The Toad in the Hole Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Yes, that's pretty much how things work in a tax-paying democracy. There are several parallels. Take the Arts for example. Ballet & opera are subsidised through taxation, but if you actually want to attend, you pay again by buying a ticket. We all contribute to the Highways whether we drive or not, nobody has to pay to walk down the pavement or use a Pelican crossing but if you wish to use a car, you pay extra. Here's another one (you'll like this), supermarkets. If you use a supermarket, you pay for the goods, but you pay again, through tax, for the transport infrastructure that enables the supermarkets to function, and again (through taxation) for the tax-credits which enable the supermarkets to employ workers on low wages. Even if you never use a supermarket, you still pay the last two. Good isn't it. magnificent explanation. I might nick this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Yes, that's pretty much how things work in a tax-paying democracy. There are several parallels. Take the Arts for example. Ballet & opera are subsidised through taxation, but if you actually want to attend, you pay again by buying a ticket. We all contribute to the Highways whether we drive or not, nobody has to pay to walk down the pavement or use a Pelican crossing but if you wish to use a car, you pay extra. Here's another one (you'll like this), supermarkets. If you use a supermarket, you pay for the goods, but you pay again, through tax, for the transport infrastructure that enables the supermarkets to function, and again (through taxation) for the tax-credits which enable the supermarkets to employ workers on low wages. Even if you never use a supermarket, you still pay the last two. Good isn't it. Except that your so called parallels are not parallel at all. Take ballet and opera. The taxpayer may well subsidise them but the only people who get in to watch them are those who pay extra for a ticket. On the canals, some who enter pay extra (the boaters), others who enter do so for free (the cyclists and walkers). I am however prepared to concede that in exchange for their payments boaters get a dress circle seat whereas cyclists get to stand in the stalls. Both however see the same show. George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 You could argue that BW was basically a navigation affair, but unfortunately CRT isn't. Its terms of reference are about all users, including the odd vole, and us boaters are only a proportion of its remit. An error, in my view, but we have to live with it. can I set up a sock puppet account with the user name of 'Odd Vole', or is it already taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spadefoot Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) Except that your so called parallels are not parallel at all. Take ballet and opera. The taxpayer may well subsidise them but the only people who get in to watch them are those who pay extra for a ticket. On the canals, some who enter pay extra (the boaters), others who enter do so for free (the cyclists and walkers). I am however prepared to concede that in exchange for their payments boaters get a dress circle seat whereas cyclists get to stand in the stalls. Both however see the same show. George ex nb Alton retired You're still trying to divide people into catergories George. You're still ignoring that a cyclist might also be a boater, volunteer, fund-raiser etc. Those few cyclists that we all dislike, are not seeing the show at all, they're not enjoying the tranquillity, they're not watching the boats go by, they're not seeing the kingfishers. They are just selfish bullies, and we all (should) know how to deal with bullies. If you create divisions, you will not achieve harmony. ETA. Your theoretical cyclist is not watching the show from the stalls, he's just barging (tee hee) his way through the crowd outside the theatre. Edited November 10, 2016 by spadefoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spadefoot Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I know, but don't beat yourself up about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Seen screwed next to benches at the Bratch locks today: "Warning serious relaxation may occur" - what a f--in waste of money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Seen screwed next to benches at the Bratch locks today: "Warning serious relaxation may occur" - what a f--in waste of money. well, the humour was wasted on you, that's for sure. lighten up why don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Poyser Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Seen screwed next to benches at the Bratch locks today: "Warning serious relaxation may occur" - what a f--in waste of money.Yep treating their customers like children (boaters or not).That particular one makes my BLOOD BOIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Poyser Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Seen screwed next to benches at the Bratch locks today: "Warning serious relaxation may occur" - what a f--in waste of money.They are supposed to be looking after our national heritage and want to have the same status are the National Trust. Can you imagine NT putting the same s--t up in a stately home and caving some poetry in the oak beams for good measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerra Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 They are supposed to be looking after our national heritage and want to have the same status are the National Trust. Can you imagine NT putting the same s--t up in a stately home and caving some poetry in the oak beams for good measure. The canals aren't a stately home they are a stretch of water which CRT has to try to encourage more people to use and donate to. In this stress filled world a little humour pointing out the canals are great places for relaxation doesn't IMO do any harm. With regard to Oak Beams no the NT wouldn't carve poetry into Oak beams but those beams would probably be 100s of years old not new or a few decades. I have seen things carved into new wood on various NT properties over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy3196 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Http://www.theclickdesign.com/portfolio/national-trust-natures-playground/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Http://www.theclickdesign.com/portfolio/national-trust-natures-playground/ CRT didnt have to look far for the ideas......................................... oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob-M Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Looks like CRT just copied the NT then. Do you think there are loads of complainers on a NT forum somewhere moaning about wasting money on signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spadefoot Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 I find the signs, or at least the mottos on them, amateurish & patronising. Mind you, I think that calling boaters, customers, is patronising too. Poetry or verse carved onto lock-gates or whatever is fine by me though. Might get some carving chisels & do some myself, they couldn't really complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 I find the signs, or at least the mottos on them, amateurish & patronising. Mind you, I think that calling boaters, customers, is patronising too. Poetry or verse carved onto lock-gates or whatever is fine by me though. Might get some carving chisels & do some myself, they couldn't really complain. I blame the railways for all that nonsense. I go to the station and get on a train. I am a PASSENGER and I always will be. George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spadefoot Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 I blame the railways for all that nonsense. I go to the station and get on a train. I am a PASSENGER and I always will be. George ex nb Alton retired Just so George. You, me & Iggy Pop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 Seen screwed next to benches at the Bratch locks today... Doggers pay taxes too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starman Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 The canal system seems to be getting cluttered with all manor of signs just lately. These are soon to become a fixed feature. Like the ones at the Old turn in Brimingham. Also the "Welcome to -------" signs at popular places. If you think they are a waste of your money let Sophie.Castell@canalrivertrust.org.uk know. Andrew I agree with you - was having a grumpy old man moment about 'welcome to Kinver' by the towpath just recently. Who are they for anyway? Boaters, walkers, cyclists - they all know they're in ruddy Kinver. The colours and designs irritate me too - blues, oranges etc etc. The canal system has an elegant and historic black and white theme so why change it? The National Trust is a good sensible of elegant, appropriate signage. Ah, I feel better for a Saturday morning rant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FadeToScarlet Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 I agree with you - was having a grumpy old man moment about 'welcome to Kinver' by the towpath just recently. Who are they for anyway? Boaters, walkers, cyclists - they all know they're in ruddy Kinver. The colours and designs irritate me too - blues, oranges etc etc. The canal system has an elegant and historic black and white theme so why change it? The National Trust is a good sensible of elegant, appropriate signage. Ah, I feel better for a Saturday morning rant! People know they're in Kinver, but they generally didn't know who CRT were. The new signs and banners are an attempt to get people to know who is actually in charge, as previously very few visitors actually knew. The rationale being, there's unlikely to be many donations unless people know who we are. caving some poetry in the oak beams for good measure. I'd rather have new balance beams, paid for out of art funds, than no new balance beams at all, as the navigation budgets are stretched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 I find the signs, or at least the mottos on them, amateurish & patronising. Mind you, I think that calling boaters, customers, is patronising too. Poetry or verse carved onto lock-gates or whatever is fine by me though. Might get some carving chisels & do some myself, they couldn't really complain. I would have agreed with you but it seems the word customer is being used in its traditional form - according to Wiki: a customer customarily or habitually engages in transactions (historically: the collection of tolls or taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 I would have agreed with you but it seems the word customer is being used in its traditional form - according to Wiki: a customer customarily or habitually engages in transactions (historically: the collection of tolls or taxes True, but customer seems to be a generic term. I much prefer a more specific description where one is available. eg on the railway I am a passenger. On the canal I am a boater/walker/angler/cyclist as appropriate. George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starman Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 People know they're in Kinver, but they generally didn't know who CRT were. The new signs and banners are an attempt to get people to know who is actually in charge, as previously very few visitors actually knew. The rationale being, there's unlikely to be many donations unless people know who we are. I'd rather have new balance beams, paid for out of art funds, than no new balance beams at all, as the navigation budgets are stretched. That's a fair point but why not, then, have some signs that say CRT is a charity and maybe offer some indication of the money spent on the local canals each year? I was at Bingley Five Rise earlier this year which teems with visitors yet there is virtually nothing to tell them how much it costs to maintain the locks. And certainly no way of making donations. Contrast that with NT properties and even every village church where you can't get past the doorway without information about the cost of upkeep and a money box for donations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerra Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 That's a fair point but why not, then, have some signs that say CRT is a charity and maybe offer some indication of the money spent on the local canals each year? I was at Bingley Five Rise earlier this year which teems with visitors yet there is virtually nothing to tell them how much it costs to maintain the locks. And certainly no way of making donations. Contrast that with NT properties and even every village church where you can't get past the doorway without information about the cost of upkeep and a money box for donations. Good point. Have you suggested it to CRT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWoolcock Posted November 15, 2016 Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 Well I never send crew ahead, If going towards Rugely I go very slowly expecting to back out, once I can see the far end and there is no one in there then its mine. same going the other way, once I am 50 yards up if no one comes under the bridge again its mine. There are recently installed bollards at the east end. Slow right down strapping the boat gently on the centre line and take a peek. You can see all the way through. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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