Survey Complications, The 'O' word again and pitted baseplate

[Captain Pegg]

I'm no expert on this but most if not all the overplated jobs I've read about have had the fit out stripped out for the floor to come up. So holes can be made in the existing baseplate where the new baseplate is welded to the old one to tie it in as one unit.

Another major cost you might need to factor in if you haven't already.

That's not the case. The whole point of overplating is that it can be done as an entirely external job to a leisure boat. The terms overplating and replating are synonymous to many yards that deal with leisure boats - which is the majority.

 

On this forum there is a high percentage of historic boat owners - and some professionals - and they have a distinct attitude that replating is preferable. That may be the case but the choice for a historic owner in terms of both ease and authenticity is rather easier. For most leisure boat owners it isn't really a choice. Overplating is replating.

 

JP

Edited November 17, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[Neil2]

That's not the case. The whole point of overplating is that it can be done as an entirely external job to a leisure boat. The terms overplating and replating are synonymous to many yards that deal with leisure boats - which is the majority.

 

On this forum there is a high percentage of historic boat owners - and some professionals - and they have a distinct attitude that replating is preferable. That may be the case but the choice for a historic owner in terms of both ease and authenticity is rather easier. For most leisure boat owners it isn't really a choice. Overplating is replating.

 

JP

 

I had a long conversation a few years ago with a well respected welder/fabricator along these very lines. He concluded that there isn't really any point in "replating" a standard narrowboat, unless it is particularly valuable/unique in some way, simply because of the cost of the exercise. You would have to strip out the internals, then you might as well replate the entire hull, so you're getting close to the cost of a new shell.

 

The only real issue with overplating is the effect on draught/trim, and this really only applies to shortish boats. In any case the boat in question with a 6mm base will have plenty of ballast to play around with, assuming you can get at it of course - that's maybe something else to think about...

[Jrtm]

I wish! At 3' draft, I can tell you there's lots of hard things in the cut. The Tame Valley under the really high bridges was like being at sea, crunching and rolling over the things the locals have donated. Still passable though, and all part of the fun- especially with a nearly-new 10mm baseplate, from a replate rather than an overplate.

Im with you on this walk down a canal that got very clear water, parts of k&a, Aylesbury arm, Wendover arm prob others,

 

You can see the bottom its not what I would call a layer of mud.

 

I have a depth stick and I can advise that it very rarely come out caped in mud its normally hard gravel or something similar.

[Machpoint005]

Aha yeh O for overplating, yes I will only go ahead if the overplaying cost comes off their end.

 

Machpoint- would you still run if the sellers were to foot the bill for the repairs? If so, why; out of interest.

 

Because there will be a better boat out there for the same money. As Blackrose said last night, overplating is only acceptable if it is done properly. If the vendor is paying it will be more likely down to a price rather than up to a quality.

 

Perhaps I am more risk-averse than you, but I'd certainly be looking elsewhere.

One would question the intelligence of a surveyor who suggest overplating a seriously poor bottom. As for blacking bottoms, this is fine if you don't go anywhere or move but more or less a waste of time if you do move about.

^^^

Wot he said. In spades.

[cutsurfer]

UPDATE: The VC boatyard at Iver quoted 10,000 for the entirety of the over-plating on the base plate plus epoxy treatment so far so good, however the sellers wont come down to include this in the sale, at this point I think it's a full gone conclusion that the sale will fall through, thanks for all your advice on this though, very much appreciated, a bit of a gutting end but one of those things.

Edited November 23, 2016 by cutsurfer

[WotEver]

There are always other boats

 

You're doing right by walking away.

[Neil2]

UPDATE: The VC boatyard at Iver quoted 10,000 for the entirety of the over-plating on the base plate plus epoxy treatment so far so good, however the sellers wont come down to include this in the sale, at this point I think it's a full gone conclusion that the sale will fall through, thanks for all your advice on this though, very much appreciated, a bit of a gutting end but one of those things.

 

I wonder what they are going to do with the boat then?

 

If they were to get the work done themselves there's no way they would recoup the expense, the alternative is someone comes along with little or no idea what to look for but as a seller you'd have to have a very thick skin and/or no conscience to adopt that approach.

 

May not be the end of the story methinks, but stand your ground.

[cutsurfer]

Thanks Woteva and Neil.

 

The contact at Virginia Currer communicated that the seller was apparently in no rush for the sale and it sounded like VC were going to advertise it again and offer any prospective buyers the chance to buy my survey (with my permission).

But you never know.

[MtB]

There are plenty of people about who will just buy a boat because the price is right and they like the interior.

 

I expect they've decided to try and find one of these.

[Geo]

Aha yeh O for overplating, yes I will only go ahead if the overplaying cost comes off their end.

 

Machpoint- would you still run if the sellers were to foot the bill for the repairs? If so, why; out of interest.

 

Because the price you offered was based on some assumptions, probably a 10mm base plate not a 6mm. Now what is that boat worth when the overplating is done. It will sit lower in the water, unless it is possible to reballast it. So look at the boat anew as if you were walking up the path to it knowing what you know now, how much would you be prepared to give for it. That is the price I would suggest you need to be offering for it.

 

Another way of looking at it, in a year's time what is someone likely to give you for it if you have to sell?

Thanks Woteva and Neil.

 

The contact at Virginia Currer communicated that the seller was apparently in no rush for the sale and it sounded like VC were going to advertise it again and offer any prospective buyers the chance to buy my survey (with my permission).

 

But you never know.

 

I would be saying if you want to use my survey you pay me 75% of the cost of it At least you would recoup a bit

Edited November 23, 2016 by Geo

[MtB]

 

Because the price you offered was based on some assumptions, probably a 10mm base plate not a 6mm. Now what is that boat worth when the overplating is done. It will sit lower in the water, unless it is possible to reballast it. So look at the boat anew as if you were walking up the path to it knowing what you know now, how much would you be prepared to give for it. That is the price I would suggest you need to be offering for it.

 

Another way of looking at it, in a year's time what is someone likely to give you for it if you have to sell?

 

I would be saying if you want to use my survey you pay me 75% of the cost of it At least you would recoup a bit

 

 

Given it is a shyte survey, the OP could probably flog it half a dozen times over as each consecutive potential buyer dips out after seeing it!

[WotEver]

There are plenty of people about who will just buy a boat because the price is right and they like the interior.

 

I expect they've decided to try and find one of these.

Sadly I suspect you're right. 'Sadly' because it's a pretty mean trick when you know the problems.

 

 

 

Given it is a shyte survey, the OP could probably flog it half a dozen times over as each consecutive potential buyer dips out after seeing it!

Unless the next prospective purchaser doesn't know about surveys and just buys it because it's pretty.

[FadeToScarlet]

There are plenty of people about who will just buy a boat because the price is right and they like the interior.

 

I expect they've decided to try and find one of these.

...and those people seem to increase in number, the closer one gets to London. See it all the time in the London Boaters Facebook group.

 

The seller may well achieve their full asking price, just from the boat being where it is.

[MtB]

...and those people seem to increase in number, the closer one gets to London. See it all the time in the London Boaters Facebook group.

 

The seller may well achieve their full asking price, just from the boat being where it is.

 

 

Yes. When I visited VC Marine to view the "EQUUS" a couple of years ago, they actually told me most of the boats they sell are bought by newbie London CCers.

[chubby]

I think too that the seller is waiting for a london dreamer to buy it . Simple plan innit . Paint the interior in cream ....oh no my mistake i meant " natural calico " , fit some apparently obligatory wooden flooring . Add some trashy interior crap with " love , peace , dream etc etc " on the wall and various other nonsense from Ikea or some poxy Hackney / hoxton second hand shop , oops i mean vintage reclamation showroom .

 

The prices for boats on ebay around London are astonishing . Theres one currently listed as .... and i shit you not ...

" Shabby Chic Narrowboat "

 

Im thinking maybe to sell my boat next year and i m down south . A quick visit to a Farrow & Ball paint showroom & a trip to Ikea and i ll have doubled the value of my boat !

 

Whatever unhappy thoughts the OP has about the cost of the survey they should try to find the silver lining & theyve probably done themselves a big favour having the survey done . Walk away and find another secure in the mind that its the right thing to do 100% .

 

 

Apologies if this comes across as a bit cynical ........... but i am !

 

Cheers

Edited November 24, 2016 by chubby

[dmr]

Reclamation showroom ????? surely you mean the upcyclers

 

.............Dave

[MtB]

Reclamation showroom ????? surely you mean the upcyclers

 

.............Dave

 

 

Junk yard, surely!

[WotEver]

 

Junk yard, surely!

Mate of mine had a chain of junk second-hand shops. I was stood in one chatting to him once with a ciggy in my hand and I asked him where the ashtray was. He replied "You're stood in it!"

[Machpoint005]

 

 

Junk yard, surely!

 

Preloved artefacts emporium. And don't call him Shirley.

[chubby]

In Deptford its a second hand shop . Its cheap

 

In Shoreditch / hoxton / Dalston its Vintage . Its overpriced tosh .

 

In Notting Hill , its overpriced tosh also but with a liberal splash of Annie Sloane Chalk Paint at which point all sense of reality is lost .

 

This is then passed off as shabby chic ...

 

Good grief , only in London could people be so daft !

 

 

Harry Enfield absolutely nailed the whole notion of this nonsense in a series of sketches set in a shop in Notting Hill called " I saw you coming " .

 

Check youtube - the clip involving the customer " thicko " is the best one

 

cheers

Edited November 24, 2016 by chubby

[Neil2]

Yes - that Harry Enfield character was one of my all time favourites.

 

But seriously, it's one thing to tart up a boat in the hope it will have a bit more kerbside appeal, quite another to withhold information on a serious defect of which you are well aware, I simply can't believe too many people have a crust that hard. Having said that, the person we bought our last house from did so maybe I am being naive.

[chubby]

I agree completely and i think its a dreadful thing to do . Even if a potential buyer is a bit naive then one can accept a seller / broker wanting a price that is above its worth but to then sell at the inflated price for a boat with known serious faults is just plain nasty .

Problem is the concept of caveat emptor and it seems there are many who see the cost of a survey as a " waste "'( they could spend it at Farrow & Ball ? ) whereas to me its a report on its condition - pricey yes but for me worth

the money . The cost of the survey is compared to the ( potential ) cost of repairs . If u have enuff experience to not need one fine and good but if you dont know what your looking at then pay someone who does .... im my opinion .

 

The OP despite the cost involved has had a result and has saved ££££ and stress and hassle .

 

I do get the impression that prices are heavily inflated down south because theres a market for potentially gullible / naive novices ( i refuse to use term nooby ... i detest it immensley ) because some ( many ?) will have no experience and ther will be those who have to buy nearby because they ve not the time to shop around or buy from further afield due to the costs of doing so or getting time off work .

Many factors really , but some prices for boats around London stagger me . Im seriously thinking of changing boats next year and i look at some boat prices on ebay especially and i think " bloody hell what might i get for mine "?

 

But i think theres alot of white paint & laminate flooring being sold at B&Q s near the canals & theres a good deal of " recently refurbed " for sale . Im a dreadful cynic and ive never owned a pair of rose tinted spectacles .

 

I hope the OP has a result on the next boat , fingers crossed

Edited November 24, 2016 by chubby

[cutsurfer]

Happy Ending,

 

The sellers came down £7000 for the repairs, but with the repairs quoted at £10,000 it still wasn't going to be worth my while!

 

However, I called a boatyard back home who had over-plated areas on the waterline on my previous project of a boat.

 

They did a really good welding job and it was great to be in the yard with them last summer, on calling them they gave me a far more cost effective quote which meant I was able to make it all work and i'm over the moon to have the work being done by a yard that I know and trust.

 

I also found an insurer who was able to insure the boat without a recent survey which means I can get it home fully covered before the work is done via the advice of the survey. (Just in-case the worst should happen).

 

The boatyard i'm heading home to is Grand junction boatyard at Gayton by the way, they were really good for us last time.

 

cheers all :-)

Edited November 26, 2016 by cutsurfer

[WotEver]

Great news

[chubby]

Yeah ,

 

Happy Days !