ID of boat and location please

[bigrogsound]

Hi there

I'm new to this forum and can't find a way to post a photo here, but have created an album called Heritage with a Griffiths of Bedworth boat entering a lock and am asking for help in naming the boat and it's location please. It looks to me like a broad lock with the butty perhaps obscuring the motor?

Any help gratefully received.

Thanks

Roger

[alan_fincher]

The lock is Copper Mil;l, number 84, on the Southern Grand Union.

 

I'm not sure this is a butty - might it not be a horse boat?

[BEngo]

No idea what the boat may be, but the lock is probably southern GU and it looks like Coppermill to me.

 

 

Beaten by Alan F!

N

Edited December 3, 2016 by BEngo

[Captain Pegg]

Welcome.

 

I can't help with the location although I have no doubt someone will identify it. Rather than having a motor isn't it more likely that it is a horseboat? Not sure John Griffiths (the company) lasted long enough to have motors (the man himself certainly didn't). They did have a steam powered boat though.

 

JP

 

Beaten to it by Alan!

Edited December 3, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[Guest]

 

In case people cannot see it.

[Athy]

...which I couldn't, so thank you.

What an atmospheric photo. I was about to ask what the industrial building was, but I suppose that it's, er, a copper mill.

[alan_fincher]

I can't help with the location although I have no doubt someone will identify it. Rather than having a motor isn't it more likely that it is a horseboat? Not sure John Griffiths (the company) lasted long enough to have motors (the man himself certainly didn't). They did have a steam powered boat though

 

 

....... and that steam boat, I think, was converted to a diesel powered boat. But I think there may have been few (or even no) others?

 

I think this is a horse boat.

What an atmospheric photo. I was about to ask what the industrial building was, but I suppose that it's, er, a copper mill.

 

With a large array of very early prototype solar panels?

[Athy]

 

 

.

 

With a large array of very early prototype solar panels?

Yes, they were quite advanced down there in Bed'orth. Look at that luxurious hi-tech dock they created there, for example.

[bigrogsound]

Thanks for all the replies, how do I put a photo onto my post please?

Yes, they were quite advanced down there in Bed'orth. Look at that luxurious hi-tech dock they created there, for example.

Are you referring to that wonder of the Coventry Canal, the sartorially dressed Charity Dock perchance?

[Athy]

Thanks for all the replies, how do I put a photo onto my post please?

Are you referring to that wonder of the Coventry Canal, the sartorially dressed Charity Dock perchance?

I see that we can't pull the wool over your eyes, lad, welcome to the forum!

Is that your boat in the avatar picture? Which one is she?

[Captain Pegg]

....... and that steam boat, I think, was converted to a diesel powered boat. But I think there may have been few (or even no) others?

 

I think this is a horse boat.

 

With a large array of very early prototype solar panels?

Just done a bit of research and there were others Alan. Three steam boats in the early 1900s and then maybe up to 10 diesel motor boats before they ceased operating. That includes Enterprise which was indeed converted from a steamer.

 

For the benefit of Athy the solar panels (?) are on the mill not the boat and the lock is somewhere down Watford (?) way and not in Bedworth.

 

I think my boating ancestors were involved with John Griffiths both in Willingsworth and later in Bedworth/Exhall. There was a common link in marriage to women from the Turton family and a link between families via Grantham, Westwood and Tyler. I know Pete Harrison's records suggest the boat that I believed as being sold by my great grandfather upon his retirement may have by that time been owned by John Griffiths (company).

 

JP

Edited December 3, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[pete harrison]

I have records for John Griffiths, Bedworth having four 'steamers' - JUBILEE (1907), ANT (1907), SPEEDWELL (1909) and ENTERPRISE (1910). I have only one motor, PREMIER, a second hand boat entering the fleet in 1930, although the 'steamer' ENTERPRISE is recorded as being a motor as early as 1915. By the early 1930's many of John Griffiths boats were trading under the company name Warwickshire Canal Carrying Company, and it was during this period (1932 - 1936) that several horse boats were converted to counter sterned motors (JOAN = 1932, THE KING = 1933, JAMES = 1934, MARGARET = 1934, TWEED = 1936, CALDER = 1936, ALICE = 1936).

 

I do not have the date for John Giffiths, Bedworth business transferring to Warwickshire Canal Carrying Company but many of his boats continued to operate with both this company as well as the Erewash Canal Carrying Company Ltd. throughout most of the Second World War.

 

John Griffiths, Bedworth has been covered several times over the years in both Waterways World and NarrowBoat magazines, although the details above are from my own records

 

edit = all of the above dates are based upon health registrations and not acquisition dates.

Is that your boat in the avatar picture? Which one is she?

I reckon this is NUNEATON, operated by the Narrow Boat Trust Ltd.

Edited December 3, 2016 by pete harrison

[Derek R.]

Yes, the location is Coppermill Lock:

http://tinyurl.com/zfgh6jc

http://tinyurl.com/ja5wtmz

The Harefield Rubber Company used it for a while, and some history is given on this website: http://www.glias.org.uk/news/138news.html#K

Originally they rolled copper there for ships sheathing, the copper coming from Glamorgan.

[bigrogsound]

I have records for John Griffiths, Bedworth having four 'steamers' - JUBILEE (1907), ANT (1907), SPEEDWELL (1909) and ENTERPRISE (1910). I have only one motor, PREMIER, a second hand boat entering the fleet in 1930, although the 'steamer' ENTERPRISE is recorded as being a motor as early as 1915. By the early 1930's many of John Griffiths boats were trading under the company name Warwickshire Canal Carrying Company, and it was during this period (1932 - 1936) that several horse boats were converted to counter sterned motors (JOAN = 1932, THE KING = 1933, JAMES = 1934, MARGARET = 1934, TWEED = 1936, CALDER = 1936, ALICE = 1936).

 

I do not have the date for John Giffiths, Bedworth business transferring to Warwickshire Canal Carrying Company but many of his boats continued to operate with both this company as well as the Erewash Canal Carrying Company Ltd. throughout most of the Second World War.

 

John Griffiths, Bedworth has been covered several times over the years in both Waterways World and NarrowBoat magazines, although the details above are from my own records

 

edit = all of the above dates are based upon health registrations and not acquisition dates.

I reckon this is NUNEATON, operated by the Narrow Boat Trust Ltd.

I am indeed steering the NBT motor Nuneaton below Atherstone Lock 5, October 2014.

I see that we can't pull the wool over your eyes, lad, welcome to the forum!

Is that your boat in the avatar picture? Which one is she?

Not mine but I'm steering Narrow Boat Trust motor Nuneaton towing butty Brighton in October 2014 below Atherstone Lock 5 en route to winter moorings at Alvecote.

[Laurence Hogg]

The Horse boat may well be one coming north from the Griffiths depot in Brentford, they had a small fleet there of which a few photos survive, "Enterprise" certainly worked out of there as she is on one of the photos.

[jeannette smith harrison]

The Horse boat may well be one coming north from the Griffiths depot in Brentford, they had a small fleet there of which a few photos survive, "Enterprise" certainly worked out of there as she is on one of the photos.

a painting copied from this Wakfeild card use to hang in the Brentford library as some of mine worked for Manny Smith & John Griffiths & Enterprise is mentioned, I often wondered if any of them where in the painting but it hung so high on the wall it was not possible to make out the finer details . I do hope it was not part of the damaged artefact's when the high ceiling collapsed a few months ago hence closing the unsafe building

[Captain Pegg]

My count of perhaps up to 10 motors for John Griffiths was based on the the text of the Autumn 2011 NarrowBoat article. However the boat listing only includes two motors (Enterprise and Premier) so it seems likely the other boats referred to in the text are those motors converted under WCCCo. It isn't clear from the text however.

 

Is this Enterprise one and the same as the boat used by WCCCo as a tug post-war?

Edited December 4, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[pete harrison]

My count of perhaps up to 10 motors for John Griffiths was based on the the text of the Autumn 2011 NarrowBoat article. However the boat listing only includes two motors (Enterprise and Premier) so it seems likely the other boats referred to in the text are those motors converted under WCCCo. It isn't clear from the text however.

 

Is this Enterprise one and the same as the boat used by WCCCo as a tug post-war?

Yes, one and the same ENTERPRISE - and the cabin added in the hold features in a 1947 amendment of its health registration and could accommodate 7.5 persons. By the mid 1960's ENTERPRISE was laying derelict at Exhall Basin

 

It is worth noting however that by the time Robert Longden captured the images published in A Canal People the Warwickshire Canal Carrying Company had reformed again, now becoming the Warwickshire Canal Carrying Company Limited. Although this company continued to run out of Charity Dock its commercial activity concentrated on day boat work, later branching out into pleasure boating with their camping boats DIAMOND (exF.M.C. Ltd. ADMIRAL) and SAPPHIRE (exJohn Griffiths URE) - and I am pretty sure they also operated the converted motor EMERALD (exLONG MOLL)

Edited December 4, 2016 by pete harrison

[Laurence Hogg]

My count of perhaps up to 10 motors for John Griffiths was based on the the text of the Autumn 2011 NarrowBoat article. However the boat listing only includes two motors (Enterprise and Premier) so it seems likely the other boats referred to in the text are those motors converted under WCCCo. It isn't clear from the text however.

 

Is this Enterprise one and the same as the boat used by WCCCo as a tug post-war?

 

I dont think that article was very well researched, there is a lot missing. I am not sure of "enter-prise"'s fate but note it is "enter-prise" not "enterprise". Also some of the steamers, ie "jubilee" don't have conventional motor sterns another thing I seem to remember wasn't in the article. "Calder"s remains lie at Harefield in Hawtreys pit btw.

[pete harrison]

Also some of the steamers, ie "jubilee" don't have conventional motor sterns

[mark99]

 

In case people cannot see it.

 

 

That building is currently being converted to flats. Almost complete.

 

NB early green power adopters <jest>.

Edited December 5, 2016 by mark99

[Heartland]

The family business of John Griffiths of Bedworth as a canal carrier was, as has been shown in previous posts, an extensive one which included merchandise carriage, the use of steam powered narrowboats and later motor narrow boats When John Griffiths died in 1914, the business passed to another John Griffiths and during his control the Warwickshire Canal Carrying Company was formed. The Narrowboat articles seem to suggest the first boat for the WCCC was in 1918, which presumably is from Coventry registration data. Yet the local newspapers still record John Griffiths as a carrier with no mention of the WCCC. That title may well have come to encompass the whole fleet from 1936 when the new dock at the Furnaces, Marston Lane was opened, the old dock being Black Bank.

 

A John Griffith continued as manager of the WCCC. Later this firm became WCCC Ltd and this firm lasted until January 1968 when receivership proceedings were commenced.

 

The gap in operations between WCCC and WCCC Ltd, may not have been a gap at all. The take over of some craft by the Erewash Canal Carrying Company could well have been the result of war time government control, where craft were moved around to suit traffic requirements.

 

The Enterprise as show in a post by Laurence Hogg was one such craft that went to the ECCC and back to the the WCCC Ltd. 

 

One point to answer is what happened to ENTERPRISE ?

    

[mark99]

On 03/12/2016 at 16:41, Athy said:

...which I couldn't, so thank you.

What an atmospheric photo. I was about to ask what the industrial building was, but I suppose that it's, er, a copper mill.

Now flats.

[Derek R.]

https://tinyurl.com/y4c7kky5

[Chris M Jones]

The building next to Copper Mill lock shown behind the John Griffiths boat was probably owned by Bells United Asbestos Company Limited at the time. Look in NarrowBoat magazine Winter 2017 Famous Fleets and you'll see a number of photos of the works when it used canal transport. The company had a close association with Coles, Shadbolt and Company, Portland cement manufacturers of Harefield, who owned a fleet of boats. Large quantities of cement was taken to Copper Mill by boat to make asbestos cement products, which in turn were transported by boat to London, Brentford and elsewhere.