new boat options

[regthecat]

Hi All,

 

Newbie here. I am looking to buy a narrowboat ealy next year and after about 6 months research, viewings, ponerings etc I have narrowed it down a bit but could do with some advice/input from the old guard.

 

budget is around 30 - 40 K

I want to live on it

about 55 - 60ft

 

As far as hulls are concerned I think I want to look at Mike Heywood, Mike Christian, Colecraft, R&W, Tyler Wilson (If affordable) because these are ones recommended and to be fair whenever I see a boat advertised that I like it seems to be one of these......any other suggestions welcome?

 

Engine options?

 

If I want to cc on it I am guessing I need to make sure it hasn't been kitted out just for Marina hook up use??? Is that correct?

 

decent size water tank and a portaloo so I could chuck in a composting loo instead without ripping out a poo tank!!

 

Also size of Battery bank/inverter etc. if I wanted to self sustain as a liveaboard?

 

I will be getting a full survey.

 

I know that in an ideal world I would like something a litte rough around the edges but with a very sound hull, engine and electrics, but I guess that's everones pipe dream and a rare find.

 

Also looking at reputable brokers. Have spoken to ABNB and Rugby Boats as I know they are both well respected. i have been warned about a large one in the daventry area, but would seek advice as to any other reputable ones.....Great Haywood?? Braunston??

 

Any advice, suggestions etc?

 

Any words of wisdom to a newbie?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Mike

Edited October 13, 2016 by regthecat

[alan_fincher]

I may be being a bit slow, but I don't recognise R&W as a shell builder's name. Did you perhaps mean R&D ?

If you are considering Mike Heywood, be aware that many of his builds were under the name Evans and Son, so you should include those as well. If you are buying either, seek advice on whether the skin tank is big enough, (but please don't ask me why I say this!).

 

I would have thought there were many other builders worth considering that might come into this kind of price bracket, but I'm not sure if I start naming them quite where the list might go, or how long it might be.

 

For engines, any of the standard ones based on engines from the Far East, (Beta, Isuzu, Nanni, etc), or don't be completely averse to a BMC unit, but avoid things that are not widely used in narrow boats, such as marinised Fords, Peugeots VWS, etc. I think you are looking at a price point that is likely to offer mostly water cooled engines, skin tank cooled, although you may encounter some air cooled Listers. The latter, whilst robust, are more noisy, (though often more "traditional sounding), but you will not be able to heat water with them whilst cruising - a useful feature of a water cooled engine.

As the boat length moves towards your 60 feet figure, it will be harder to achieve a reasonable temperature through the whole boat in winter with just a stove alone, (though many live with such an arrangement - best if stove is not at one extreme end of cabin). Depending on how comfy you like to be, you may consider radiator central heating to be essential. Not all boats you look at will have it.

[Lysander]

< a portaloo so I could chuck in a composting loo instead without ripping out a poo tank! !>

Don't dismiss boats with a pumpout system solely on needing to take out the waste tank. Our poo tank is simply a large plastic container under the bed and I should have thought it would be an easy job to remove it if we were so inclined.

[Joe the plumber]

We bought our boat from 'a large one in the Daventry area' in September 2015 and have nothing but praise for them. Have a hunt, and you'll find more people on here with the same opinion.

 

I'd visit Whilton and make your own mind up rather than going on the opinions of others, most of whom who haven't actually bought a boat there, or in fact even been there recently.

[Neil2]

I wouldn't concern yourself with the hull builder. Unless you want something really classy, in which case you would have to increase your budget, anything in that price range is going to be from a "reputable" builder.

 

More important for a liveaboard are things like spray foam insulation, bow/stern covers, a decent electric spec ie twin alternators, decent battery capacity, proper marine inverter etc.

 

Check the boat details carefully as a lot of brokers just go by what the owner says.

 

If you can, buy late this year rather than early next year, less competition.

 

Some brokers are concerned about happy customers, some just want to shift boats, you can usually tell the difference.

[Tony Brooks]

Also size of Battery bank/inverter etc. if I wanted to self sustain as a liveaboard?

 

I fear that is the wrong way to look at it. Whatever you take out of the batteries you need to put back and then some so you need to first of all calculate how much your life style will take out of the batteries on a daily basis . This is called a power or energy audit. From that you can calculate how many batteries you need (for optimum battery life at last twice the number of amp-hours you take out each day and hopefully a bit more) much you need to put back in each day (say 20 to 30% more than you took out). Once you know that you can decide how that will be achieved but take note that most battery charging devices will only deliver about half their rated out put over the first four hours or so because the batteries start limiting the charging current.

 

What usually happens then is that you revisit your lief style.

 

I could perfectly happily CC with a 12 or 24 volts boat and a small inverter to charge those few items that do not have a 12V supply/charging option but for livaboard use bets make sure its a pure sine wave inverter otherwise electric toothbrushes and the like may burn out - especially expensive ones.

 

It is the charging side of things that most new boaters get horribly wrong and do not come to terms with it until after they have ruined several sets of batteries.

 

 

Edited to add:-

 

I know this makes it a bit of a chicken and egg situation before you have the boat so to minimise any difficulties later and warn you when you are not charging the batteries enough please make sure the boat has, or get fitted, a correctly wired SHUNTED ammeter. If it comes with an all singing thing that shows amps, volts and depth of discharge for goodness sake ignore the depth of discharge and the degree of charge functions. They rather tend to lie. The amps and volts will be fine once you learn how to interpret them.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Tony Brooks

[Bobbin]

Nice to know you are looking for a Mike Haywood. He made my boat and she has a Sabb Model G 10hp engine she is only 30ft So you will need more power than that. Just be aware that some have V hulls and cost more to take out for blacking. Hope you find what you are looking for................OOOOOOOOOOOOh uck I can't think of anything worse than sleeping over a bag of poo! Get a porta potty or a composting loo.

[regthecat]

Thanks for the advice so far. Any more would be appreciated

[Lise77]

Don't dismiss boats with a pumpout system solely on needing to take out the waste tank. Our poo tank is simply a large plastic container under the bed and I should have thought it would be an easy job to remove it if we were so inclined.

We're looking at buying one with the same situation, I'm rather nervous about the under the bed situation, can I just ask, does it get smelly?

[OldGoat]

It shouldn't -

under the bed that is, as it's completely sealed at that end.

The smelly bit (if at all) is in the loo and that can be controlled by using the correct type of 'snake oil... There are so many conversations about what 'additive' to put down the loo - so I won't comment further.

 

FWIW - we once hired a boat with an under bed tank. Ugh, I thought, what a waste of space. Thought no more for the rest of the two week holiday...

[cuthound]

If the holding tank is under the bed, then it is a macerator type of pump out. In my experience these do not smell unless you use bleach or similar to clean the toilet.

 

The other type of pump out is a "dump through", where the toilet bowl sits on top of the holding tank. These do smell, as whenever the toilet is used, it opens the top of the holding tank. Various chemicals (blue, green, odourless, brewers yeast, biological washing powder etc) can be used to control the smell, but they usually only last for 7-14 days.

[Guest]

OOOOOOOOOOOOh uck I can't think of anything worse than sleeping over a bag of poo! Get a porta potty or a composting loo.

Personally I think sleeping in it would be worse, but to each their own.

 

I don't have any problem with the smell, it can occasionally pong a bit when the flap is opened if it is a dump through or similar, bit again it depends what's been put in there, how long it's been there etc. Recently mine hasn't smelt at all when using it, whereas it did a bit for the first couple of weeks after pumping out. Another mystery I've yet to solve.

[Lysander]

We're looking at buying one with the same situation, I'm rather nervous about the under the bed situation, can I just ask, does it get smelly?

We use Odorlos in ours, following the directions to the letter, and putting nothing else but poo, pee and paper down it - no other chemicals. We have no smell at all and it doesn't keep me awake at night!

[Alan de Enfield]

Don't dismiss boats with a pumpout system solely on needing to take out the waste tank. Our poo tank is simply a large plastic container under the bed and I should have thought it would be an easy job to remove it if we were so inclined.

 

That is just one type of tank - many originally were either mild steel or stainless steel and there have been a number of examples of 'leakage' as the welds age / split dumping a load of 'nasty stuff' under your bed.

 

Some pump-out tanks actually use the sides / base plate as part of the tank and are therefore impossible to remove.

 

Plastic tanks are the 'way forward' if you must have a pump-out system, but they do have 'plastic aging' problems as well.

 

Better a leak of 20 litres of a cassette sloshing about in your bathroom rather than 400 + litres sloshing about under your bed.

[Athy]

Personally I think sleeping in it would be worse, but to each their own.

 

 

Hoorah! Quote of the day - have a Greeno.

[magictime]

I don't see why you should expect to settle for something that's "rough around edges" if you're able to spend 40k. I've always had the impression - and I guess it's only really based on online window shopping - that there are plenty of nice, well-maintained, 10-20 year old boats out there at that sort of price.