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Beta 43 crank shaft/alternator pulleys problem.


Tigerr

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Apologies if this is already covered.

My 1998 Beta (low mileage) has developed a problem at the front end. It has all the travel power and charger alternators, and I have had issues with belts and alternator alignment/bearings and movement in the past. Remounted them last year, which might be relevant)

After this season, Now I have oil in the engine bay, and the drive pulleys/shaft have movement (source of oil leak). Not so good.

I think the engine will have to come out and either a repair/remachining of crankshaft or a 'short/bobtail unit' replacement and remount of all the existing alternators etc. (Time to strip and refit/paint the engine bay while the biggest lump is out!)

It occurs to me that once the pandoras box is open on this any number of issues with ageing engine kit are likely to emerge, and maybe a complete new engine/drive system is going to be not far off the same cost! Huge cost looming if that is the case.

Any other options or recommendations?

 

Plus the Webasto unit has failed - again. Time to rethink the heating options too.

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There's a guy on a facebook canal site who had machined the crank and pully and then fitted a tappered cone between the two has done what looks like a good repair I also have fitted the modification to the front pully but the the engineers I have spoken to who repair beta units don't have confidence on it as a long term fix the travel pack is a great idea but running off the front pully is a lot of strain.i have also had trouble with the travel pack drive and belt.beta have been very helpful.if I had a failure of the crank I would either put a different make of engine in or do away with the travel pack

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Thanks. I had heard the fix had mixed reports.

The travel pack is the issue, I suspect it has strained the system over the years, (wears the engine mounts too) and not been compensated for when the alternator on the other side went loose.

We use the travel pack for e.g. washing machine and suchlike.

I have a bank of 6 domestic batteries - does the panel think that taking out the travel pack and running the whole show via the batts and inverter system would be a viable option (once the repair is done). I had always assumed the travel pack was an essential but maybe it is more of a problem? It is an expensive item to dump.

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Oil leak? Engine oil? Sort of suggests that there is an oil seal problem on the front of the crank or - deep breath here- that the front bearing could be worn, I expect you've thought of this as well. Does the crankshaft end pass through the timing gears cover? could be just an oil seal then. Oil pressure OK? If it was mine I think I would grit my teeth John Wayne style and take all the belts and pulleys off and see what is happening. Most people survive without a travel pack and although a portable genny is a bit of a hassle it might be an option. As for the Webasto unless anyone knows better I'd leave it for a professional!

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.

I have a bank of 6 domestic batteries - does the panel think that taking out the travel pack and running the whole show via the batts and inverter system would be a viable option (once the repair is done).

We manage just fine with the 175a Beta domestic alternator fitted and a Mastervolt Combi, but then I binned the washing machine and restrict the first lieutenant to one major appliance at a time (hairdryer, coffee machine, microwave, etc) and don't really have any that draw above 100 amps. I know others do run such items purely off the batteries, but I don't like the idea of those 100 amp + loads when the engine's shut down.

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I find with modern 230v appliances, providing you have a decent size domestic alternator, decent size inverter and decent size battery bank that there is no need for a travel power, I recomend this regularly with my job. My own boat runs a washer/dryer, microwave and the boss's hair dryer quite happily (not at the same time), without a travel power, using twin 110amp alternators, 6 AGM 125ah batteries and a 3000W inverter, never had a problem in 3 years.

Hope this Helps.

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My understanding is that Beta changed the design of the crankshaft from around 2006 on the Beta 43.

 

The Kubota engine is meant for mini diggers etc, and comes with a long splined extension to the crankshaft to power the diggers accessories.

 

On the early Beta's they cut this off and fitted the pulleys to the crankshaft via a woodruff key. The key wears, the pulleys come loose and you have your problem.

 

On the later engines they leave the splined section in place, and fit individual pulleys to this, which has apparently cured the problem.

 

However a retro fit new crankshaft will not be cheap.

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Back to basics -

On older Betas all the drive to accessories were taken by a small key/ keyway which was never intended to drive anything more than the basic 'domestics. Being an industrial engine there is / was a splined shaft extension to the crank shaft. If so, Beta will supply a kit at small cost to take the drive for extras - larger alternators, travelpower w.h.y through the splines rather than the keyway. If not you're looking at a new crankshaft (£900 +) and while you're at it...... (For me a replacement engine made more sense).

The problem is that folks WILL charge their batteries and run the TP at tickover speeds. It's not immediately obvious, but that sets up vibrations that eventually destroy the crankshaft keyway. TP will produce usable power at tickover speeds as will larger alternators. SO to reduce perceived noise to themselves and others folks do their charging at tickover.... Methinks a reasonable engine speed is 1200 rpm for battery charging and 1500 for TP.

Kubota have made many minor undocumented changes to their engines over the years, so there will be much teeth-sucking from Beta as there is an outside chance that extras from the old engine may not fit. As they have had hassles from customers in the past, Beta are obviously cautious. To compound the issue changes in emissions regulations have required more changes to the basic engine layout with possible, I say again possible refitting of old ancillaries a challenge.

 

(typing this while Cuthound made his post above...)

 

 

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Back to basics -

On older Betas all the drive to accessories were taken by a small key/ keyway which was never intended to drive anything more than the basic 'domestics. Being an industrial engine there is / was a splined shaft extension to the crank shaft. If so, Beta will supply a kit at small cost to take the drive for extras - larger alternators, travelpower w.h.y through the splines rather than the keyway. If not you're looking at a new crankshaft (£900 +) and while you're at it...... (For me a replacement engine made more sense).

The problem is that folks WILL charge their batteries and run the TP at tickover speeds. It's not immediately obvious, but that sets up vibrations that eventually destroy the crankshaft keyway. TP will produce usable power at tickover speeds as will larger alternators. SO to reduce perceived noise to themselves and others folks do their charging at tickover.... Methinks a reasonable engine speed is 1200 rpm for battery charging and 1500 for TP.

Kubota have made many minor undocumented changes to their engines over the years, so there will be much teeth-sucking from Beta as there is an outside chance that extras from the old engine may not fit. As they have had hassles from customers in the past, Beta are obviously cautious. To compound the issue changes in emissions regulations have required more changes to the basic engine layout with possible, I say again possible refitting of old ancillaries a challenge.

 

(typing this while Cuthound made his post above...)

 

 

Mr Goat,when you say vibrations are caused by load at low speed,did you mean to say Oscillations?which cause strain on the Keyway

 

CT

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A friend of ours has very recently had the problem with his 3-year old Beta 50 (with Travelpower). Beta technical support advised him verbally (but not in writing of course) that their narrowboat engines were "not suitable for use in narrowboats" because they must always be run at 1200 rpm or more whenever there is a load on the Travelpower or indeed even when the batteries were being heavily charged by the alternator. They admitted that this is not compatible with the need to slow down for moored boats.

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A friend of ours has very recently had the problem with his 3-year old Beta 50 (with Travelpower). Beta technical support advised him verbally (but not in writing of course) that their narrowboat engines were "not suitable for use in narrowboats" because they must always be run at 1200 rpm or more whenever there is a load on the Travelpower or indeed even when the batteries were being heavily charged by the alternator. They admitted that this is not compatible with the need to slow down for moored boats.

Interesting.

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Total sod...!

All of my front assembly came loose..!

 

My neighbours brand new engine was written off after 100 hours...and he threatened legal action for Beta.

They eventually agreed to fund a replacement short engine and fitting....but their engineer said that they had tried ...pins...nuts...and even welding the front nut...to no avail..

 

When my engine failed...I had it investigated by an engineer. The taper on the end pulley was not at the same angle as the taper on the crank shaft. That meant that when you tighten up that large nut...the pulley is not squarley gripped....but sits on a shoulder. Yes...its is tight...but then that shoulder wears into the crankshaft and it all waggles.

 

This is not helped by the fact that on my engine....the alternators including the Travelpower...were all on one side and thus the belts all pulled like hell in one direction.

 

I obtained a new double aluminium pulley from Beta...had one of the pullies machine off...and then bolted that onto the iron pulley.

I then made a completely different 'saddle' for the Travelpower to sit on. I angle grinded off the end of the engine cradle....and fitted the Travelpower much lower down... This was a real 'faff'...but I actually found that having the Travelpower at a different angle to the alternators...the engine was better balanced..

 

My advice...?

 

Every months...tighten that huge nut (was it 43mm..?) on the end of the alternator pulley...

 

Second advice...?

If you cut the end off the engine cradle with an angle grinder...remove the batteries to the dock side.

It took me 20 pots of bicarbonate of soda...to neutralise the acid !


PS....if you have an oil leak...you can remove the pullies..prise out the old seal and fit a new one.

 

The oil leak..is usually when the pullies are running 'eccentric'...so tightening up that big nut...fitting a new seal.. may cure it...in fact it will cure it.

 

Removing the engine...as you say...and machining the crankshaft...will be a waste of life and will NOT cure it.

Edited by Bobbybass
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