Carbon monoxide. Heating.

[mrsmelly]

Its about that time of year. Just a friendly reminder for all of us and as we seem to have several threads running from new boaters at the moment to advise them STRONGLY to buy a couple of detectors/alarms. They are cheap, they may well save your life. And check ya batteries.

 

Tim

Edited November 10, 2016 by mrsmelly

[Barry]

Agreed

 

Carbon monoxide alarms are an essential

[Sea Dog]

^^^^ I think he meant to say 'alarms' (Carbon Monoxide) in there somewhere.

[mrsmelly]

^^^^ I think he meant to say 'alarms' (Carbon Monoxide) in there somewhere.

 

Trust you.....will edit

 

Tim

Edited November 10, 2016 by mrsmelly

[Sea Dog]

Trust you.....will edit

 

Tim

No offence Tim, just thinking that those who aren't aware might need the missing bit of the jigsaw - Barry pressed post before me to make it clear anyway.

 

 

PS - timely reminder though!

Edited November 10, 2016 by Sea Dog

[Guest]

I agree they are essential within the confines of a narrowboat.

[Bloomsberry]

I assume a CO detector with an analog display are best as it shows when there are low levels.

 

There's one at Screwfix with a built in lithium battery that is supposed to last 7 years.

 

I've read that over time the sensors deteorate anyway so after 7 years it would be a good idea to replace it ?

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/fireangel-co-9d-7-year-digital-co-alarm/92361

[Jak]

My surveyor advised a gas detector too, so I've wired one up to the 12v. Necessary??

[alan_fincher]

And check ya batteries.

 

Tim

 

Better still, (in my view) buy those that have a non replaceable battery that lasts (typically) either 7 or 10 years, and then you don't need to reconsider the issue for many years to come, (unless it starts alerting you to any other failure condition).

 

Cost a bit more initially, but over 7 to 10 years, probably less, as you don't need to keep feeding new batteries in.

 

Another advantage for those not on board full time, is it doesn't regularly make a nuisance of itself to neighbouring boaters by bleeping "low battery" all through the night when you are not there to do anything about it. (Or, at least if it does, it is only once every 7 years or more!).

[mrsmelly]

 

Better still, (in my view) buy those that have a non replaceable battery that lasts (typically) either 7 or 10 years, and then you don't need to reconsider the issue for many years to come, (unless it starts alerting you to any other failure condition).

 

Cost a bit more initially, but over 7 to 10 years, probably less, as you don't need to keep feeding new batteries in.

 

Another advantage for those not on board full time, is it doesn't regularly make a nuisance of itself to neighbouring boaters by bleeping "low battery" all through the night when you are not there to do anything about it. (Or, at least if it does, it is only once every 7 years or more!).

 

Yes agreed. Funnily enough after putting this post on I have just bought another online , a Honeywell with a 7 year lifespan with Lith ion battery that doesnt need changing. Lots less than twenty quid what a bargain they now are. I have 2 others which I will change batteries on anyway. You cant have too many.

 

Tim

[cereal tiller]

My surveyor advised a gas detector too, so I've wired one up to the 12v. Necessary??

Good thing to have,older ones got damp and gave false alarms,they seem to be better these days

 

 

CT

[NMEA]

Take care when buying them too, read the leaflet carefully as some specifically exclude marine usage, of course that may just be the manufacturers ass covering, but still...

Edited November 11, 2016 by NMEA

[Sea Dog]

I assume a CO detector with an analog display are best as it shows when there are low levels.

 

There's one at Screwfix with a built in lithium battery that is supposed to last 7 years.

 

I've read that over time the sensors deteorate anyway so after 7 years it would be a good idea to replace it ?

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/fireangel-co-9d-7-year-digital-co-alarm/92361

We have two of those. One up forward near the stove, one in the bedroom down aft at sleeping head height. They give an lcd readout of any CO detected in ppm and can also display temperature. Whilst it's not to the full marine standard BSI, I'm not convinced the average Narrowboat is really a marine environment.

[Naughty Cal]

We have two of those. One up forward near the stove, one in the bedroom down aft at sleeping head height. They give an lcd readout of any CO detected in ppm and can also display temperature. Whilst it's not to the full marine standard BSI, I'm not convinced the average Narrowboat is really a marine environment.

What would you class as a "marine environment?"

 

Judging by some of the posts on this forum your average narrowboat is a lot more prone to condensation then many lumpy water boats!

[Sea Dog]

What would you class as a "marine environment?"

 

Judging by some of the posts on this forum your average narrowboat is a lot more prone to condensation then many lumpy water boats!

I'd class your boat as a marine environment. In particular, lumpy bumpy stuff and high levels of vibration requiring a more robust build standard. The Narrowboat, whilst I agree is prone to condensation because it has particularly cold bits like it's windows for moisture to condense on and may be poorly insulated elsewhere too, is not a significantly more humid environment than many a British house.

[NMEA]

I'm not convinced the average Narrowboat is really a marine environment.

It's not you that needs to be convinced, insurers may take a different view. As somebody who installs potentially lethal (if poorly installed / maintained / operated ) kit for a living I accept that I am possibly a lot more risk averse (and possibly better advised) than most and do things by the book, your ship, your life your choice though as they say.

Edited November 11, 2016 by NMEA

[Bee]

Bought a cheap one a few years ago for the house, had a terrible old gas boiler burning with a yellow flame and a leaving a sooty stain where it attached to the wall. Not a bl**** squeak out of it even when I put it in the fumes. I'm sure that they are better now but if you have an old one that is reassuringly telling you that all is well then it might just be useless.

[Jak]

Well mine works. I had the door on the squirrel open whilst opening a new bag of fuel. All the windows and doors closed. Its bloody loud!

[Machpoint005]

I'd rather have a false positive from a CO alarm than a false negative. At least I would know about the former.

[mross]

'Marine' refers to the sea. Boats on the coast will be exposed to salt in the air. My house is two miles from the sea but marine corrosion is evident on the aluminium letterbox and door handles. So CO detectors with the boat symbol will have been tested for corrosion. I think they also have to withstand shock, tilting and vibration more than domestic models.

 

I think the digital display is quite nice, but not essential, especially as you most need the protection when you are asleep. I have four different models, all with long-life batteries. They are easy to test and most have a special mode for testing with an incense stick. Remember, in NORMAL mode, it takes a long time to go into alarm unless the CO levels are pretty high.

 

"In the UK a domestic/Type-B alarm compliant with BS EN 50291:2001 should emit an audible alarm after about 3 minutes exposure to 300 ppm CO, or 10 to 40 minutes at 100 ppm, or 60 to 90 minutes at 50 ppm" -Wikipedia

 

So it is important to keep the instructions so that you know how to test the sensor. Pushing the test button does not test the sensor itself, just the buzzer and the electronic circuits.

Edited November 11, 2016 by mross

[j04n]

I'm going to have to stop coming on here! ........ thats £68 youve just cost me! ........ bought 3! ...... I know I needed them. Thanks for the reminder!

[Guest]

I'm going to have to stop coming on here! ........ thats £68 youve just cost me! ........ bought 3! ...... I know I needed them. Thanks for the reminder!

I know!

The way I look at it though is that funerals cost a great deal more.

As smart clothes become the norm, perhaps CO detectors will be built into our vest one day? I considered fastening one to me hat

[j04n]

I know!

The way I look at it though is that funerals cost a great deal more.

As smart clothes become the norm, perhaps CO detectors will be built into our vest one day? I considered fastening one to me hat

lol! good point!

[Sea Dog]

It's not you that needs to be convinced, insurers may take a different view.

 

That's true, of course. I don't think we need to satisfy anyone as regards CO alarms on our boats though, do we? Certainly not the BSS and my insurer doesn't ask for CO alarms either. Perhaps when alarms certified for use in boats are more readily available we will see them mandated, and I would welcome such a move. I can certainly see why a professional fitter would go the extra mile to fit an alarm to the marine standard though, and I would expect nothing less.

[Sea Dog]

 

 

I think the digital display is quite nice, but not essential, especially as you most need the protection when you are asleep. [/font]

With no display, you only get notification of a problem once the CO level is high enough to trigger an alarm. With a read out in ppm, you can see a developing problem early.

 

For example, if your stove emits CO when kept in overnight when damped down and the weakened draw is less able to pull fumes up the chimney and the lower combustion temperature makes it more likely to produce higher quantities of noxious gas, you can see from the display that this is happening. Also, if you repeatedly get small releases of CO when, say, stoking the fire, these may not trigger an alarm but will show up on the display.

 

Since we know that CO is taken up more readily than oxygen by the haemoglobin in red blood cells and is not readily released to allow those cells to recover, regular small doses of CO have a cumulative effect which can build to be almost as bad as one big one.

 

So, whilst a readout is not essential to the alarm function, it's probably fair to say it's a little more than nice to have. This is why, in the relatively benign environment of a Narrowboat, I prefer this model to a less informative marine certified unit.