Are we all sheep?

[Guest]

I can only recall one previous post on here that acquired so many 'up votes' that it acquired one of these.

 

 

Says a lot.

Edited October 13, 2016 by MJG

[Mike Todd]

On a public forum some degree of moderation is essential if only to avoid legal actions. However, it would be very much better if the site could develop better ways of reporting on moderation actions, if only so that a learning process can take place. In some cases, posts have been removed because one person mis-read it and then proceeded to build a case based on that mis-reading.

 

It is always important to remember that discussion and society are at their best when people listen carefully to alternative points of view. That is the way that progress is made.

 

I can see that it would not be beyond the wit of people to devise a way that steers a mid course between the Scylla of bullying and the Charybdis of censorship. One of the worst aspects of society, that often presages a descent in autocracy, is when the government of the day sees fit to have secret courts.

 

Moderation should also give the open opportunity to a poster deemed provisionally to have broken one of the rules either to explain why they have not or to apologise and to withdraw their remark (with suitable recorded editing in extremis)

 

My biggest disappointment in the current situation is that it seems to have removed the opportunity to debate and hear progress on various important cases. Even though some of the protagonists can state their cases forcefully, to have them tested here before, for example, going into court, means that there is a chance that self delusion can be prevented and their cases become that mush better presented. In addition, the issues raised have important general concerns which can only be sensibly debated by reference to specific instances.

 

If the mods think that the worst that can happen is a late night phone call, then I have to say that physical encounters with posters of differing views can be much more intimidating! (LTRU)

 

Equally, folk should always remember to play the ball and not the player. (ie avoid ad hominem arguments which occasionally break out)

 

Let us hope that this thread will lead to some clearer policies that allow civilisation to return - not just anodyne politeness.

[MtB]

 

It's great to see that political comment is now tolerated on the forum again.

 

Little steps and all that.

 

 

And how on earth can we discuss the future of our waterways without talking politics?

 

..............Dave

 

 

 

Political comment relating to the waterways is not banned and never has been.

 

Here is the 'no politics' rule quoted from The Guidelines:

 

"Posting any material, anywhere on the site, that is deemed to have a primarily political theme that is not strictly related to inland waterways and/or boating is prohibited."

[Albion]

What tosh!

This forum worked for years with light touch moderating.

 

For a brief time the forum was invaded by folk with extreme views who weren't interested in discussion, just spouting their rubbish and insulting anyone who begged to differ.

They could have been dealt with individually but, instead, a system was introduced which damaged the forum as a whole.

 

 

Spot on Carl. It was, in the past, possible to debate in a robust fashion on all topics with sensible language but we have lost that option due to the 'one size fits all' approach of banning all topics on certain subjects instead of tackling the individuals that were supposedly causing the problem. A draconian reaction to a small problem that could easily have been tackled with a different approach.

Roger

[Dave_P]

Mods here have stated that explaining why a thread is locked or deleted is viewed as bullying. Sorry but that is absolute tosh!! If there is a need to lock or delete, it is due to a breach of the rules thats all you need to explain. ie which bit of the site t&c have been transgressed. I appreciate that the mods have a thankless task,however that does not place them above constructive criticism, a canal forum where political correctness has gone too far is,in my opinion, doomed to fail.

None of us want that to happen . my particular gripe?? Thread locked with no explanation.. An example a poster i think yesterday posted her reasons for no longer wishing to contribute. The thread was locked without a single reply!! Perhaps there were replies but they had been modereated ot deleted. But without an explanation it appears as a dictatorial and heavy handed approach.

^^^^^This. I would be quite happy to have my indiscretions pointed out. It doesn't have to be in a bullying way though.

[Dave_P]

What tosh!

This forum worked for years with light touch moderating.

 

For a brief time the forum was invaded by folk with extreme views who weren't interested in discussion, just spouting their rubbish and insulting anyone who begged to differ.

They could have been dealt with individually but, instead, a system was introduced which damaged the forum as a whole.

 

 

I can understand why things were tightened up. Things were getting quite nasty and messy and some were on here clearly with the intent of furthering a political agenda and winding people up. They rarely posted about anything else. They've now buggered off to the ForumWhichShallNotBeNamed so I'm not sure that a relaxation of the rules would be a problem now. Then two forum approach is probably sensible. The other place is where people can rant on about immigrants (although I still don't get why a boating forum is the place for that - hey ho!) and this forum can get back to what it was. If a new member comes along who seems intent on dragging contentious politics into everything, then they can be directed to the other forum.

[system 4-50]

I wish that moderators had the power to limit wayward individual members to one post per thread per day.

Many business meetings I had were limited in this way and it concentrated minds and encouraged people to not waste time on character assassination.

[carlt]

The other place is where people can rant on about immigrants (although I still don't get why a boating forum is the place for that - hey ho!) and this forum can get back to what it was.

 

"The other place" doesn't just rant on about immigrants but never mind that.

 

The reason why a boating forum is the perfect place to discuss life the universe and everything is because it contains intelligent folk with a common interest but from all walks of life.

 

Pretty much every subject relating to boats has been discussed here many times over so adding general conversation to the mix keeps the forum vibrant.

 

Boaters don't just talk boats to each other (or the ones that do are best avoided) so why limit a forum to that?

 

It is a discussion forum for boaters and waterways enthusiasts but it shouldn't just be a forum about boats and waterways.

 

Many business meetings I had were limited in this way and it concentrated minds and encouraged people to not waste time on character assassination.

 

I found that any meeting I attended that had this ridiculous rule was unproductive and severely limited peoples' creativity and initiative and I usually walked out of them.

 

I'm not sure what sector you worked in but I never attended a meeting in the scientific and engineering sectors where character assassination occurred (except perhaps to shut the idiot up who tried to implement a limit on contributions).

[gazza]

I wish that moderators had the power to limit wayward individual members to one post per thread per day.

Many business meetings I had were limited in this way and it concentrated minds and encouraged people to not waste time on character assassination.

 

Has it escaped your notice you are not participating in a business meeting when you use this site?

[Guest]

I wish that moderators had the power to limit wayward individual members to one post per thread per day.

Many business meetings I had were limited in this way and it concentrated minds and encouraged people to not waste time on character assassination.

There are more constructive ways to deal with character assassinations in meetings than that. Or rather there was in the (many) meetings I used to attend. Any attempt to do it was generally frowned upon and dealt with in private outside the meeting with the individual concerned........a bit like the forum warn facility really.

[Dave_P]

 

"The other place" doesn't just rant on about immigrants but never mind that.

 

The reason why a boating forum is the perfect place to discuss life the universe and everything is because it contains intelligent folk with a common interest but from all walks of life.

 

Pretty much every subject relating to boats has been discussed here many times over so adding general conversation to the mix keeps the forum vibrant.

 

Boaters don't just talk boats to each other (or the ones that do are best avoided) so why limit a forum to that?

 

It is a discussion forum for boaters and waterways enthusiasts but it shouldn't just be a forum about boats and waterways.

 

I found that any meeting I attended that had this ridiculous rule was unproductive and severely limited peoples' creativity and initiative and I usually walked out of them.

 

I'm not sure what sector you worked in but I never attended a meeting in the scientific and engineering sectors where character assassination occurred (except perhaps to shut the idiot up who tried to implement a limit on contributions).

i don't have a problem with discussing other things. I just find it odd.

[carlt]

i don't have a problem with discussing other things. I just find it odd.

I find it odd that you should only want to discuss boats and waterways with boaters.

 

I visit this site because I like (most) of the people here and wish to chat to them about everything, not just one tiny part of my life.

 

Just because we are drawn together through one common interest doesn't mean we can't share other stuff.

[Arthur Marshall]

I wish I knew what "the forum that must not be named" is....

[system 4-50]

 

Has it escaped your notice you are not participating in a business meeting when you use this site?

No.

Are you implying that any reference to the successful use of a tool in a different context implies that this site has other overtones of that context?

[Higgs]

I wish I knew what "the forum that must not be named" is....

 

 

A clap of something combined with a generic word for a floating vessel.

[gazza]

No.

Are you implying that any reference to the successful use of a tool in a different context implies that this site has other overtones of that context?

No, however, I'm glad I've never sat through a meeting run along the lines you suggest.

 

I will repeat it, this forum is not a business meeting, it will not benefit from the use of a very poor managerial tool either.

[Graham Davis]

I wish I knew what "the forum that must not be named" is....

 

Ditto!

[carlt]

No.

Are you implying that any reference to the successful use of a tool in a different context implies that this site has other overtones of that context?

I'd like to know which sector finds stifling creativity and initiative a "successful tool".

[gazza]

 

 

A clap of something combined with a generic word for a floating vessel.

 

Herpes Boat?

[Arthur Marshall]

I wish I knew what "the forum that must not be named" is....

Thanks to those who told me... I don't think I'll be looking at it much. Bit too singleminded for me. I like the variety on here, even if it does get a bit vituperative at times.

PS is it really banned to name it on here? I can't see why if it is, It seems to be just another forum for those who want to only mix with people who will agree with them.

[Jerra]

One or two points having ploughed my way through the thread.

 

Firstly I have no idea about warning points. Is there somewhere on the site which explains them? Do they last for ever or a limited period? For example if I built up x warning points (enough to get me banned) over 10 years would I be banned or does a wrning point expire after a fixed time (say for example a year).

 

Secondly I said when the ban on politics was brought in it was unnecessary. It was a comparatively few individuals who were causing the problem. To me it was like punishing a whole class because of the behaviour of a few naughty boys, unnecessary and basically wrong. The teacher has a variety of ways of punishing the naughty right up to expulsion. If the mods don't have a similar range then they need to be given a range of "punishments" (sanctions).

 

Thirdly I have difficulty with moderation which doesn't even hint at why deletions/locks are made as it leaves posters,well me at least wondering what has gone wrong and what to avoid in future. The recent thread (I think it was the boater sues CRT one) I read it and all was going fine then next time I come to it - locked and posts deleted. How am I supposed to know what was done which merited this action to be able to avoid doing it in future. A number of people have mentioned being reticent to post as they don't know what is acceptable, I feel this isn't helped by the current "no explanation" moding.

 

I know some find being told by the Mods that "wrists will be smacked" and find it patronising. Personally I prefer that to a post which says words to the effect of " right you are being insulting to one another if it continues I will issue a ban on one person and warning points to good number of others". During many years of handling stroppy teenagers I find being light hearted achieves better results than "the big stick" approach.

[gazza]

One or two points having ploughed my way through the thread.

 

Firstly I have no idea about warning points. Is there somewhere on the site which explains them? Do they last for ever or a limited period? For example if I built up x warning points (enough to get me banned) over 10 years would I be banned or does a wrning point expire after a fixed time (say for example a year).

 

Secondly I said when the ban on politics was brought in it was unnecessary. It was a comparatively few individuals who were causing the problem. To me it was like punishing a whole class because of the behaviour of a few naughty boys, unnecessary and basically wrong. The teacher has a variety of ways of punishing the naughty right up to expulsion. If the mods don't have a similar range then they need to be given a range of "punishments" (sanctions).

 

Thirdly I have difficulty with moderation which doesn't even hint at why deletions/locks are made as it leaves posters,well me at least wondering what has gone wrong and what to avoid in future. The recent thread (I think it was the boater sues CRT one) I read it and all was going fine then next time I come to it - locked and posts deleted. How am I supposed to know what was done which merited this action to be able to avoid doing it in future. A number of people have mentioned being reticent to post as they don't know what is acceptable, I feel this isn't helped by the current "no explanation" moding.

 

I know some find being told by the Mods that "wrists will be smacked" and find it patronising. Personally I prefer that to a post which says words to the effect of " right you are being insulting to one another if it continues I will issue a ban on one person and warning points to good number of others". During many years of handling stroppy teenagers I find being light hearted achieves better results than "the big stick" approach.

 

You (and the mods) are not dealing with a classroom nor stroppy teenagers.

 

The biggest annoyance is this fascination with treating member like school kids - it never used to happen and should stop.

[Alan de Enfield]

One or two points having ploughed my way through the thread.

 

Firstly I have no idea about warning points. Is there somewhere on the site which explains them? Do they last for ever or a limited period? For example if I built up x warning points (enough to get me banned) over 10 years would I be banned or does a wrning point expire after a fixed time (say for example a year).

 

Secondly I said when the ban on politics was brought in it was unnecessary. It was a comparatively few individuals who were causing the problem. To me it was like punishing a whole class because of the behaviour of a few naughty boys, unnecessary and basically wrong. The teacher has a variety of ways of punishing the naughty right up to expulsion. If the mods don't have a similar range then they need to be given a range of "punishments" (sanctions).

 

Thirdly I have difficulty with moderation which doesn't even hint at why deletions/locks are made as it leaves posters,well me at least wondering what has gone wrong and what to avoid in future. The recent thread (I think it was the boater sues CRT one) I read it and all was going fine then next time I come to it - locked and posts deleted. How am I supposed to know what was done which merited this action to be able to avoid doing it in future. A number of people have mentioned being reticent to post as they don't know what is acceptable, I feel this isn't helped by the current "no explanation" moding.

 

I know some find being told by the Mods that "wrists will be smacked" and find it patronising. Personally I prefer that to a post which says words to the effect of " right you are being insulting to one another if it continues I will issue a ban on one person and warning points to good number of others". During many years of handling

stroppy teenagers I find being light hearted achieves better results than "the big stick" approach.

 

I may be putting 'words into some members mouths' but I believe that there is a feeling that in fact it is the 'stroppy teenagers' that have now got the 'big stick and are punishing the 'adults'

[cuthound]

If we are to be treated like schoolchildren, then we should have a Prefect.

 

Who should we nominate?

 

Or should we ask for Volunteers?

[Higgs]

Thanks to those who told me... I don't think I'll be looking at it much. Bit too singleminded for me. I like the variety on here, even if it does get a bit vituperative at times.

PS is it really banned to name it on here? I can't see why if it is, It seems to be just another forum for those who want to only mix with people who will agree with them.

 

 

I can't agree with you. It may not have reached the level of this forum, in terms of information resources and membership, but you can use words more spontaneously. Spontaneity is a form of honesty. Here, there is a the problem of having to choose other people's way of expression that is not altogether real. It's like breathing with a corset on......, I imagine.