Survey Complications, The 'O' word again and pitted baseplate

[cutsurfer]

I Recently wrote a post trying to determine the builder of a boat I was interested in buying. Turns out it was most likely a colecraft (I emailed pictures accross to them), it also had just a 6mm baseplate but I wasn't worried about that.

 

The surveyor had a look at the hull today...and I'm now a little worried about that 6mm baseplate

Turns out the sides are generally ok with some slightly thinner bits on waterline (as expected).

 

Though since 1984 the baseplate (having never been balcked) has slowly been corroding and now it has widespread pitting on two thirds of the baseplate though is better at the front.

 

The worst areas were found to have been 4.2 and 3.2, leaving at worst case 1.2mm of steel .

The surveyor recommended overplating 2/3rds of the baseplate and if the sellers account for this and co-operate with the boatyard for the repair costs then I've no problem and would still buy the boat as I like it quite alot. I'd probably put some of my money in to plating the bow end baseplate also just to make it a complete job and put my mind at ease.

If they don't I will obviously walk and shrug off the survey costs as 'one of those really annoying things that can't be helped'.

I thinks this definitely goes to show however that it is absolutely, 100% worth blacking a baseplate, as there can be no doubt they corrode, (albeit over a long time).

 

I just wondered people's thoughts on the situation, would you take the same stance as me, as long as the sellers come down and overplating is done well then it should all be happy days!?...shouldn't it?

 

Any views appreciated :-)

 

Pete

[Machpoint005]

Walk away (that's if you can't run).

 

The money spent on the survey has saved you a fortune already, so it has fulfilled its purpose. Find another boat.

[Chewbacka]

You know how much you have 'agreed' to pay for the boat. Add to that the cost of overplating. Is the boat still a reasonable price or priced too high?

 

 

Basically decide how much you are prepared to pay for that boat with the base overplated and then see if you can negotiate down to that price. If you can all is well in the world, if not, then ...........

 

Don't forget if you walk away then when you find another boat it will mean another survey, so bear that cost in mind when setting your walk away price.

[Stilllearning]

If you really like the boat, offer the vendors a price that is a bit under the asking price, less the cost of a total new baseplate, and see if they are interested. If they are not, walk away, but try not to laugh at them.

[Machpoint005]

"Another survey" = "paying for insurance on a different risk altogether"

[Alan de Enfield]

Not quite sure what the "O" word in the title relates to ?

 

O'Dear ?

OK ?

 

Could it be 'Overplating' or,

 

Osmosis ?

Orgasm ?

Origami ?

Edited November 16, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[cutsurfer]

Aha yeh O for overplating, yes I will only go ahead if the overplaying cost comes off their end.

 

Machpoint- would you still run if the sellers were to foot the bill for the repairs? If so, why; out of interest.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I Recently wrote a post trying to determine the builder of a boat I was interested in buying. Turns out it was most likely a colecraft (I emailed pictures accross to them), it also had just a 6mm baseplate but I wasn't worried about that.

 

The surveyor had a look at the hull today...and I'm now a little worried about that 6mm baseplate

 

Turns out the sides are generally ok with some slightly thinner bits on waterline (as expected).

 

Though since 1984 the baseplate (having never been balcked) has slowly been corroding and now it has widespread pitting on two thirds of the baseplate though is better at the front.

 

The worst areas were found to have been 4.2 and 3.2, leaving at worst case 1.2mm of steel .

 

The surveyor recommended overplating 2/3rds of the baseplate and if the sellers account for this and co-operate with the boatyard for the repair costs then I've no problem and would still buy the boat as I like it quite alot. I'd probably put some of my money in to plating the bow end baseplate also just to make it a complete job and put my mind at ease.

 

If they don't I will obviously walk and shrug off the survey costs as 'one of those really annoying things that can't be helped'.

 

I thinks this definitely goes to show however that it is absolutely, 100% worth blacking a baseplate, as there can be no doubt they corrode, (albeit over a long time).

 

I just wondered people's thoughts on the situation, would you take the same stance as me, as long as the sellers come down and overplating is done well then it should all be happy days!?...shouldn't it?

 

Any views appreciated :-)

 

Pete

 

 

 

 

You could get a quote for the whole base to be replated and offer to go halves on it?

When I bought mine thats pretty much what I did.

[NB Lola]

Why black the baseplate is less important to me than why the pittting? We have our baseplate checked annually as I black annually and there is very little pitting, less than 1 mil and the shell is 26 years old. Suggests to me either no isolation transformer and lots of stray current where it lived or steel issue or it lived out of the water for a long while, the latter I am much less sure of. Other thoughts oh Wordly wise crew?

[Neil2]

The seller is now well and truly on the back foot, the boat as it stands is almost worthless. Why? Because who knows what the true extent of the rot is under all the blacking, crud and flaky rust. From a buyers perspective you have to assume the worse, don't turn someone else's problem into yours.

 

If you still really like the boat factor in the cost of blasting the hull back to bare metal, re-assessing the state of it, at the very least overplating the entire baseplate, and then epoxy coating or something like it - when you've gone to all the trouble of grit blasting it why slap on a load of cheap tar.

 

Make a realistic assessment of the total cost and adjust your offer accordingly. If the seller doesn't like it - walk away, you don't need to buy this boat, the seller does need to sell it.

 

Don't forget you'll maybe have to have the boat transported somewhere to get it blasted.

 

Actually as it's a Colecraft why not ask them for a price.

[Jrtm]

Find out a cost for fully replacing the base plate (forget over plating for now).

 

Use this cost as a worst case and deduct it from the cost of the max you can / willing to spend.

 

Now see what they say. Worst they will say is no.

 

Now the reason I say ask for replacement is if you go to replate it and it's too thin to plate onto your now onto replacement rather than a replate + the costs you would then be due to pay for the work done at that point.

 

+ its better to remove the rust compleatly than just cleaning and hoping it wont rust both baseplate at the same time.

It could be worse you could have 3inch pitting on your bottoms lol.

Edited November 16, 2016 by billybobbooth

[Laurence Hogg]

One would question the intelligence of a surveyor who suggest overplating a seriously poor bottom. As for blacking bottoms, this is fine if you don't go anywhere or move but more or less a waste of time if you do move about.

[Captain Pegg]

Find out a cost for fully replacing the base plate (forget over plating for now).

It's a leisure boat bbb. It doesn't have 50 cubic metres of air where the tar should be and therefore replating it probably means gutting the entire boat.

 

In response to Laurence the statement is that the worst of the pitting leaves 1.2mm thickness of steel. This could be a very isolated case. There are many boats out there with a baseplate that has never been blacked as you allude to so there is no reason to suppose the general steel condition is 'shot' and unsuitable for welding to. No reason why it should be at that age.

 

There is no reason why you should run from an overplated boat providing you are paying the right price. I don't see why you should go halves though if the owner advertised it as though it were sound. Those who point out the seller is now in a potentially sticky situation have it right.

 

For the record my boat was overplated with 6mm plate in 1987 on top of the original 6mm from 1968. I am prepared to replace the lot and refit the interior one day. I may die before it's necessary though.

 

JP

Edited November 16, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[Bee]

Do you think overplating is an acceptable repair? I do. We are talking about a canal boat, Its never going to have tons of coal shot into it, its never going to pitch and roll at sea, strength is hardly an issue, a slab of new 6mm plate will keep the water out for years, I would want to see it welded to the old bottom at intervals along the centreline though. I would take issue with Laurence though about painting the bottom, Boats seldom drag along the bed of the canal and if they do it is mostly soft mud, the paint will not wear off unless you have a very deep boat, Anyway even if that was the case paint in the pits would probably stop the pit deepening so just slap something on.

[Captain Pegg]

Deleted as I inadvertently quoted my own post instead of editing it.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[cutsurfer]

Thankyou all for the replies, lots of food for thought.

 

You are right, the steel isn't completely shot according to surveyor so sounds like it's viable for a good overplating job, But thanks for the warning Neil and BBB.

 

I'll discuss that with the surveyor and get his opinion but it seemed today like he believed it was ok on the most part but was very concerned about the pitting that he said 'would develop into a problem' if not very carefully looked after.

I think on balance if this is the case, I will be happy as long as the full cost on estimate of work comes off of the sale and i'm assured quality overplating can be done on the baseplate in it's condition.

I really appreciate the comments as now I can get everything crystal clear with surveyor and boatyard before making the decision and hadn't thought about quizzing them on the 'if the overplating goes wrong' scenario on the baseplate steel.

[FadeToScarlet]

Boats seldom drag along the bed of the canal and if they do it is mostly soft mud, the paint will not wear off unless you have a very deep boat

I wish! At 3' draft, I can tell you there's lots of hard things in the cut. The Tame Valley under the really high bridges was like being at sea, crunching and rolling over the things the locals have donated. Still passable though, and all part of the fun- especially with a nearly-new 10mm baseplate, from a replate rather than an overplate.

[cutsurfer]

I wish! At 3' draft, I can tell you there's lots of hard things in the cut. The Tame Valley under the really high bridges was like being at sea, crunching and rolling over the things the locals have donated. Still passable though, and all part of the fun- especially with a nearly-new 10mm baseplate, from a replate rather than an overplate.

Had it been blacked? Were the Trolleys and pushchairs scraping away precious bitumen or have you left the new plate 'bare' .

[cutsurfer]

Just looked back at photos, Sides looked ok, a few mm here and there! wish Id took some of baseplate but was too dark and covered in gunge anyhow.

[blackrose]

The seller is now well and truly on the back foot, the boat as it stands is almost worthless. Why? Because who knows what the true extent of the rot is under all the blacking, crud and flaky rust. From a buyers perspective you have to assume the worse,..

Who knows? The surveyor and anyone who reads the survey that's just been conducted. The whole point of a hull survey is to determine the hull condition. Assuming it's a decent, professional survey then it tells the buyer all he needs to know.

 

Do you think overplating is an acceptable repair? I do.

I do too, but only if it's properly done. A bad overplating job is no better and possibly worse than doing nothing at all.

Edited November 17, 2016 by blackrose

[MtB]

If you really like the boat, offer the vendors a price that is a bit under the asking price, less the cost of a total new baseplate, and see if they are interested. If they are not, walk away, but try not to laugh at them.

 

 

Suggestions like this are less than useless in my personal opinion. Do you really think the OP hasn't thought of this already?

 

The counterbalancing force is the buyer's desire to buy this particular boat for whatever their reasons are, otherwise they wouldn't be torn and asking for comments. All boats are unique, remember? And this one presses the right buttons, hard.

 

Walking away if the vendor won't cave in and deduct the whole cost of overplating and then some as you recommend will mean back to the seemingly endless search for just the right boat. Another winter of lost prime boating time perhaps too, and endless more time spent looking at adverts and more boats.

 

And besides, the price might be making the boat a bargain in the first place anyway.

[cutsurfer]

I think comment was meant with best intentions but yeah, spot on Mike, I do want the boat, it does tick boxes for me, pretty sure I havent got bargain of the century as it needs alot of TLC, I like doing that however.

 

I know alot would have probably recoiled if they saw the state of the paint and the bits it needs doing, but I do recognise that if the sellers wont come down for the cost of the repairs I will have to walk (though theres no reason to think they won't as yet), crossing fingers :-)

[Mendip-Locks]

I'm no expert on this but most if not all the overplated jobs I've read about have had the fit out stripped out for the floor to come up. So holes can be made in the existing baseplate where the new baseplate is welded to the old one to tie it in as one unit.

Another major cost you might need to factor in if you haven't already.

[blackrose]

One would question the intelligence of a surveyor who suggest overplating a seriously poor bottom. As for blacking bottoms, this is fine if you don't go anywhere or move but more or less a waste of time if you do move about.

I haven't covered as many waterways as many people on this forum, but have done quite a bit of the GU including Paddington arm, Thames, the entire length of the K&A, G&S, Severn, Warks Avon and now on the Nene. I can honestly say I've yet to scrape the baseplate along the bottom and I'm on a 12ft widebeam. It only has a draught of about 2'2" so I guess that's why. I think it's mainly those people on boats with 3ft+ draughts that scrape.

 

To me, the more paint you can get on the underwater parts of the hull the better and the reason many of us don't (including myself) is because it's a difficult job.

Edited November 17, 2016 by blackrose

[blackrose]

I think comment was meant with best intentions but yeah, spot on Mike, I do want the boat, it does tick boxes for me, pretty sure I havent got bargain of the century as it needs alot of TLC, I like doing that however.

 

I know alot would have probably recoiled if they saw the state of the paint and the bits it needs doing, but I do recognise that if the sellers wont come down for the cost of the repairs I will have to walk (though theres no reason to think they won't as yet), crossing fingers :-)

The other thing to talk to your surveyor about is how the extra weight of steel will affect the trim. Could it pull waste pipe fittings or engine vents too close to the waterline and if so is there ballast you can remove to offset that?

 

If you do walk, try to do a deal with your surveyor for a subsequent survey on another boat.