failing that a clamp on DC hand held will help in the short term.

 

Without knowing the ins and outs it's difficult to advise.

 

Top Cat

Hey TC,

Just re reading this post and your advice about an ammeter seems like a good idea, especially now I have the SmartGauge installed. I seem to remember fitting a shunt to a psu some years back... can you recommend a particular meter/shunt kit?

[WotEver]

Loads of cheap Chinese shunt ammeters on eBay these days. Just ensure that the maximum current suits your system. There are very many which are 100A which may or may not be enough for you. Generally the 300A and 500A ones are a little more pricey. 

A fiver here: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-0-100V-0-100A-Digital-Voltmeter-Ammeter-LED-Amp-Volt-Meter-Current-Shunt-/142003018799?hash=item21100a1c2f%3Ag%3AFAcAAOSwMN9XQ~CO&_trkparms=pageci%3Ad5ca426e-0008-11e7-bfb4-74dbd180f82c%7Cparentrq%3A9409e36e15a0a34fcc537f26ffe32224%7Ciid%3A3

[MtB]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Loads of cheap Chinese shunt ammeters on eBay these days. Just ensure that the maximum current suits your system. There are very many which are 100A which may or may not be enough for you. Generally the 300A and 500A ones are a little more pricey. 

A fiver here: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-0-100V-0-100A-Digital-Voltmeter-Ammeter-LED-Amp-Volt-Meter-Current-Shunt-/142003018799?hash=item21100a1c2f%3Ag%3AFAcAAOSwMN9XQ~CO&_trkparms=pageci%3Ad5ca426e-0008-11e7-bfb4-74dbd180f82c%7Cparentrq%3A9409e36e15a0a34fcc537f26ffe32224%7Ciid%3A3

 

 

Bear in mind although these are cheap, they are not easy to fit or mount. The shunt is uninsulated with no fixing holes or tabs so you'll have to devise some insulated stand-offs to mount it, and the display needs a panel through which you cut a hole to mount it in. No pattress or surface mounting parts come with it. (Same problem with a Smartgauge though!)

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Bear in mind although these are cheap, they are not easy to fit or mount. The shunt is uninsulated with no fixing holes or tabs so you'll have to devise some insulated stand-offs to mount it, and the display needs a panel through which you cut a hole to mount it in. No pattress or surface mounting parts come with it. (Same problem with a Smartgauge though!)

Yes, you'd probably have to buy a couple of 8mm stand-offs from here to make your life easy http://www.copperbusbar.co.uk/category_s/52.htm