Sabb 2J - calorifier connection

[Mikexx]

O.K. theory time, if, with my overplated skin tanks, she runs a tad hot, would using Evan's waterless coolant help? Anyone used it?

Also, Marine Enterprises state that they have raw water or skin cooled versions, do they need a different pump? i.e. will my pump, which is allegedly set up for raw water, work OK through my skin tanks?

 

I would like to see some temperature measurements. The inlet and outlet temperatures and some reassurance the skin-tank inlet (hot) is at the top and outlet (cold) at the bottom.

 

I've never come across waterless coolants before and I believed water was the best medium from having a high heat capacity and efficient nucleate boiling.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Mikexx

[PaulJ]

Alrite chop :-)

According to the manual-the same diaphragm pump is used for both raw water cooled and keel cooled. I am using presumably the same pump as you (diaphragm pump next to the oil filter) and am using skin tank.

Got back from short cruise today , motor ran impecably- just stopped it and coolant started gushing from header tank overflow. After initial panic and convinced it was something terminal turns out it is the engine coil in the (quite new)calorifier leaking! Aargh!! Disconnected, blanked. Sorted. :-D

Edited December 27, 2016 by PaulJ

[Rob 18]

Hi Paul, boat sounds great on the river! looks like it was a cracking day for a run out. In answer to Chops question I agree with Paul water pumps are the same for raw water or keel cooling its the pipework that varies, plus the use or not of a thermostat. The heat exchanger version uses a jabsco type pump to pump water through heat exchanger with diaphragm pump circulating coolant round engine. lots of pictures on sabb website. I did consider using waterless coolant because of its lack of expansion but was advised that it can raise the oil temperature which is undesirable.I don't know if it would exchange heat any better with the overplated skin tank than normal water/antifreeze.Regards Rob.

[PaulJ]

Thanks Rob- Had a few good runs out with it now - am really impressed with how well it handles against both wind and bit of flow :-)

Think may have to put a bit of a silencer on it though as it is just a straight bit of pipe at the moment :-)

[Chop!]

My skin tanks have both the inlet and outlet coming out vertically through the tops of the tanks.

I still have the Jabsco pump that was fitted to my BMC, are there left-hand versions of it? Would the one off the BMC turn in the right direction or doesn't it matter? I also have the filter, inlet & outlet pipes, so just would need a suitable heat exchanger, should this be needed.

Are you going to fit a non-return valve or anti-syphon loop to stop the engine from cooling the calorifier when it's not running.

Sorry to ask so many stupid questions, I just want to try to get it right first time! ?

[PaulJ]

Thats unusual on the tanks. I would hope the cold feed pipe is a pick up and goes to the bottom of the tank?

Alot (if not all ?) jabsco pumps show both directions of rotation on the impeller front plate and you select the inlet and outlet ports accordingly. Would treat it to a new impeller if changing direction though! If yours is a foot mounted/ fan belt driven pump and you cant do that then mount it backwards!

Im not intending to fit a one way valve to calorifier because I was hoping that as the pump is a diaphragm type it wouldnt circulate anyhow.

But as my calorifier decided to leak fresh water into the engine coil Ive removed all the pipework and put it back to standard for now anyhow.:-D

Happy New Year To All...

[Chop!]

Oops!

Edited December 31, 2016 by Chop!

[Chop!]

Which Sabb website has the pics of the heat exchangers etc?

Would quite like to come and see your set-up sometime Paul.

Blwyddyn Newydd DDa pawb! (Sabby New Year!!!)

Edited December 31, 2016 by Chop!

[Peter-Bullfinch]

My skin tank also has both the inlet and outlet at the top...maybe five foot apart.

Happy new year by the way.

[PaulJ]

My skin tank also has both the inlet and outlet at the top...maybe five foot apart.

Happy new year by the way.

Well obviously not that unusual then..:-D

Chop- welcome anytime- try and pick a nice dry day though :-D

Have a look here - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182399737693

Any good ?

[Mikexx]

My skin tank also has both the inlet and outlet at the top...maybe five foot apart.

Happy new year by the way.

 

Happy New Year to all.

 

How hot does the return temperature get compared to the bottom of the skin tank?

 

The skin tank sounds a modest size and would have thought it should provide more than adequate cooling.

[Peter-Bullfinch]

Mike, I haven't ever had the need to check the temperatures because the water temperature guage always seems to reach 70 or so and then stay steady. In addition we seem to have hot water via the calorifier after the engine has run for half to three quarters of an hour.

Whilst the skin tank connections might be five foot apart I think the tank is about six foot long.

[Mikexx]

Mike, I haven't ever had the need to check the temperatures because the water temperature guage always seems to reach 70 or so and then stay steady. In addition we seem to have hot water via the calorifier after the engine has run for half to three quarters of an hour.

Whilst the skin tank connections might be five foot apart I think the tank is about six foot long.

 

As you say it all sounds good. My initial question was for Chop who was complaining his cooling was insufficient. I got a little confused who was who in this topic!

[Chop!]

 

Happy New Year to all.

 

How hot does the return temperature get compared to the bottom of the skin tank?

 

The skin tank sounds a modest size and would have thought it should provide more than adequate cooling.

Hi Mike

Blwyddyn Newydd DDa!

There are two roughly triangular tanks each side of the engine bearers, the balance pipe runs across the bottom of bulkhead. As I've yet to connect anything, and I've never used the skin tanks (my BMC was raw water cooled) I have no idea what temperature to expect. Will start mooching around for pipe and fittings now the festive shenanigans are over. ?

[Chop!]

Well obviously not that unusual then..:-D

Chop- welcome anytime- try and pick a nice dry day though :-D

Have a look here - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182399737693

Any good ?

Hi Peter

 

Thanks for those links, the first one looks suitable. Now I'm wondering, if I do plumb in a cooler) whether I would be able to run the the Jabsco off the same twin belt pulley as the alternator? Otherwise I'd need to fit another pulley, if there's enough room! HoHum! ?

[PaulJ]

Chop-Think I may have misunderstood your skin tanks dilema :-D I had presumed your tanks to be vertical.

Do they by any chance look something like this one ? -(this photo was taken as I started to weld on a new vertical 'extension' to the original tank).

 

[JohnO]

I suggested Chop may have cooling issues due to the overplate. The problem is the small gap there wiil be between the two plates. Same principle in reverse as the air gap required between fireboard and any combustible material on a stove installation, plus 5 / 6mm plate.
I would like to see pictures of these skin tanks as I struggle to see how on a correctly sized tank a suitable socket could be welded in place. I have only encountered fitting on the large faces. Peter, fitting on the top edge and 6” in from the side intrigues me to the baffle arrangements. Chop has two tanks i think because on a rear install a skin tank would go though the rear bulkhead. I have some options for Chop but he would not like them, I think he is off trialling to see what he has.
These engines appear to run cool, the internal bore is small the flow is weak and tepid. With my first Sabb, worrying I asked Jonathan if the flow and temp of the the water was correct, especially as it was cut water cooled with a plastic colander as a strainer in the mudbox and it looked like a recent install in the boat, i did not know if it had seen the sea, he said something like, well does the engine feel hot, no i say, he just looked at me.
I made the mistake of taking a hose from my keel cooled system and giving it to a boater who had rubbed a serious groove in his with a spinning prop. It’s ok, i have a spare too short to fix him but still longer enough to replace mine. Wave him off into the sun set, fit spare, bled system, retire for the night.
Next morning chugging away just over tickover eating breakfast, engine gets a bit lumpy, revs die a bit, pop down hmm... that Sabb blue was sorta Sabb brown. The replacement hose which seemed robust, no idea how i came about it, i knew not about such things as steel reinforcement, collapsed once warm and the water pump just sucked it flat. Now do I stop this hotter than a hot thing engine and wait forever for it to cool or do keep it running, moving the oil and try to dissipate the heat by manipulating the hose and return some flow, thinking risk assessment, steam, bomb, hot engine, cold water, call me reckless I squashed the hose into shape and got a flow, had some hic-ups and splutters though the header tank. Now thinking, is this really a good idea, looks like I have lost a fair amount of coolant from the header tank so will have air in the system, still holding the hose I can just touch a 5 litre water container with free hand and reach up on full stretch and top up. Another 5 litres on cabin top, release hose it collapses, I leg it grab water stuff a load in header, squat down squish hose again, juggle hoses expel more air. I was surprised how quickly the skin tank ripped the heat from the coolant. Returned engine to a normal temperature, released hose, stopped engine. Finished me breakfast and pondered where am I going to find a length of suitable hose in rural north warwickshire on a bank holiday.
Happy days, five minute walk down the towpath found me CM's with spare hose and they gave me two quality ss jubilees even though I said I did not need them. On return to base I did a oil and filter change, replaced coolant and decided these engines are hardcore.
Had a core plug blow out once. The engine was raw cooled at that time, just happened to look down and though the engine ‘ole to see the floor awash, topped the engine bilge filled the cabin bilge 8” deep I had no auto bilge pump. I had to make good time to reach my sisters for a mothers days celebration. Did not want to leave the boat in middle of sunny Nuneaton had no locks on any hatches, even though I had left it for weeks in Coventry basin in the same state. Cut down a broom handle to a tight fit between the core plug and hand start column, used some high temp silicone to seal, hammered home and threw some water on it to expand the wedge. Got me there and lasted months before the wedge fell out, and the plug stayed in place. So if anyone offers you a 2H check the core plug’s not held in with stove glue.
I have turned a running 2H 90°, well it fell off the blocks and carried on regardless. When I had to man handle the 2G from one trolley to another it ended up on its side, that hemorrhaged oil but I can’t remember from where. The fuel return to filter housing I think is one of the features which helps give it the run in any conditions ability.
On the life boat engine use, I suppose it depends on how big the life boat is.

 

edit: too add a space man.

Edited January 2, 2017 by JohnO

[PaulJ]

Great story about your pipes there JohnO :-) I had noticed the pipe on the inlet side have quite a pulse to them :-D I have wondered if this might be in part, the cause of the leak in my calorifier coil- its made of that convaluted copper stuff.

My thoughts were also the same as yours regarding the overplated skin tanks. BUT...IF they are like the one in my pic then my thought is now that as long as the baseplate hasnt been overplated there is probably about 8- 10 sq ft of cooling area on the baseplate of the combined tanks. Plus the engine beds and hull sides will also act as a further heat sink. Maybe not perfect but I reckon that might just work.

So there you go Chop- my 2017 optimism :-D

Edited January 2, 2017 by PaulJ

[Chop!]

Yep, they're a similar shape to that.

Now looking for copper pipe for the diesel feed and return and some fittings to connect my skin tanks. I like to use mostly solid (copper) tubing with some, flexi joins to take up vibration.

I previously fitted a centrifugal fuel filter, and wonder if the Sabb will create a sufficient flow of diesel to make this effective?

Think twice, fix once! ?

Edited January 2, 2017 by Chop!

[Chop!]

And,BTW, I have also overplated the uxterplates! So maybe my skin tank plan will founder or, at least, need secondary raw water cooling.

It's a learning curve ( mostly downwards!!!)

[PaulJ]

Sounds like you will be up and running soon then. Great stuff.. :-)

[Pj Ruddock]

Hi, new to this forum, and to boating. 
I have a 2J fitted to my boat! It runs fine, but like the rest of the boat, has been neglected. 
I can’t shift the screws that hold the thermostat cover on. The manual which came with the boat says it’s possible to run without the thermostat, so long as the by-pass pipe is blanked off. 
Which is the by-pass tube?