Advice re car radio

[FORTUNATA]

An interesting transition was the late Fifties portable Vidor radios. These ran on 90 volt batteries that were small enough to fit in the case. They could be taken out for picnics and so on. There was a handle fitted or some had crocodile casing. They were killed instantly by the sudden arrival of the Transistor radio. Many of these sounded great due to the germanium transistors. My car radios have both the infamous AF177's and the OC range of transistors. Of course the UK took a real blow when Japan took the lead in transistorised sets. There was still Roberts and Bush but Japan and Hong Kong dominated the market. One day I'd like to fix up an old Vidor set as they were cutting edge in tube technology. They just stood no chance against an alternative that needed just 9 volts. These latter also came in leather carrier cases so great for carrying around.

[Guest]

Many players of electric guitars still use valve amps, and pay big money for them. It is rumoured that some bands hide their valve amps behind the sponsored modern stuff on live stage performances.

[Paul C]

Many players of electric guitars still use valve amps, and pay big money for them. It is rumoured that some bands hide their valve amps behind the sponsored modern stuff on live stage performances.

 

Its the other way round. Bands have a typically-well known Marshall stack and head; yet they might be unpowered, preferring these days to use in-ear monitors for stage sound and a Kemper amp modeller for FOH.

[WotEver]

I use a beautiful sounding valve pre-amp for recording vocals simply because I've not found anything since that sounds as sweet or faithful.

[Paul C]

I use a beautiful sounding valve pre-amp for recording vocals simply because I've not found anything since that sounds as sweet or faithful.

 

Interestingly though, since about 1970 boffins with white coats on have successfully produced amplifiers which are scientifically proven to be "faithful", in fact there is a well known acronym, FRFR, "full range flat response". It is quite possible to go out and purchase, for example, a FRFR PA system if you have a specific need for doing so, for a bit of a premium. They are perceived to sound a bit sterile, though. These amplifiers don't contain valves and are typically digital, because valves colour the sound. BUT - and this is the important bit - the way that valves colour/alter the sound is widely perceived as being a natural (even though its non-linear) way to subtly alter the sound and makes it sound sweeter. They can't be said to be truly faithful in the same way a FRFR amplifier is.

 

So, "sweet" and "faithful" are somewhat mutually exclusive and each has its place.

[WotEver]

Yes, but I am referring to a sweet and faithful subjective listening test, not a measurable flat frequency response using reference microphones.

 

Interestingly, many years ago I was asked to dep at a recording studio at the last moment to record some vocals. The instructions were to record them as clean and uncoloured as possible for later processing. When we later viewed the recordings on a spectrum analyser the cleanest ones were virtually flat - it surprised us.

I also designed a flat, virtually distortion-free front end for a mixing desk back in the early 80's. It was about as perfect as a pre-amp could be. The general consensus was that it sounded 'soulless'.

[Paul C]

Yeah, I agree, and its an interesting subject. My delicate little ears simply aren't sensitive to pick up the small differences, but I massively respect sound engineers who can & do know all about these things and can use the equipment available today, to best effect. Swerving slightly off topic, guitarists widely perceive valve amplifiers as "the best" to have due to their tonal qualities....however there have been some interesting innovations recently. The Kemper is about £1800 but these days you can buy a £100 digital modelling amp which is doing a similar thing and its only a matter of time before they catch up and make traditional valve amps reduntant:

 

[cuthound]

Up until the early 1970'stages hifi magazines used to test amplifiers by measuring for distortion.

 

Since then magazines have used subjective tests, however this does leave the tests open to "advertiser" pressure.

[Guest]

 

Its the other way round. Bands have a typically-well known Marshall stack and head; yet they might be unpowered, preferring these days to use in-ear monitors for stage sound and a Kemper amp modeller for FOH.

I've seen different, but won't argue. Edited October 21, 2016 by Guest

[Paul C]

I've seen different, but won't argue.

 

 

Oh yeah of course, you're right in that most guitarists still use valve amps. The Kemper/digital modelling thing is a relatively new concept and only a handful of musicians have adopted it for on the road - but it makes sense, especially now that its gotten to the level that nobody can tell the difference. And you're right about some musicians endorsing brands which are clearly visible on stage, might be plugged in, but the slider on the mixing desk is on zero.....

[Guest]

 

 

Oh yeah of course, you're right in that most guitarists still use valve amps. The Kemper/digital modelling thing is a relatively new concept and only a handful of musicians have adopted it for on the road - but it makes sense, especially now that its gotten to the level that nobody can tell the difference. And you're right about some musicians endorsing brands which are clearly visible on stage, might be plugged in, but the slider on the mixing desk is on zero.....

Modelling has reached a remarkable level, even the small stomp box thing I have has some amazing effects. There will be a day when the valve amps are laid to rest (sadly.) In the meantime, still loads of AC30's gigging, along with vintage Les Pauls, Strats and Teles! I could have bought a working AC30 a good few years ago for 40 quid, also a High Watt Head (75 quid IIRC) They would bring considerably more today

[Paul C]

Interesting, there's a feeling that Les Paul are in decline - they really are a bit overpriced compared to Fender's products, and there's a few issues in the design which are basically "design issues" which can't be gotten around - a number of them don't balance well, and the angle the G and D strings take over the nut means the G string (since its the unwound one) regularly goes out of tune, unless the nut is lubricated and spot on.

 

Fender Strat and Teles are still very popular......after all there is nothing really wrong with their design! Although they have just discontinued the American Standard Strat.....

[FORTUNATA]

This is another reason I dislike Ebay. I had a GEC Fifties set come my way but later found all the metal cans had been emptied. Not a single one left. I winded up using silicon diodes to make the rectifier. Then I had to trace the actual tubes. That wasn't easy as the set used either Octals or 7 pins. Fortunately the radio now works and sits in my boat. It's a combo because the rectifier is Silicon. The sound is pretty decent butv not as good as a Saalburg. Still to gut radios and sell the tubes on Ebay is a sad practice. I was glad to have undone the damage.

[Guest]

Interesting, there's a feeling that Les Paul are in decline - they really are a bit overpriced compared to Fender's products, and there's a few issues in the design which are basically "design issues" which can't be gotten around - a number of them don't balance well, and the angle the G and D strings take over the nut means the G string (since its the unwound one) regularly goes out of tune, unless the nut is lubricated and spot on.

 

Fender Strat and Teles are still very popular......after all there is nothing really wrong with their design! Although they have just discontinued the American Standard Strat.....

Hank B certainly seems happy with the Strat! Never owned one but played a couple and they just feel right somehow. I did like my LP though. Have to make do with a home made "travel" caster now

[Paul C]

I can't decide.....so I have one of each!

[Guest]

I can't decide.....so I have one of each!

Seems fair enough to me

[FORTUNATA]

There is one radio I have that caused me problems. It has 1930's Cossor valves the size of pepper pots. The tricky part was the filament circuit. This was just 2 volts. The main HT was 120 volts but sadly I never got the chance to apply it. The filaments were not drawing current. Maybe the air vacuum had leaked but, with no filament draw, I ceased work on it. I do know the filaments on the Thirties battery sets are delicate. Neither do they glow. I could try using Russian military tubes and give it another go. The Cossor tubes did rattle and the bases were loose but who knows.... I may get another set from somewhere.

[FORTUNATA]

In those days a 90 volt lead acid run receiver was your only source of connection with the world news. That set would have covered all of WW2. The state it was in was dire. Rubber insulation breaking off wire. Chassis coated in muck. Lots of short circuited wire. It pretty much had to be rebuilt so I was disappointed the tube heaters were kaput.

[Iain_S]

Might just have been one. A lo of sets (especially the ones with indirectly heated valves) had the heaters in series, so if one blew, all the valves went dark.

[FORTUNATA]

I looked into that already. The filaments were in parallel. So the total resistance would have been smaller from end to end. Usually the total current would be one amp at 2 volts. I don't know if I screwed up somehow or it was to do with loss of vacuum. The valves did rattle from day one and the bases were loose. I did learn later these battery filaments can be much more delicate. Maybe I will try again if I come across a job lot of Cossor Tubes. That was a pre-superhet radio so very antiquated.

[spadefoot]

So there we have it. Ditch the car radio, set up a Marshall stack & play your guitar through a Bluetooth boombox hidden behind it.

[Sea Dog]

So there we have it. Ditch the car radio, set up a Marshall stack & play your guitar through a Bluetooth boombox hidden behind it.

We'll done for getting the thread back to serious advice with relevance to the OP!

[FORTUNATA]

He could be different and seek out a 1920's crystal set with phones. Not sure of the price but they need no power.

[Guest]

So there we have it. Ditch the car radio, set up a Marshall stack & play your guitar through a Bluetooth boombox hidden behind it.

I have a lovely little Marshall practice amp which runs off a pp9 (soon to be tweaked for 12V.) Not bad sound for its size, and I often plug an MP3 player etc. into it. A bit of fun, but useful.

[Sea Dog]

I have a Vox which has quite clever modern electronics but also has a valve in the final stage. It can emulate lots of modern and vintage amps, including the AC30 mentioned earlier. It would possibly be quite close to the best of both worlds to someone who could work it. It might also help to play well enough to do it justice. Sadly, that's me out on both counts!