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I thought all was well but.............................

 

It started up twice yesterday, but today the problems back, it starts up but then at some point after the pumps started ticking (sometimes soon after, other times its sped up and sounds like it's started running for a minute) it shuts down again, although now I get a massive cloud of smoke for a few seconds as soon as it goes into shutdown mode. (I've not been able to pick up the contact cleaner etc yet though, so havent been able to clean all contacts yet)

 

Is this still the connections causing it or something else? I only ask before I've done them because there wasn't this much smoke before.

 

Thanks,

Steve

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I thought all was well but.............................

 

It started up twice yesterday, but today the problems back, it starts up but then at some point after the pumps started ticking (sometimes soon after, other times its sped up and sounds like it's started running for a minute) it shuts down again, although now I get a massive cloud of smoke for a few seconds as soon as it goes into shutdown mode. (I've not been able to pick up the contact cleaner etc yet though, so havent been able to clean all contacts yet)

 

Is this still the connections causing it or something else? I only ask before I've done them because there wasn't this much smoke before.

 

Thanks,

Steve

Check the voltage at the heater during start up first just to be sure but I strongly suspect a new burner kit is needed. How many Kw is it loaded with, i.e. how many and what size rads do you have and are they single or double panel?

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Thanks NMEA,

 

I can't remember exactly what type and total Kw the rads are, but they are the better doubles and it's over what the marine guide or you recommended I install (think it was 10% over on rads, not counting pipework or calorifier and I was slightly over that). That being said, it's been running all summer for hot water with just 2 rads left on (a small one and another about 1800-2kw at the far end of the spine).

 

So essentially if I do the connections and fuses, then test the voltage reaching the heater and it still won't start I probably need a burner kit then, is that a DIY job (it's gotta be on youtube) and will I need a full service kit too or are the bits in there anyway?

 

All rads are full up, it's a presurised system, so I've not needed to bleed any of them so far.

Edited by steve_gts
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OK, so it may have been cycling a bit in the summer, inless you only ran it for an hour or so for water, obviously properly loaded otherwise. Fitting a new burner is pretty straight forward and all the bits even down to new screws and gaskets are in the kit. I can let you have the service manual if you want to do it yourself. The only thing you will not be able to do is set the CO2 level after service.

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Yes a tank of water (or I assume the top half as it's plumbed into the top coil) was taking less than an hour, sometimes I'd hear it go into the lower power mode, but took that as time to turn it off anyway, so it may have cycled, but not for long. The wood burners running 24/7, so we only ever run it for about an hour, even when powering all the rads, it's usually just used on the timer when the OH get's up for early shifts, it's rarely on other than that and for water (in winter all rads are always open too).

 

My only worry with changing the burner is that something else could be on the way out as it's started making a bit of a straining noise (hard to explain, but fluctuations in the tone) when it's trying to start up since this all began, or is that a sign of burner failure anyway?

 

Yes if you could send me the service manual that would be great, I'm hoping it's just a power issue so will do that at the weekend first, but I'll PM my email address.

 

Thanks again for the help.

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Forgive my not fully reading the first post but I saw this is only just over a year old, so still under warranty (three years) and if installed to Webasto instructions and a marine kit will still be under warranty so call your local Webasto dealer with the serial number and get a warranty call out.

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Hi

 

this may seem really obvious but the only time we have had problems is when the diesel level was low (this was the same time we realised that our handbook lied about how big our fuel tank was !) perhaps it is time for a top up ?

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Another favourite to cause these symptoms is an airlock in the heater unit itself... the ebbys have a bleed screw on the top i assume the webastos have something similar ...

 

Rick

Nope, but they are less susceptible to air locks as the outlet is right at the top where Hydronics have a slight air gap above the outlet.

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This happens because the heater pick up pipe nnever goes to the bottom of the tank so you always have fuel for motive power to fill up and your heater cant run your tank out

 

Rick

That can depend on who installed it. I know of one installation that was the other way round installed by a Liverpool boat builder.

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Hi dc

 

we know that now but when it happened we had not had the boat long and also the handbook was wrong ....... yes we ran out of fuel and felt like a proper pair of idiots !rolleyes.gif

After 30 years of boating i still learn something new everyday (as below)!

 

Nope, but they are less susceptible to air locks as the outlet is right at the top where Hydronics have a slight air gap above the outlet.

Never played with webasto water heaters only the blown air ones ... will remember that :)

 

That can depend on who installed it. I know of one installation that was the other way round installed by a Liverpool boat builder.

? does that mean at least you could get warm and have a shower before walking down the towpath with a fuel can!

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That can depend on who installed it. I know of one installation that was the other way round installed by a Liverpool boat builder.

Indeed, I've had to "circumcise" a few improperly installed dip tubes before now.

  • Greenie 1
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  • 4 years later...

I have a Webasto Top Z/C-D (diesel) that is failing to start.  Some basic checks have been done, unfortunately I don't have access to the £500 diagnostic box so I cannot see the fault codes.

 

1. Using the timer unit (the "flame" button) the heater units starts up and runs at a fairly high speed and there is positive pressure at the exhaust outlet.

2. There is no white smoke or smell of diesel.

3. After 30 seconds or so (sorry, I didn't time it, the unit shuts down)

4. There is +13.5v at the power connector (X2) so low voltage is not suspected

5. There is plenty of fuel in the tank and it is flowing freely in to the separate pump input.

6. There is no fuel being pumped when the pump is connected to the unit but it performs on the bench i.e. by pulsing 12v it pumps a small amount of fuel per pulse.

7. I can measure 10-12v on the pump connector when the unit is running using a multimeter, I don't have an oscilloscope to look at pulses.

8. I have reset as per the service manual by removing the fuse at the appropriate moment.

 

I am suspecting that the unit is not sending pulses to the fuel pump.  The blue wire from connector X1 to the pump is intact as is the ground connection.

 

Any ideas? Hopefully there is a DIY fix for this as the spare part prices appear to be in "How much???" category.  For those reasons I am keen to avoid a module swap out approach.

 

If there is no DIY fix, is there a recommended repair option in the Braunston area?

 

Thanks.

 

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11 minutes ago, GRLMK38 said:

7. I can measure 10-12v on the pump connector when the unit is running using a multimeter, I don't have an oscilloscope to look at pulses.

This would suggest to me that there may be a voltage 'problem'

 

My eberspacher shuts down at 'approx 10v'

 

 

 

 

Screenshot (13).png

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42 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This would suggest to me that there may be a voltage 'problem'

 

My eberspacher shuts down at 'approx 10v'

 

 

 

 

Screenshot (13).png

Thanks Alan

 

I will need to work out how to measure it accurately at the pump due to the fact it's a pulsed signal.  A scope would do it but it's not something I have easy access to.

 

The supply voltage to the heater/fan unit is fine and is sat at float voltage (connected to a shoreline).  So at this stage I suspect there is an ECU issue.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Cas446 said:

43 quid on eBay, with software.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224140130964

 

Sounds like pump issue, the software is quite helpful.

 

Thanks Cas446

 

I had seen these.  The CD-ROM would be a challenge but not impossible.

 

Have you got first hand experience of the same device?

 

 

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38 minutes ago, GRLMK38 said:

Thanks Cas446

 

I had seen these.  The CD-ROM would be a challenge but not impossible.

 

Have you got first hand experience of the same device?

 

 

Yes, this exact one. Given the issue you have, the software would be the least  cost route as you can read the fault code and exercise the pump via the heater. Do you have a fuel filter, if not you may have some rubbish in the pump, take the pump off and give it a good shake. If the CD is an issue, ask the seller to email you it. The software is also available to download from various sources.

Edited by Cas446
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25 minutes ago, Cas446 said:

Yes, this exact one. Given the issue you have, the software would be the least  cost route as you can read the fault code and exercise the pump via the heater. Do you have a fuel filter, if not you may have some rubbish in the pump, take the pump off and give it a good shake. If the CD is an issue, ask the seller to email you it. The software is also available to download from various sources.

I think it's worth a punt.  At least the next steps are based on facts rather than guesswork.

 

Yes, there is an inline fuel filter fitted.  It was new earlier this year and there are no obvious bits in it.

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