POWERMASTER, has anyone heard of these?

[christophert]

Hi all, I've had a Powermaster inverter on my boat for the last eight years and has performed well. The problem is I don't know the output. I contacted the company, sending pictures. I had two replies from different departments there. One said it probably could be a 1200 w and the other said it possibly could be an 1800. It seems to run everything, TV, Microwave etc but not the washing machine, but the washing machine is a Zanussi, one of those small ones which for some reason cost twice the price of a normal size one. I also have an 1100cc Beta Marine generator and that wont run the washing machine either.

 

[Phil Ambrose]

I suspect your washing machine needs pure sine wave and your inverter and Genny connot provide it, only producing quasi sine wave, cam you tell us if this is the case?

It seems that today most mains powered kit does require pure sine wave power and misbehave if they don't get it.

I may be wrong (often am)

Phil

[Flyboy]

I have a PM 3000L & it's been 100% reliable for the last 9 years. There should be a label around the terminal area. If you remove the casing lid you might find the ID on the circuit board. The lid will come off if you remove the screws down the side after making sure it is isolated. The UK agent seems to have closed down.

[mross]

Make sure you isolate it from the batteries and perhaps turn off shore power before opening the case.

[mross]

Is it one of these? I see from photo that it IS pure sine wave.

 

http://www.powermaster.com.tw/dc-ac-power-inverter.htm

[rusty69]

I have an older version, not pure sinewave, think it is 1800 W. Older than 10 years. I have the manual somewhere, but not sure that will help you

Edited October 9, 2016 by rusty69

[Rickent]

I believe zanussi have something called grid detection and are very fussy when ran off genny or inverter.

[Larkboy]

Read this thread and looked at their site and found my 2005 Sterling 3000w pure sine wave inverter is a re-badged powermaster. I have to say it's always done what it said on the tin, and the auto-crossover switch is very fast.

[Arthur Brown]

Just assume that the washing machine is the fussiest item that you have aboard with regards to power input, Many washers simply don't run off anything but real mains -even if the rated power is said to be adequate.

[mross]

Is it possible that the inverter is set to 60Hz by mistake? Lighting and kettles would work but washing machines are fussy. I looked at a random Zanussi model and it said 50Hz, not 50/60Hz.

Edited October 9, 2016 by mross

[cuthound]

If the inverer is being slightly overloaded by the washing machine, the waveform may be clipping slightly. The washing machine will object to this if it needs a pure sine wave.

[Arthur Brown]

Washing machines dislike everything but good hard mains.

 

If a generator slows and the volts sag when the heater comes on - they don't like it

If the sine wave isn't clean enough from genset or inverter -they don't like it

If the earth referenced neutral isn't there some don't work well -they dump interference down the earth wire.

 

This forum could compile a list of washing machines that do work from on board power, but as inverters go off market and washers do would it have long validity.

[Gordon Munk]

try it with an old fashioned light bulb on at the same time

[dor]

I have one exactly like in the photo which I installed in 2007. It is an 1800W PSW and runs anything. Good inverter but sorry I can't say which yours is.

[bag 'o' bones]

Hi all, I've had a Powermaster inverter on my boat for the last eight years and has performed well. The problem is I don't know the output. I contacted the company, sending pictures. I had two replies from different departments there. One said it probably could be a 1200 w and the other said it possibly could be an 1800. It seems to run everything, TV, Microwave etc but not the washing machine, but the washing machine is a Zanussi, one of those small ones which for some reason cost twice the price of a normal size one. I also have an 1100cc Beta Marine generator and that wont run the washing machine either. 053.jpg

Exactly the same as the one on our boat.

 

Ours is 1200 watt.

 

I think the 1800 watt version has a longer case.

[mross]

Here's a manual for a NauticCharger PM-3000L which appears to be identical. https://www.manualslib.com/products/Nauticcharger-Pm-3000l-3151097.html

 

This covers models 350W to 3000W. Looks good!

[christophert]

Hi all,

The inverter is pretty tight to the wall and one side can't be seen. Today I stuck my phone down this side and randomly took pictures in the hope I'd find some info. And found this! I'm really pleased. Now just need to find out why my leisure batteries arn't holding their charge. I have had them deep charge tested and apparently they're fine.

 

[stratford4528]

I use to sell Powermaster inverters. Your washing machine has possibly got a 2500 watt heater. Most of the Powermasters like yours are full sign wave. The Taiwan company who made them did not support the agents who sold them. That is why you don't find them for sale. If you look closely there will be a label telling you the power. I now sell Samlex inverters which all come with 2 years warranty. They are expensive but very reliable. Of all the Samlex I have sold only one has came back

[WotEver]

Now just need to find out why my leisure batteries arn't holding their charge. I have had them deep charge tested and apparently they're fine.

If they were fine then they'd hold their charge. Therefore we have one of two scenarios:

 

1. They're not fine.

2. You're not charging them properly.

 

So, questions:

 

1. What do you use to charge them?

2. What do you use to monitor them?

3. How do you determine that they're fully charged?

 

Tony

[christophert]

Not necessarily, they are charging fine. The alternator is pumping plenty in when engine is running, and battery charger is doing its job too. The charger is a Waeco 1512, and how I monitor the batteries is by inverter letting me know there's not enough in them. I have recently on a few occasions put a meter to them once I've had the engine running, and they have shown to be fully charged. But after four or five hours, the inverter goes off as not enough power. If I don't restart the engine or plug into shoreline, the batteries will drain to the point that not even the twelve volt lights will work after several hours.

 

Basically, where I could before take out the boat and have power on charged batteries for at least two days, not using anything of heavy consumption, now I can only do it for a few hours before batteries drain dead.

The batteries are two years old, they have been tested. I'm wondering if there is a bad earth or dodgy wire creating this problem? Or - could it be the batteries? It's just strange, they charge really well, but the power is seeping off somewhere.

Here's a manual for a NauticCharger PM-3000L which appears to be identical. https://www.manualslib.com/products/Nauticcharger-Pm-3000l-3151097.html

 

This covers models 350W to 3000W. Looks good!

Thank you for that, it's most useful.

Exactly the same as the one on our boat.

 

Ours is 1200 watt.

 

I think the 1800 watt version has a longer case.

How are you finding yours? I've had this one a good while and it's proved to be a good one.

[WotEver]

Without any doubt, judging from the above post you are seriously under charging the batteries. Assuming you have been doing so for a while they are probably now irrecoverably damaged - it doesn't have to take long.

 

For instance "I put a meter on them when the engine was running" shows you nothing other than the alternator is working. It tells you absolutely nothing about the state of charge of the batteries.

[bag 'o' bones]

Not necessarily, they are charging fine. The alternator is pumping plenty in when engine is running, and battery charger is doing its job too. The charger is a Waeco 1512, and how I monitor the batteries is by inverter letting me know there's not enough in them. I have recently on a few occasions put a meter to them once I've had the engine running, and they have shown to be fully charged. But after four or five hours, the inverter goes off as not enough power. If I don't restart the engine or plug into shoreline, the batteries will drain to the point that not even the twelve volt lights will work after several hours.

 

Basically, where I could before take out the boat and have power on charged batteries for at least two days, not using anything of heavy consumption, now I can only do it for a few hours before batteries drain dead.

The batteries are two years old, they have been tested. I'm wondering if there is a bad earth or dodgy wire creating this problem? Or - could it be the batteries? It's just strange, they charge really well, but the power is seeping off somewhere.

Thank you for that, it's most useful.

How are you finding yours? I've had this one a good while and it's proved to be a good one.

Well its never gone wrong so spot on I suppose. Seem to recall it was one of the middle range quality models on offer at the time, not quite a victron but miles better than a unbranded Chinese jobbie.

Of course inverter problems can be attributed just as much to poor installation as well as a fault with the actual box.

Edited October 10, 2016 by bag 'o' bones

[christophert]

Without any doubt, judging from the above post you are seriously under charging the batteries. Assuming you have been doing so for a while they are probably now irrecoverably damaged - it doesn't have to take long.

 

For instance "I put a meter on them when the engine was running" shows you nothing other than the alternator is working. It tells you absolutely nothing about the state of charge of the batteries.

What I don't understand is - the batteries are showing fully charged according to my meter - and another meter I have just bought, are showing 13.6. So if I am not mistaken the batteries are fully charging through the battery charger. I hate electrics, it's not my strong point at all.

[Alan de Enfield]

Your batteries have 2 components to consider :

 

1) SOC (State of Charge)

2) Capacity (stated in Ah)

 

You can have a fully charged 12v battery (showing 12.9v) irrespective of its capacity - so you can get a small 22Ah battery that is fully charged at 12.9V, or you can get a 230Ah battery that is fully charged at 12.9v.

 

When a battery is 'new' it has a certain capacity - lets take the 'normal boat battery' of 110Ah

Every cycle that the battery makes (charge and discharge) reduces the capacity, but, the big 'battery destroyer' is taking the battery down too low (your Inverter probably starts to squeal at 10.5/11v) and then not charging it back to 'full' again - which may take 8-12 hours. Undercharging means that your battery can be sulphated and it is possible to destroy a battery in a matter of weeks.

 

Your current batteries may have a capacity less than 50% of their original and therefore will charge up, but will not 'hold much'. and will go flat quickly.

 

I recently saw a comparison which may be useful, :

You have a 10 litre bucket, you can fill it and it will hold 10 litres.

Fill it half full with 'mud' (equivalent to 'bits of lead' that the battery plates have shed), you can still fill the bucket, but now it only holds 5 litres.

 

I would suggest that you need to start to understand 12v electrics, battery charging, and recharging requirements BEFORE you buy any more batteries (which, with your current regime you will kill "tout-suite")

Edited October 10, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[WotEver]

To expand on Alan's post and picking up on your points, 13.6V is not 'fully charged' it is in fact what is known as the 'surface charge' voltage which can be seen immediately after charging. Think of it as the voltage sitting on the surface of the plates within the battery (that's not what it is but it suffices for an explanation). After a period of several hours of resting that voltage will have had a chance to permeate through the plates and stabilise and only at that time can you read the voltage to determine the true state of charge. 12.7V on a rested battery is fully charged. 12.2V (50% ish) is as low as you should ever take ordinary leisure batteries if you want a long life from them.

 

Obviously, sitting around for hours waiting for the battery voltage to stabilise isn't very convenient. Fortunately there are other methods.

 

The very best way to determine the SoC is to measure the specific gravity (specific density) of the electrolyte using a hydrometer. This however is messy, somewhat dangerous, and can only be done with open wet cell batteries.

 

Another (far more convenient) method of determining when the batteries are fully charged is to look at the charging current on an ammeter. When the current drops to around 1% or 2% of the battery capacity (so 3.3-6.6A for a 330Ah bank) OR when the current hasn't dropped for about an hour then the batteries are fully charged.

 

A SmartGauge can be very useful for the non-technical to monitor their battery usage.

 

Hope that helps,

Tony