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Are we all sheep?


matty40s

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^^^^^This. I would be quite happy to have my indiscretions pointed out. It doesn't have to be in a bullying way though.

I would look forward to have my indiscretions brought to the public eye,they earned me 2 warning points and it might prevent somebody using humour as I did from getting warning points.

Phil

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I know some find being told by the Mods that "wrists will be smacked" and find it patronising. Personally I prefer that to a post which says words to the effect of " right you are being insulting to one another if it continues I will issue a ban on one person and warning points to good number of others". During many years of handling stroppy teenagers I find being light hearted achieves better results than "the big stick" approach.

 

Personally a simple - "Can I please remind thread participants of the forum rules and guidelines" (or similar) would be infinitely better than adopting a rather 'talking down approach'. That is not 'big stick' and gets the point across. If that doesn't work, delete subsequent offending posts and individually warn the member(s) in question.

 

It's not rocket science.

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^^^^^This. I would be quite happy to have my indiscretions pointed out. It doesn't have to be in a bullying way though.

I would look forward to have my indiscretions brought to the public eye,they earned me 2 warning points and it might prevent somebody using humour as I did from getting warning points.

Phil

I can understand why things were tightened up. Things were getting quite nasty and messy and some were on here clearly with the intent of furthering a political agenda and winding people up. They rarely posted about anything else. They've now buggered off to the ForumWhichShallNotBeNamed so I'm not sure that a relaxation of the rules would be a problem now. Then two forum approach is probably sensible. The other place is where people can rant on about immigrants (although I still don't get why a boating forum is the place for that - hey ho!) and this forum can get back to what it was. If a new member comes along who seems intent on dragging contentious politics into everything, then they can be directed to the other forum.

Rubbish, members of the other place do NOT spend their time ranting about immigration and I know for fact that many of the banned posted about many subjects and in fact never on immigration, the reasons for their being culled are often quite petty.

Phil

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I hate cryptic clues huh.png

That wasnt a cryptic clue, it was a quick clue. The Star and Sun are good to cut your teeth on crossword solving, maybe early days for the Times Crossword?

 

2 across 7,4 clue as previous.

Edited by gazza
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That wasnt a cryptic clue, it was a quick clue. The Star and Sun are good to cut your teeth on crossword solving, maybe early days for the Times Crossword?

 

2 across 7,4 clue as previous.

Perhaps I should have waited thirty seconds and saved myself the trouble of posting. I never got sudoku either.. the big book of colouring can be taxing at times...biggrin.pngtongue.png

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That wasnt a cryptic clue, it was a quick clue. The Star and Sun are good to cut your teeth on crossword solving, maybe early days for the Times Crossword?

 

2 across 7,4 clue as previous.

How about:

Antidote to canal world? Whoopee we hear the German craft(11).

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To those who object to my mention of stroppy yeenagers. You would see (I hope) I said I had experience of stroppy teenagers I did not say the forum had any.

 

However my thinking was this. Teenagers believe it or not a humans being difficult because of the stage of life they are going through.

 

Forumites are human beings and some are at times being difficult I find that techniques learned on one sort of human being often help when dealing with similar human beings.

To me part of the problem with the moderation of the forum is too manly members are currently too sensitive objecting to anything that they see as patronising,treating them as below the station in life they feel they hold etc. No Mod is ever going to get things right for everybody so just don't take things so much to heart, get the general message being given no matter what style. The you can think either that's OK it doesn't apply to my posts or Whoops perhaps need to modify X Y or Z

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To those who object to my mention of stroppy yeenagers. You would see (I hope) I said I had experience of stroppy teenagers I did not say the forum had any.

 

However my thinking was this. Teenagers believe it or not a humans being difficult because of the stage of life they are going through.

 

Forumites are human beings and some are at times being difficult I find that techniques learned on one sort of human being often help when dealing with similar human beings.

To me part of the problem with the moderation of the forum is too manly members are currently too sensitive objecting to anything that they see as patronising,treating them as below the station in life they feel they hold etc. No Mod is ever going to get things right for everybody so just don't take things so much to heart, get the general message being given no matter what style. The you can think either that's OK it doesn't apply to my posts or Whoops perhaps need to modify X Y or Z

I'd quit digging and put your spade back in the shed....

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Nick,

Completely agree with that first paragraph but I think the notion that this is a virtual place that doesn't harm people is fundamentally incorrect. Putting aside that there are vulnerable people in society who really can be significantly affected by what they experience online, I believe that same attitude when displayed at low level within posts is the catalyst for discussion to become uncivilised.

Our words are real and we put them in the public domain in the knowledge they can be read by absolutely anyone and presumably with the intention that they will be. They absolutely do have an effect on the reader - intended or otherwise - such that you cannot then claim that they are virtual and no-one gets hurt. I have far more issues with posts that start with phrases such as "That's nonsense", "Utter rubbish" or "You're talking carp" than I do with a bit of colourful language. The emotional effect such terms have on the recipient is very real; and I mean that simply in the context that the emotions generated by the style of prompt will determine the style of response. As you know it can only ever be the style of posting rather than the subject matter itself that causes a degradation in relations.

Yesterday instead of letting a trivial rant referencing the government (which apparently qualifies as political comment) go over your head you decided not just to bite in a none too friendly tone that suggested you had a pre-formed opinion of the poster, but in a seemingly contradictory move you also tried to find out some background on the poster. That's not the behaviour of a man who is committed to improving the breadth and quality of discussion on this forum. It's the behaviour of someone who is putting their differences with the poster ahead of addressing the content that was posted. That's an activity often seen on here which has no place if we are to achieve what you, I and many others want to see.

Not everyone on here has the wherewithal to raise the level. You do Nick. Use it wisely if you really want this place to be a better place for discussion and information rather than a bit of online sparring.

Jon

Jon

 

Firstly I should explain that I'm well aware of the perils of online bullying etc, it can be horrendous especially for young people lacking self confidence. So my point about it "just being a virtual world" needs more explanation. If someone on here feels they are being bullied or upset then they should of course contact the mods who should sort it out. However if 2 robust people want have a bit of robust discussion, I don't think bystanders are likely to be damaged and ultimately if they don't like it, they should read something else. That said I am also against pointless tit for tat arguing that goes on and on, especially when it becomes personal, simply because it is boring and distracting for everyone else. My point was more about the urgency of it all - we hear the mods bemoan that it was half past midnight and they had 1 bar of signal on their phone whilst waiting at a rainy bus stop, having to deal with a crisis. When the reality is that such things don't have to be dealt with on a minute by minute lifesaving basis. It can wait until morning / a more convenient time and no-one is going to die - allowing more time for rational thought as opposed to knee jerk.

 

I totally agree with you about posts starting (or containing) "that's utter nonsense" etc but unfortunately that is one area that seems to be allowed, it happens quite often. If you can't think of a cogent argument to make your point, better not to post at all!

 

Finally I'm not clear about your specific reference to my behaviour, I can't recall any reactions to threads about government - are you sure it was me, and if so please give me more of a clue! I reacted to a post from PB suggesting that it might be a bit hypocritical, I got back one of those "you are an idiot" posts which remains standing despite me reporting it as a personal attack. I then did try to find out more about the poster, but that was because I was wondering if I had got it wrong and it was a case of mistaken identity - surely nothing too sinister in that?

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I'm not sure what rules have changed since quitting the team of mods but when i was on the team we / i was told to always message the poster if a post needed editing or removing, if the post was edited you had to explain the reason you felt the need to edit it, If the post/thread was deleted the same rule applied, So what has changed since then? Are the current mod's so busy that they don't have time to explain their actions or is it just laziness/easier not to message members. As has been said earlier in the thread "if members don't know why things have been removed/edited how are we supposed to know it was wrong" i think the mod team should be more open about what they are doing to posts/threads, No i don't believe they should name and shame because that's just intimidation for the poster but i do think they should be more open about their actions.

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I totally agree with you about posts starting (or containing) "that's utter nonsense" etc but unfortunately that is one area that seems to be allowed, it happens quite often. If you can't think of a cogent argument to make your point, better not to post at all!

 

I don't see the problem as long as it is followed up with an explanation as to why that opinion is held.

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I get the impression that the people who are being modded are being told why by the mods (I certainly was), but the general public are grumbling that they don't know why. But I still think that if you had read the relevant threads (the two concerning CRT's actions re section 8 and the Liverpool ship) it's fairly easy to see why they were becoming contentious, and the confrontational language that tends to be used by some contributors to anyone who has a good word to say about CRT or questions their position can be a problem to those of us of a nervous disposition.

Looking briefly at the other site, I can see that it has collected a large number of those who used to be the most aggressive on here (but who I had noticed had vanished) and while I admit I don't miss the aggression with which it was often accompanied (and apparently still is), I do miss their knowledge and concern for the system. I have no idea if they've been banned or have just buggered of to be with more congenial company. I presume that anyone who agrees to abide by the terms and conditions (another contention phrase) of the site can rejoin. In the meantime, all the information is still floating around on the net if one can be bothered to go looking for it. And, personally, i think this site is still a much more amicable and informative place than any other.

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I don't see the problem as long as it is followed up with an explanation as to why that opinion is held.

That's utter nonsense.

There is no need for the former bit "that's utter nonsense" - it doesn't add to the discussion it merely tries to dis the opponent without any rationale and invites tit for tat bickering. Some people have a different way of looking at things, get over it! There is only need for the second part where the counter argument is put forward. If the counter argument is strong, that is end of argument.

Edited by nicknorman
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Why is it that people are complaining they dont like the contentious threads or posts and think they shouldnt be allowed yet you all read them.You only have to have a bit of a ruck going on within a post and the amount of people who view it goes sky high.Seems that people want a forum that is pleasant and without any kind of humour or arguing yet they like to sit back and read it then come on another post complaining about it ...Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

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I get the impression that the people who are being modded are being told why by the mods (I certainly was), but the general public are grumbling that they don't know why. But I still think that if you had read the relevant threads (the two concerning CRT's actions re section 8 and the Liverpool ship) it's fairly easy to see why they were becoming contentious, and the confrontational language that tends to be used by some contributors to anyone who has a good word to say about CRT or questions their position can be a problem to those of us of a nervous disposition.

Looking briefly at the other site, I can see that it has collected a large number of those who used to be the most aggressive on here (but who I had noticed had vanished) and while I admit I don't miss the aggression with which it was often accompanied (and apparently still is), I do miss their knowledge and concern for the system. I have no idea if they've been banned or have just buggered of to be with more congenial company. I presume that anyone who agrees to abide by the terms and conditions (another contention phrase) of the site can rejoin. In the meantime, all the information is still floating around on the net if one can be bothered to go looking for it. And, personally, i think this site is still a much more amicable and informative place than any other.

I suppose it depends on whether you like to be surrounded by people who agree with you, or whether you like the challenge of being surrounded by people who disagree with you. Or perhaps, a bit of each is best!

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There is no need for the former bit "that's utter nonsense" - it doesn't add to the discussion it merely tries to dis the opponent without any rationale. Some people have a different way of looking at things, get over it! There is only need for the second part where the counter argument is put forward. If the counter argument is strong, that is end of argument.

There's no need to contribute to an internet forum at all.

 

If we just kept to facts and figures and didn't include any emotion or opinion then it ends up being totally and utterly boring.

 

I am aware that other people have a different way of looking at things and have no problem with them telling me that my way is utter nonsense, if they can back it up (as you have frequently done in the past).

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There's no need to contribute to an internet forum at all.

 

If we just kept to facts and figures and didn't include any emotion or opinion then it ends up being totally and utterly boring.

 

I am aware that other people have a different way of looking at things and have no problem with them telling me that my way is utter nonsense, if they can back it up (as you have frequently done in the past).

No I didn't say there was no place for passion or emotion (quite the opposite). But saying something is "utter nonsense" usually happens when the person dislikes the other viewpoint but can't think of a good counter argument either because they are too lazy or too stupid. A good debate contains passion, emotion and opinion without resorting to personal abuse.

 

I would like to think that I have never said "utter nonsense" to you (apart from just now which was a JOKE - remember them?) but if I did it was wrong and I had clearly slipped into bad practice by being surrounded by it.

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No I didn't say there was no place for passion or emotion (quite the opposite). But saying something is "utter nonsense" usually happens when the person dislikes the other viewpoint but can't think of a good counter argument either because they are too lazy or too stupid. A good debate contains passion, emotion and opinion without resorting to personal abuse.

 

"Utter nonsense" is not personal abuse as it comments on what is said, not who said it and, as I said, there is nothing wrong with holding that opinion if you can back it up with a good counter argument.

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I think it's about time the Mod's took a step back and let the "report" feature do the work for them, this will cut down on the amount of work they have (if any) and also show them what the member's actually want from this site.

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