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Tiller Sweep


1agos

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When I ran over the bike we were going forwards. You hit an object that rolls under the boat and hits one side of the rudder harder than the other.

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Or as previously mentioned, it hooks on the balance plate of the rudder.

 

 

OK, but the forces involved and length of the levers involved there are hardly sufficient to clear the decks above travelling forward. I'm not suggesting you guys are standing in the wrong place, far from it, and I agree that the swept arcs of the tiller are best avoided. It's just that it's difficult to see how the forces of anything striking the rudder of a Narrowboat going ahead can get big enough to throw the steerer over the side.

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When I ran over the bike the force was sufficient to force the rudder up out out of its seat and it took a hell of a lot of force to get back as the bearing had to be forced back down the shaft. The bike was rolling between the boat and the ( in that location) hard bottom of the canal. As it rolled the rear forks hit the rudder on one side forcing the rudder over to one side. I know it was a bike as it briefly surfaced behind the boat.

 

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Even more inexplicable is owners of semi-trads standing out there. They've got a whole deck to stand on, but apparently prefer to be in the wrong place.

We had a share in a semi trad and I always stood on the counter as it was the most uncomfortable thing I could think of trying to stand within the semi deck, lust not designed for steering, in fact I can't think what they are for because I even found them uncomfortable for sitting in when not steering. Now I always stand inside the hatch

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Most people seem to think the counter is the place to stand. It makes me cringe every time I see it -- and even more so if they're trying to do a turn and are actually getting in their own way

 

If I was king, I'd have every counter painted with yellow cross hatches and 'no standing' signs -- until people had got the message.

 

Even more inexplicable is owners of semi-trads standing out there. They've got a whole deck to stand on, but apparently prefer to be in the wrong place.

Now if I was king, I'd get ABC to cut off all those taff-rails and move the morse so you could only reach it from in front of the tiller. Some of the maneuvers (how do you spell that?) I've seen hirers trying to accomplish whilst sitting down are frightening.

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We had a share in a semi trad and I always stood on the counter as it was the most uncomfortable thing I could think of trying to stand within the semi deck, lust not designed for steering, in fact I can't think what they are for because I even found them uncomfortable for sitting in when not steering. Now I always stand inside the hatch

Grace is a semitrad and I find it quite comfortable to steer stood within the semi deck, lots of room to move about. I also have a choice of two seated positions.

It all comes down to the detail design rather than the generic style. I'm sure there are good and bad examples of all three styles.

 

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When I first volunteered on Tarporley, and was being 'trained', the 'trainer' plonked himself in the hatches and asked me which side I wanted to stand. I replied 'I want to stand where you are, please' and refused to set off until he moved. It didn't fill me with confidence (although the boating practice I got and being their first ever skipper to take an all female crew out on a trip did, eventually).

Tarp's swan's neck was bent with the result that they could only use a short tiller otherwise it wouldn't clear the cabin top. It was pretty heavy work.

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Not helped by the very high tillers some modern boats have to allow them to be higher than the high cabin. I do see some boaters looking very awkward with their steering arm twisted up behind their back.

I guess the cabin sides need to be higher because the hull is less deep on a modern boat. Another argument in favour of an old one! I am not tall (5'3") but the tiller sits nicely in the small of my back (meaning I can steer with no hands on not very bendy bits). When I get my new step (which will be soon :-) I am going to see if it's possible to make it a little higher but more for visibility than comfort. I am also going to have it projecting deeper into the cabin so I can stand further forward without my toes hanging over the edge.

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OK, but the forces involved and length of the levers involved there are hardly sufficient to clear the decks above travelling forward. I'm not suggesting you guys are standing in the wrong place, far from it, and I agree that the swept arcs of the tiller are best avoided. It's just that it's difficult to see how the forces of anything striking the rudder of a Narrowboat going ahead can get big enough to throw the steerer over the side.

I think I'm in agreement with you on this. I have hit a variety of underwater obstacles over the years (supermarket trollies, bikes,logs, an indeterminate lump of metal (possibly a sunken boat) and a couple of sandbars, and none of them has had any major impact on the tiller arm that I have been holding. My usual reaction is to knock the gear lever into neutral and work things out from there. I also adopt the posture of standing with the tiller under my arm steering by very small body movements so it doesn't feel like steering at all, it seems as though the boat is doing it all, and I will continue to steer in this manner. This isn't to say that it is the only possible position that I use, clearly any need to push the tiller hard over and, oddly enough , that is what I will do (possibly from a different position) before restoring myself to the comfortable straight ahead position. I also stand clear of the tiller arm when in reverse since the danger is more obvious if you hit something the tiller will clearly swing violently one way or the other and take you over the side into the path of the approaching propeller. Whilst the boat is going fowards however, in the unlikely event of being knocked overboard by a wildly swinging tillerunsure.png , I can swim and the boat is going away from me, only real harm is to dignityblush.png . I don't hold with this sitting sideways idea at all, it puts a twist into your spine which is fine if you are only doing it for 10 minutes or so but on some days I steer for 4 hours or more and I'd really like my back to still work after that, if possible. The position that I stand and steer in means that at the end of a day, no matter how long I may have been steering for, nothing aches. Compare that to the occasions when the OH takes over the helm steering in the traditional way by standing inside the semi deck and gripping the tiller with her hand, in less than half an hour she will tell me that her arm is aching and needs a rest.

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Some days I steer for ten hours or more but apart from a satisfying overall tiredness, I don't get any particular aches or pains. I don't understand the idea that standing on the step means having to twist... Maybe the boat makes a difference?

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I also stand clear of the tiller arm when in reverse since the danger is more obvious

I think that's the key issue, along with surging backwards in locks. The danger of 'suicide seat' hyperbole is that the serious message of keeping clear of tiller arcs in those circumstances is lost.

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Some days I steer for ten hours or more but apart from a satisfying overall tiredness, I don't get any particular aches or pains. I don't understand the idea that standing on the step means having to twist... Maybe the boat makes a difference?

Yes, your method of standing on the step with the tiller in the small of your back is fine since you, like me, are facing directly forwards. Those who sit on either side are the one's who will be twisting their neck/back. Part of my reason for where I stand is because if the OH wants to join me at the back on our Trad Stern, if I'm standing on the step there is nowhere for her to go, if I'm standing on the counter she can stand on the step.

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Yes, your method of standing on the step with the tiller in the small of your back is fine since you, like me, are facing directly forwards. Those who sit on either side are the one's who will be twisting their neck/back. Part of my reason for where I stand is because if the OH wants to join me at the back on our Trad Stern, if I'm standing on the step there is nowhere for her to go, if I'm standing on the counter she can stand on the step.

 

If you steer from the hatch step you have several different positions you can adopt and you can lean in three directions for support as well. But I think the key is getting the step at the correct height for the steerer, I mucked about with it a bit before I got it right but last month we did 81 miles and 30 locks in three straight days, no aches or pains at all. I couldn't have done that standing on the counter.

 

As for wheel steering I've witnessed people trying to pilot a narrowboat with this method it's painful to watch. Totally unnecessary unless you have a serious disability.

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People can stand where they want to steer, it is entirely their choice, but I for one, will continue to reserve that rueful look for steerers out on the counter, boats fitted with tractor seats or rails, and boats that look like the hanging gardens of Babylon.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

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People can stand where they want to steer, it is entirely their choice, but I for one, will continue to reserve that rueful look for steerers out on the counter, boats fitted with tractor seats or rails, and boats that look like the hanging gardens of Babylon.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

Hear hear. And boats with Red Ensigns (or worse still, Union Jacks) strapped to the tiller.

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Yes, your method of standing on the step with the tiller in the small of your back is fine since you, like me, are facing directly forwards. Those who sit on either side are the one's who will be twisting their neck/back. Part of my reason for where I stand is because if the OH wants to join me at the back on our Trad Stern, if I'm standing on the step there is nowhere for her to go, if I'm standing on the counter she can stand on the step.

That's why you change sides often. You haven't got to face in one direction all day!

 

Can your OH not stand on the gunwales, if there's no room in the hatch? We do, or sit on the cabin-top, getting down where necessary.

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Like others, I prefer to stand sideways in the hatches, leaning back against one side and (ideally) toes against something firm the other. Switching sides for a change can be done, but it requires holding the tiller with the "wrong" hand, so I tend to revert before too long. I have also found that the twist induced in the body and neck develops - such that taking the other side is less comfortable.

 

Sitting on the cabin (and maybe steering with a leg) or facing forward with the end of the tiller in the small of the back can be fine too, depending on the details but when steering gets a bit tricky, I am back to the hatches.

 

I don't deny its possible, but I have never (yet) had a tiller sweep out of my hands whilst travelling in either direction - but can see the far greater prospects and more serious consequences when in reverse gear, so my habits take account.

 

If I had a boat built, I would have a longer (but not wider) sliding hatch than the customary square shape. Having boated extensively with and without, it does allow a second person to stand in safety, particularly if they stand lower than the steerer's step. It also makes access to and from the counter much easier in a modern trad. Apart from a less-traditional look, there is little downside.

 

 

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Yes, your method of standing on the step with the tiller in the small of your back is fine since you, like me, are facing directly forwards. Those who sit on either side are the one's who will be twisting their neck/back. Part of my reason for where I stand is because if the OH wants to join me at the back on our Trad Stern, if I'm standing on the step there is nowhere for her to go, if I'm standing on the counter she can stand on the step.

On the gunnel, on the towpath side, holding the handrail.

People can stand where they want to steer, it is entirely their choice, but I for one, will continue to reserve that rueful look for steerers out on the counter, boats fitted with tractor seats or rails, and boats that look like the hanging gardens of Babylon.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

And dangly fenders.

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This thread has demonstrated that different positions suit different people and of course individuals must make their own risk assessments and weigh up comfort against safety (where the design of the boat doesn't allow both to be achieved simultaneously).

 

However, hopefully the message will have come through loud and clear to the OP that there *is* a risk in standing within the arc of the tiller - even if only one of the posters in the thread has experienced the tiller swinging hard while going forwards - we can argue about how big a risk it is, but it having happened just once might be enough for some people to wish to avoid it. And that was what the OP asked - had it ever happened. Thousands of people saying it has never happened to them don't prove that it couldn't happen - perhaps to them, perhaps tomorrow - but one person saying it did proves that it can happen.

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That's why you change sides often. You haven't got to face in one direction all day!

 

Can your OH not stand on the gunwales, if there's no room in the hatch? We do, or sit on the cabin-top, getting down where necessary.

Why change sides often when, if facing directly forwards, there is no need to. I can at least see the sense in standing in the hatch with the tiller in the small of your back facing forwards, but sitting sideways seems as daft to me as sitting sidesaddle at the computer then changing sides to avoid getting a crick in your neckunsure.png . Is there anything else that people sit sideways for? driving a car? watching television? I can't think of any since we seem to be designed to sit/stand facing what we are doing.

 

In terms of the OH standing on the gunwhales, short answer is no. She doesn't walk or stand on the gunwhales and she doesn't do lock ladders (her choice). Her reason for not walking on the gunwhales is that she sees a risk of inadvertently stepping on the tube fenders which lie on the gunwhales whilst we are under way and of her falling over the side. I can't argue with that since I have done that (I didn't fall in but my foot hit the water). Personally I see a greater risk in falling in alongside the boat whilst travelling along than falling off the stern since with the latter the boat is already going away from you. If you fall in alongside, the sensible helm immediately knocks the boat into neutral but that doesn't prevent the person in the water being at risk of being crushed since trying to stop the boat by putting it in reverse is probably the worst possible thing to do, just let the boat drift past them and hope nothing gets caught.

 

The general theme seems to be each to their own way of doing things, most of what we do carries a risk of some sort, if you had to do a risk assessment of a lock you'd never go near the things with all those things you could fall from, trap part of your body in, get struck by or get sucked into (or a combination of all !!).wacko.png

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I stand in front of the tiller on my cruiser, put the tiller in the middle of my back, hands in my pocket or drinking tea and steer with my back, of course this is only ok if heading straight or minor bends.

 

Waiting now for comments how bad this is....

Not bad at all, I'm sure lots of us have done that, and boy, don't it look cool?

 

Until the tiller slips from your back and the boat veers into the bank before you can retrieve the errant stick.

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