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Tiller Sweep


1agos

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Some days I steer for ten hours or more but apart from a satisfying overall tiredness, I don't get any particular aches or pains. I don't understand the idea that standing on the step means having to twist... Maybe the boat makes a difference?

I was taught to steer either standing just inside the rear doors, sideways on and changing sides to even up any strains there might be, or looking straight forwards, leaning back with the tiller in the small of my back or thereabouts . This is my preferred position, and it avoids any chance of being thrown over the counter.

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How pleasing to read a tale of human beings behaving like human beings.

 

That's a lovely story

 

I had a similar arrangement with a mate who was a chef by trade but cack handed mechanically. In return for a bit of bicycle maintenance he made us a Christmas pud every year and it became about the only thing about Xmas I looked forward to.

 

That was until he ran off to Lichfield with a Physiotherapist from Brazil who he met on the internet. I've taken a dim view of Brazilians ever since.

 

Do you think that will get me banned..?

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It's not always practicable to do that. We do some pruning and lopping (the weeping willow over the narrow bit below Cropredy lock is one of our specialities), but there's a high wall between the canal and the garden in which that tree grows, so we tend to throw the clippings either into the water or into the towpath hedge bottom instead. I suspect that's what most people do.

Please not in the water!

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I had a similar arrangement with a mate who was a chef by trade but cack handed mechanically. In return for a bit of bicycle maintenance he made us a Christmas pud every year and it became about the only thing about Xmas I looked forward to.

 

That was until he ran off to Lichfield with a Physiotherapist from Brazil who he met on the internet. I've taken a dim view of Brazilians ever since.

 

Do you think that will get me banned..?

I am always happy to exchange skills, sometimes a simple chat about how to manage trees swapped for a good meal

Theres something lovely about it

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Please not in the water!

I am only following the example of CART (where you are) and the MLC (where I am). They deposit all their grass cuttings in the cut/ river*. What's the problem with doing likewise with weeping willow leaves/ fronds/ whatever they are? I assume that fish and ducks will eat most of them.

 

* O.K., except for the ones which they stick on the side of your boat.

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A risk assessor would ask:

What is the likelihood of being propelled into the cut by the tiller.

Answer from this thread more likely when going in reverse.

 

Can the risk of being knocked into the cut by the tiller be eliminated.

Answer yes by standing on the top step etc.

 

but this then introduces another risk of injury for me( the cricked neck).

 

I suppose we all have all looked at the risk and adopted positions at the tiller as circumstances change. I change positions in & out of the hatch area on auto pilot as other boats approach or tight bends are navigated.

I'll never be beside the tiller in reverse or in locks.

 

Thanks for the discussion guy's.

The risk assessment should also look at the likely severity of injury as well as likelihood of an accident happening.

 

People have died from being knocked off the boat by the tiller. To the best of my knowledge no one has died from a cricked neck!

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I am only following the example of CART (where you are) and the MLC (where I am). They deposit all their grass cuttings in the cut/ river*. What's the problem with doing likewise with weeping willow leaves/ fronds/ whatever they are? I assume that fish and ducks will eat most of them.

 

* O.K., except for the ones which they stick on the side of your boat.

I think they can root, the ones on the ML did not cut by the MLC I might add

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I am only following the example of CART (where you are) and the MLC (where I am). They deposit all their grass cuttings in the cut/ river*. What's the problem with doing likewise with weeping willow leaves/ fronds/ whatever they are? I assume that fish and ducks will eat most of them.

 

* O.K., except for the ones which they stick on the side of your boat.

They do not always set the best example...

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Chap killed on the grand union, below Stoke Bruene quite a few years ago , swept off the back of the stern by tiller handle . He had an altercation with another boater and reversed, hit the bank ect.... Bunny ,

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Chap killed on the grand union, below Stoke Bruene quite a few years ago , swept off the back of the stern by tiller handle . He had an altercation with another boater and reversed, hit the bank ect.... Bunny ,

So, reversing again then. That's where the danger lies, where the rudder may both be pushed violently sideways and has the greatest leverage.

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So, reversing again then. That's where the danger lies, where the rudder may both be pushed violently sideways and has the greatest leverage.

But once you get into bad habits it's not always that easy to change your practice in different circumstances - particularly mid altercation.

Take whatever risks you like as an individual, but don't try to encourage others to do so.

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So, reversing again then. That's where the danger lies, where the rudder may both be pushed violently sideways and has the greatest leverage.

I will say this once again for the benefit of others.

 

There is also danger with forward motion if an obstruction strikes the balance plate. Perhaps only on a couple of occasions in 20+ years, when in forward motion, I have struck something which snatched the tiller from my grasp. Steering from the correct position, it presented no safety issue.

 

Steering from the counter is bad practice and creates an entirely avoidable danger.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

  • Greenie 3
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I will say this once again for the benefit of others.

 

There is also danger with forward motion if an obstruction strikes the balance plate. Perhaps only on a couple of occasions in 20+ years, when in forward motion, I have struck something which snatched the tiller from my grasp. Steering from the correct position, it presented no safety issue.

 

Steering from the counter is bad practice and creates an entirely avoidable danger.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Well said George

 

have a greenie

 

Top Cat

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But once you get into bad habits it's not always that easy to change your practice in different circumstances - particularly mid altercation.

Take whatever risks you like as an individual, but don't try to encourage others to do so.

 

I'm not trying to encourage others to do anything, merely to assess the risks in a balanced way. I think the hyperbole of the 'suicide seat' and similar reactions are unhelpful in that. Read my earlier posts and this might be more clear.

 

I don't advocate standing in the swept arcs, and certainly would advise against it very strongly when going astern or in a lock where involuntary reversing is a possibility. To clarify my own position, I never venture into the swept arcs when manoeuvring, reversing, or in a lock. Actually, in a lock my tiller is hard over to lower the risk of a rudder strike and my tiller bar is sized not to foul the lock sides in that position.

 

What I'm trying to do my my questioning or observations is assess what the level of danger there is when going ahead. I perceive it as vanishingly small because anything hitting the rudder would have to come along the baseplate and through the propeller disc to then hit the small balance plate which has very little leverage, or strike a glancing blow on the main rudder blade. Clearly it's a possibility, because TC has hit a bike so hard that it lifted the rudder out of its cup! However, that takes an upward force and the turning moment on the tiller is less quantifiable. Furnessvale has also had the tiller snatched from his hand by striking something but, again, that's not really quantifiable as the turning moment to do that is rather less than to sweep someone over the side. I keep a light hand on my tiller, so I expect the same would happen to me in those circumstances.

 

 

 

I will say this once again for the benefit of others.

 

There is also danger with forward motion if an obstruction strikes the balance plate. Perhaps only on a couple of occasions in 20+ years, when in forward motion, I have struck something which snatched the tiller from my grasp. Steering from the correct position, it presented no safety issue.

 

Steering from the counter is bad practice and creates an entirely avoidable danger.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

I don't disagree with anything you say there George, rarely do with your posts in fact, but the achievable steering positions are different on different styles of stern and even on individual boats of the same style. What works for you on yours may not work for everyone and they'll be far better able to assess the pros and cons of the positions they can steer from if the debate covers the various risk implications. A blanket 'don't stand there, not ever, or you'll surely die horribly' doesn't do that and folk might then be more inclined to ignore the danger than consider their own position.
  • Greenie 1
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About four years ago, North of Cropredy, a lady hireboater was knocked off the boat by a swinging tiller and killed. So, yes, it does happen.

In all fairness the boat was in a lock (Varney's) in reverse.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Convenient timing but I swear this is true (because if I was going to make it up I would have done so long ago).

 

I was coming up the Coventry towards Hawkesbury on Sunday and went over something in bridge 22. Immediately knocked it out of gear, rode over whatever it was, and the tiller swung wildly to the right and was snatched out of my hand. Going forwards.

 

Not with as much force as I've had happen when reversing (I've had the rudder out twice), but certainly enough to knock someone off balance if they had been caught by it.

 

So don't stand in range of the tiller.

 

(By the way, I've just spent an absolutely perfect weekend (Sat-Mon) single handing from Alvecote to Braunston; it was utterly brilliant. And what weather!)

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I do sit on the hatch slide from time to time but I soon get a numb bum. I have been meaning to make a cushioned piece to attach to the gunnel and slide but not got around to it yet. We do have an extra wide hatch so we can both get in front of the tillers arc.

Can I suggest a kneeling mat as used by gardeners. Some are well padded and even bum shaped.

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  • 5 months later...
On 19/10/2016 at 21:39, Tacet said:

Like others, I prefer to stand sideways in the hatches, leaning back against one side and (ideally) toes against something firm the other. Switching sides for a change can be done, but it requires holding the tiller with the "wrong" hand, so I tend to revert before too long. I have also found that the twist induced in the body and neck develops - such that taking the other side is less comfortable.

 

Sitting on the cabin (and maybe steering with a leg) or facing forward with the end of the tiller in the small of the back can be fine too, depending on the details but when steering gets a bit tricky, I am back to the hatches.

 

I don't deny its possible, but I have never (yet) had a tiller sweep out of my hands whilst travelling in either direction - but can see the far greater prospects and more serious consequences when in reverse gear, so my habits take account.

 

If I had a boat built, I would have a longer (but not wider) sliding hatch than the customary square shape. Having boated extensively with and without, it does allow a second person to stand in safety, particularly if they stand lower than the steerer's step. It also makes access to and from the counter much easier in a modern trad. Apart from a less-traditional look, there is little downside.

 

 

i,d agree with this. If i had the wealth i,d customise the hatch on on my trad to make it longer and open further forward to enable the OH to sit or stand comfortably and safely forward of me in the hatchway. I use a tall narrow vase stand as a bar stool in the hatchway, we can both sit on it at times and doubles up as a useful step updown to the cabin roof.

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On 20/10/2016 at 00:16, Dave Payne said:

True, even more so if I have a tasty cup of coffee and then have to decide on spilling said coffee or getting another dent...

i suppose very tall basket ball players may straddle the tiller arm when facing forward, steering with their inner thighs. Would this be considered risky ?

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On 20/10/2016 at 00:51, Dave Payne said:

And some parts of the N Oxford between ansty and rugby, last time I went down I went down I was tempted to get my scissors out and trim some bush, zero visibility on some bends.

Thats my territory, i know it well. I just cruise slowly, always ready for the boater who,s at water skiing speed, half pissed and chatting to the guests on those blind bends. Its happened a few times. I assume that if i havent met a boat for some time, theres a convoy approaching now, not that the cut is empty today.

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