Advice on Morso stove please - Repair or replace?

[Kate89]

Hi there,

 

My partner and I are new to boating and looking to buy a live aboard narrow boat. After viewing a lot of boats (my boyfriend is 6'2'' so has narrowed down our search!) today we have seen a boat that ticks the boxes. However the stove doesn't appear to be in good condition, there is a crack at the back of it (which doesn't appear to be coming through to the inside) and the chimney is very cracked and rusty. We're debating whether we would just replace it or could it be repaired? I have some photos but I don't know how to upload them, bear with me while I work it out and will hopefully upload them shortly.

[MtB]

Hi there,

 

My partner and I are new to boating and looking to buy a live aboard narrow boat. After viewing a lot of boats (my boyfriend is 6'2'' so has narrowed down our search!) today we have seen a boat that ticks the boxes. However the stove doesn't appear to be in good condition, there is a crack at the back of it (which doesn't appear to be coming through to the inside) and the chimney is very cracked and rusty. We're debating whether we would just replace it or could it be repaired? I have some photos but I don't know how to upload them, bear with me while I work it out and will hopefully upload them shortly.

 

 

Welcome Kate89,

 

The only practical option is to replace it. Cracked cast iron panels cannot be economically repaired. Technically possible yes but the cost would exceed the price of a new stove.

 

A new Squirrel was £800-ish last time I looked, or a cheap alternative is a "Boatman Stove" for about £350. (I replaced my own cracked Squirrel with a Boatman Stove and I HATE it, but pelnty of others on here like them. Gawd nose why!

[Kate89]

 

 

 

 

Welcome Kate89,

 

The only practical option is to replace it. Cracked cast iron panels cannot be economically repaired. Technically possible yes but the cost would exceed the price of a new stove.

 

A new Squirrel was £800-ish last time I looked, or a cheap alternative is a "Boatman Stove" for about £350. (I replaced my own cracked Squirrel with a Boatman Stove and I HATE it, but pelnty of others on here like them. Gawd nose why!

Hi Mike thanks for the advice. Yes we were thinking along the replace lines, just wanted to check we weren't being wasteful! We'll factor the cost of replacement into our offer.

[Bowiemad]

Would a stove in such poor condtion pass the BSC ? ( Im a new member looking to purchase a liveaboard in the next few weeks )

[Kate89]

Would a stove in such poor condtion pass the BSC ? ( Im a new member looking to purchase a liveaboard in the next few weeks )

I very much doubt it, which is why we would either need to repair or replace. The boat doesn't have a bsc currently.

[bizzard]

Hello, and welcome. Typical Morso. The busted top plate looks like its due to the weight of the flue pipe resting on it which is probably jammed solid in the roof collar and metal to metal which looks like its scorched the roof a little around the collar. Rust on the top plate possibly due to rain getting in too.

I would renew the stove and adapter, possibly the flue pipe if its ends are rusted away and the chimney of course. I would remove the roof collar and if still serviceable de gunge it and reseal it down on the roof. The flue pipe must not be a metal to metal fit in the collar but should have at least a 3/8'' gap all around fill with fire rope and heat proof goo so that the flue pipe can move up and down with differing temperatures instead of it putting undue force on the stove top plate. Those crappy Morso top plates are wafer thin. The stove looks a bit too close to the tiled surround, especially at the side. That needs investigating as the tiles might be fixed to plywood instead of fireproof board.

[Bowiemad]

Any thoughts on a good boat brokerage outfit in the uk ?

[Kate89]

Hello, and welcome. Typical Morso. The busted top plate looks like its due to the weight of the flue pipe resting on it which is probably jammed solid in the roof collar and metal to metal which looks like its scorched the roof a little around the collar. Rust on the top plate possibly due to rain getting in too.

I would renew the stove and adapter, possibly the flue pipe if its ends are rusted away and the chimney of course. I would remove the roof collar and if still serviceable de gunge it and reseal it down on the roof. The flue pipe must not be a metal to metal fit in the collar but should have at least a 3/8'' gap all around fill with fire rope and heat proof goo so that the flue pipe can move up and down with differing temperatures instead of it putting undue force on the stove top plate. Those crappy Morso top plates are wafer thin. The stove looks a bit too close to the tiled surround, especially at the side. That needs investigating as the tiles might be fixed to plywood instead of fireproof board.

Thanks for your excellent advice! So we'll probably have to rip the whole thing out and have a new one fitted, properly. I'll have a chat with the broker.

[bizzard]

Thanks for your excellent advice! So we'll probably have to rip the whole thing out and have a new one fitted, properly. I'll have a chat with the broker.

Yes, I'd say it needs redoing completely I'm afraid. And under that roof collar there will probably be a lot of heavy rusting of the roof which will need seeing to.

Edited October 21, 2016 by bizzard

[PaddingtonBear]

If the stove is in such appalling condition ,what is the rest of the boat like? You really must have a survey BEFORE you do any deals via the broker. The BSS is not anywhere near sufficient. Seek the guidance of the mighty throng on here with a few details/pictures perhaps?

[Neil2]

There seems to have been a lot of morso stove threads recently..?

 

I'm in complete agreement with MtB and Bizzard, except that the roof under the collar may not be as bad as it seems. It has to come off though.

 

To be fair to Morso, they do stress that a flue attached to the top plate must be supported so that the weight does not bear down on the plate, but I suspect lots of fitters ignore this, especially on boats. We have two Squirrels at home and the one that has a top plate flue has a substantial clamp and bracket taking the weight of the flue.

 

Also this type of stove will not tolerate any ingress of water, unlike a welded steel affair, and if you leave a cast stove on a winterised boat condensation alone could reduce the life span considerably.

 

If you have to pay someone to do the work it could be surprisingly expensive, but replacing a stove is not a difficult job for a competent DIYer and certainly one way to save a bit of cash.

 

But I also agree the state of the stove is a clear indicator the boat has been neglected - there will be further evidence, that's a safe bet. Tread carefully.

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Good pics. I would also try to remove one of the timber surrounds to the wall tiling and check the quality of the fire proof boarding onto which the tiles are fixed.

 

As PB wrote, I would be concerned as to the overall condition of the boat if the fire and flue are in this condition, a survey is essential.

 

Good luck, welded steel ones seem to fare better than the sectional cast iron jobs.

 

L

[Nightwatch]

Because Morso's are sectional you can purchse replacement panels. The inside seems to be rotten fire bricks.

 

A good coat of fire black would enhance the remainder. No idea how much to replace panels.

 

The roof collar looks okay. The chimney is deceased.

 

Having said that, to dismantle to replace panels may be tricky and lugs etc may get broken. Perhaps sell this one to a refurb chap, like on eBay. Part exchange??

 

As we have seen in another thread, you can purchase a refurbed unit for about £400 or there abouts.

 

Martyn

[MtB]

Because Morso's are sectional you can purchse replacement panels. The inside seems to be rotten fire bricks.

 

A good coat of fire black would enhance the remainder. No idea how much to replace panels.

 

The roof collar looks okay. The chimney is deceased.

 

Having said that, to dismantle to replace panels may be tricky and lugs etc may get broken. Perhaps sell this one to a refurb chap, like on eBay. Part exchange??

 

As we have seen in another thread, you can purchase a refurbed unit for about £400 or there abouts.

 

Martyn

 

 

Can we? That sounds interesting. Where, please?

[Neil2]

A brand new Swift - the same stove as the Squirrel without the, er, squirrel - is about £550 that's what I would buy.

[MtB]

A brand new Swift - the same stove as the Squirrel without the, er, squirrel - is about £550 that's what I would buy.

 

 

Beg to differ on that!

 

I've just checked the Swift and it lacks one of the main features that makes the Squirrel so good - a separate ash pan door.

[Taslim]

 

 

Beg to differ on that!

 

I've just checked the Swift and it lacks one of the main features that makes the Squirrel so good - a separate ash pan door.

^^^^As above. The Piddle may have its faults but it's good and practical.

 

O.P. The stove you show would improve by being hit with a hammer. Makes it easyer to get the rubbish off the boat.

 

P B #10 has a point but i have seen stoves in similar condition on otherwise great boats. The owners didn't use them and didn't cap the flue and cast stoves/firebricks don't like wet.

[MtB]

^^^^As above. The Piddle may have its faults but it's good and practical.

 

 

What's a Piddle? A brief google turns up nothing...

[Neil2]

Ah yes what I meant to say is an wouldn't waste my money on a swift because it doesn't have a separate ash pan door...

 

i wonder what you could get a squirrel for next Friday at Midlands chandlers?

[Kate89]

Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

Don't worry we're treading carefully with this boat. We're looking for a project but just interiors, we don't want anything with significant structural or mechanical issues. The current owner was very open about the fact that it hasn't been looked after for the past 12 months, so the interiors need some tlc. We're going to arrange to have a survey done hopefully next week, the last survey three years ago showed the hull to be in good condition so fingers crossed that's still the case. Hopefully the survey will shed some light on the condition of the roof/collar?

[cuthound]

Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

Don't worry we're treading carefully with this boat. We're looking for a project but just interiors, we don't want anything with significant structural or mechanical issues. The current owner was very open about the fact that it hasn't been looked after for the past 12 months, so the interiors need some tlc. We're going to arrange to have a survey done hopefully next week, the last survey three years ago showed the hull to be in good condition so fingers crossed that's still the case. Hopefully the survey will shed some light on the condition of the roof/collar?

If you talk to the surveyor before he actually surveys the boat you can tell him what you specifically want looking at, for example the roof/collar and fireproofing around the stove.

 

Better still, join him when he surveys your boat. He can then explain things that he may not put in writing.

 

Edited for phat phinger.

Edited October 22, 2016 by cuthound

[Neil2]

Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

Don't worry we're treading carefully with this boat. We're looking for a project but just interiors, we don't want anything with significant structural or mechanical issues. The current owner was very open about the fact that it hasn't been looked after for the past 12 months, so the interiors need some tlc. We're going to arrange to have a survey done hopefully next week, the last survey three years ago showed the hull to be in good condition so fingers crossed that's still the case. Hopefully the survey will shed some light on the condition of the roof/collar?

 

Unlikely.

 

The surveyor will only comment on what he can plainly see, or get at without too much trouble.

 

Anything concealed on a boat it's always a good idea to assume the worst.

 

Hull survey from three years ago is meaningless, if the blacking hasn't been kept up to scratch three years is long enough to cause serious rot.

 

It seems to be the holy grail of narrowboat buyers on a budget to find one with a "sound hull and engine" that just needs a bit of "TLC". You may well have found this rare commodity, but don't underestimate the cost of renovating a tired boat.

[David Mack]

Is the surveyor someone you have chosen, or were they recommended by the vendor or broker?

Edited October 22, 2016 by David Mack

[PaddingtonBear]

Take no notice of what either the vendor or the broker say nor the previous survey as that was done for someone else. The only survey that has any value to you is one done by a respected surveyor issued in your Nama and paid for by you. Even then use you 'nose' and common sense and let your head rule your heart. I did the reverse and came a massive cropper and continue to do so.

[Arthur Brown]

Sort out between you what you consider to be acceptable project, and what is too much/expensive to take on. If this boat is just the stove short of your ideal then get a survey and make an offer. With all parts of the stove and much of the chimney they are loose parts that can easily be removed, even if a hammer is needed! It's especially good advice to chose your own surveyor -you pay his fee whether or not you buy the boat and he owes you a duty of professional care, if you use the seller's or the vendor's surveyor then the survey is for their benefit not yours.

 

If the boat hasn't been cared for for long it may routinely need new batteries.