Water Cans and Handbowls

[Laurence Hogg]

Is there any age to this can? Doesn't look anything special.

 

This can was I believe painted by my ex wife Gill Hogg in around 1978-80. From 1972 onwards she has painted for the giftware industry and private commissions. At times she imitated different painters styles one who was Frank Jones. Look carefully and you can clearly see the paints on the roses are without question from the Humbrol range. I have some pieces left which have this style of rose on them. Gill painted mainly "Knobstick" based designs but also a "Braunston" style based on Nursers and occasionly Jones.

Her painting operation was called "Traditional Artmetalware Company" and was a major supplier to inland waterway related shops and sites but also an avid exporter of smaller items to countries including South Africa, Israel, the US and many others, she supplied gifts to Gallaghers who had the coupon scheme for gifts in their ciggarette packs. Over the years she produced in excess of approx 30,000 items, without doubt more painted gifts than any other painter alive or dead has produced. Her speed of painting was legendary and even Ron Hough was impressed enough to say "you could have worked in our yard". She painted all the roses in "Barnet's" cabin when I was restoring it in just three hours start to finish!

 

Today she still paints for a few wholesale buyers and still does over 2000 horseshoes a year which many of you will have seen in the shops.

 

Edited to add, the can is very likely a Bockock or W T George type, both these firms were still functioning at the time as well as Joseph Ash.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Laurence Hogg

[BWM]

Thanks for the info Lawrence, I must add that my question could have been phrased better and didn't wish to suggest that the can is in any way inferior, but only that it didn't look to be from the era of carrying (pre 1967 for instance), and was struggling to reconcile the extraordinary price!

As an aside, did Bocock make forged windlasses? I have an old one that is stamped with either Bocock or possibly Pocock.

Edited February 13, 2017 by BWM

[Laurence Hogg]

Thanks for the info Lawrence, I must add that my question could have been phrased better and didn't wish to suggest that the can is in any way inferior, but only that it didn't look to be from the era of carrying (pre 1967 for instance), and was struggling to reconcile the extraordinary price!

As an aside, did Bocock make forged windlasses? I have an old one that is stamped with either Bocock or possibly Pocock.

 

Bococks were hollowware manufacturers but did specialize in marine lights, they were the last people to make the plain lense mastheads so prized today. I am not aware of a forging side but they may have sourced from a third party as there marine range was extensive. As for the can Gill positively recognised it and I have written to the vendor, whether he chabges it we will wait to see.

[pete harrison]

This Can has just sold on Ebay for £147.87, and no I did not buy it (but I did try)

 

[alan_fincher]

This Can has just sold on Ebay for £147.87, and no I did not buy it (but I did try)

 

 

Perhaps we should have a pact to not bid against each other Pete!

 

I quite badly wanted this one, but despite the way the market has gone, am loathe to go over £150, which it clearly would have taken.

 

I don't think it is necessarily 1960s as billed, my guess is it was a piece produced for the tourist market probably a bit later, (early 1970s).

 

My interest was I am 90% certain who the painter was in this case, as it is quite distinctive. Not one of the tradesmen painters, but a real ex working boatman who painted stuff for sale. I believe it is the work of Joe Harrison, who's stuff was sold in (at least) the small gift shop at Stoke Bruerne in the early 1970s.

 

Anyone want to confess to securing it? I don't think it is a bad buy, if current prices hold, but I'd be scared to leave it on the cabin top without chaining it on, if I paid more than £150 for it.

 

I'm not holding out much hope of anything better/cheaper for a while.

[pete harrison]

Perhaps we should have a pact to not bid against each other Pete!

I quite badly wanted this one, but despite the way the market has gone, am loathe to go over £150, which it clearly would have taken.

 

I don't think it is necessarily 1960s as billed, my guess is it was a piece produced for the tourist market probably a bit later, (early 1970s).

I was quite keen on it as well, which is why I had not bought it to the attention of this thread until now.

 

My bid went in at exactly the sale time as the winner, so I missed out by £2.00 - unless an automatic bid was in place.

 

My interest was the Can rather than the paint, although it looked quite presentable and I would not have it repainted. My biggest concern was picking it up from Uxbridge as it was personal collection only

[mark99]

I was quite keen on it as well, which is why I had not bought it to the attention of this thread until now.

 

My bid went in at exactly the sale time as the winner, so I missed out by £2.00 - unless an automatic bid was in place.

 

My interest was the Can rather than the paint, although it looked quite presentable and I would not have it repainted. My biggest concern was picking it up from Uxbridge as it was personal collection only

We would have sorted it for you.

[pete harrison]

We would have sorted it for you.

Thank you, I will bare this in mind

[jeannette smith harrison]

Never even seen this one & at Uxbridge just down the road from me

The painting is very much like Uncle Joe's except for the fact there are no daisys a thing he always liked to add into his painting .

The only time he would not have added daisys in is if he was asked not to . So could still be one of his

Joe painted 2x cans many years ago for a boat one of his daughters had I believe she still has these,

also a son in law has a boat with I think one of Joe's cans he used to post on here so with luck he may add some info .

the picture is his old watering can that sprung a leak & he painted for me just before he went to visit the great cut in the sky.

A great man who along with David Bladgrove inspired me to keep my canal family's research going

[alan_fincher]

My interest was the Can rather than the paint, although it looked quite presentable and I would not have it repainted. My biggest concern was picking it up from Uxbridge as it was personal collection only

 

I was hoping that might work in my favour!

[Paul H]

My guess is the painter is Penny Burdett who used to live on NB Fern at Cowley nr. Uxbridge in the late 70s

[alan_fincher]

My guess is the painter is Penny Burdett who used to live on NB Fern at Cowley nr. Uxbridge in the late 70s

 

Interesting.

 

We have a very basic flower pot known to have been painted for the tourist market by Joe Harrison in the early 1970s, where the style is so similar to that can I convinced myself it was probably his.

 

But that's not to say others did not paint in near identical style.

 

It is obvious that painters changed over time, and this is emphasised by the watering can that Jeannette has shown, which I think doesn't look a lot like Joe Harrison's output for the tourist trade in the 1970s.

 

Whoever painted it, I like that eBay can, but don't wish to keep fuelling the thing where they sell for £200, £300, or even more.

[Derek R.]

Comparing Joe Harrison's 'hand' to the 'Uxbridge' can, I think there are sufficient differences to say it might not be Joe's work. There are inconsistencies in the Uxbridge can's number of small petals; the sweep of the brush on the larger petals; and as Jeannette points out - no daisies. I don't have any experience of Joe's other work, nor do I know the Uxbridge can's artist, but having drawn most of my lifetime, there are traits that develop and stick, which become signatures in themselves.

 

As economies have a habit of changing, there may well be a time in the not so distant future when "collectables" will once again be seen in the loft; junk shop, tip, or scrap-yard. A gloomy thought for the day. (You heard it here first!).

[alan_fincher]

Derek,

 

If you are comparing the can just sold on eBay to the watering can picture posted by Jeanette, then I agree - I would not immediately attribute to same artist.

But equally I now have various things all credited to Ron Hough, but painted at very different times, and you have to look hard to appreciate that the painter of all items is the same - they all have big variations in technique.

 

If the comparison you are making is not as I am interpreted, please explain. but I think only 2 pictures have been posted.

I wonder if Paul is able to post an example of Penny Burdett's work from the late 70s. It might change my mind!

[Tuscan]

 

I bought this can, and a matching dipper plus two full size brass windlasses for £50 off eBay some 7 years ago. I understood from the shop that they came from an old boater in Rickmansworth. They are quite weathered now. We have been debating whether we should have them repainted but can't decide whether they are better aged.

 

[pete harrison]

This Masthead Light has just sold on Ebay at £245, from the same seller as the Water Can sold yesterday

 

[David Schweizer]

Derek,

 

If you are comparing the can just sold on eBay to the watering can picture posted by Jeanette, then I agree - I would not immediately attribute to same artist.

 

But equally I now have various things all credited to Ron Hough, but painted at very different times, and you have to look hard to appreciate that the painter of all items is the same - they all have big variations in technique.

 

If the comparison you are making is not as I am interpreted, please explain. but I think only 2 pictures have been posted.

 

I wonder if Paul is able to post an example of Penny Burdett's work from the late 70s. It might change my mind!

 

As do I, but apart from his very early work which shows more of Frank Nurser's influence, his basic style has not varied significantly over the years, it has developed over the yeard, but is still easily recognizeable.

[Derek R.]

Derek,

(snipped)

But equally I now have various things all credited to Ron Hough, but painted at very different times, and you have to look hard to appreciate that the painter of all items is the same - they all have big variations in technique.

 

If the comparison you are making is not as I am interpreted, please explain. but I think only 2 pictures have been posted.

(snipped)

 

A variation in technique - or one developed from a need for speed?

I know my own signature is very different to that I wrote when a teenager, but changed due to a need to sign off many book entries in accounting. But the shaping and the number of petals given to a flower would basically remain the same, just done quicker. But then, I have none of any one artists work over a long period of time to compare it with. It just looks different. An accomplished artist of roses and castles would (I think) keep to a set number of petals; windows; towers; boats on a lake etc. A more contemporary artist supplying the tourist trade is more likely to change or adapt to a space given.

 

Or I could be talking total tosh.

[Derek R.]

I bought this can, and a matching dipper plus two full size brass windlasses for £50 off eBay some 7 years ago. I understood from the shop that they came from an old boater in Rickmansworth. They are quite weathered now. We have been debating whether we should have them repainted but can't decide whether they are better aged.

 

 

They look to be different hands, but please get in touch with Dave Moore, Phil Speight, or Tony Lewery, they may give more information. But for now, please do not have them repainted. They are of historic interest just as they are. Repainted, they become just another two items freshly painted. Original (probably) style and example lost forever.

[alan_fincher]

Firstly I'm no expert, but.....

These following two small tourist produced items are known to have been painted by Joe Harrison in the 1970s.

Clearly Jeannette's can is painted by the same Joe Harrison.

 

To my untrained eye, I would not immediately have said "same painter", but we know they are.

Perhaps an expert can identify what makes them appear to be by the same painter, despite what I consider quite a different look.

 

I think these two items share a lot of similarity with the can sold in Uxbridge on eBay last night, but I'm probably wrong.

 

 

[Tuscan]

They look to be different hands, but please get in touch with Dave Moore, Phil Speight, or Tony Lewery, they may give more information. But for now, please do not have them repainted. They are of historic interest just as they are. Repainted, they become just another two items freshly painted. Original (probably) style and example lost forever.

That's what we decided, I showed them to Dave Moore ( and also was fortunate to have a look at his collection) when we met but he concluded it was probably the working boat owners own handiwork.

[jeannette smith harrison]

Alan your two pictures are very much like the couple of painted peices that i have in the attic & know for sure they are painted by

my Uncle Joe .

1piece i brought at an auction & was identified by Joe as his work another brought at a canal festival where Joe pointed it out & said it was his work the third was given to my by David Bladgrove who told me it was uncle Joe's work .

These pieces are not as good as the watering can or the water cans he done years ago for family , they are rushed quick painting done for sale to the public to earn pin money something he was not happy in doing & acc told them where to go when they expected him a born & breed boatman (His Words) to paint rose's on cat figures .

My can was painted some 40 / 50 odd years later not rushed but painted with love & with the time of a person who had painted for most of his life.

In my Ancesters remembered book I have some rose's & Castle sketches he drew for me they are so delicate it is hard to believe a man with hands the size of hams could do

Your two show his trademark of large daisy's & is almost identical to the plate I have .

you have more experience in identifying who painted what but to be total honest I myself would have been more convinced if it had no matter what colour large daisy's on the said mentioned water can .

[Ray T]

This:

 

 

 

 

Reduced from £525.00,now discounted to £325.00.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112116144701

Edited February 22, 2017 by Ray T

[David Mack]

This:

 

 

 

 

Reduced from £525.00,now discounted to £325.00.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112116144701

See post #122.

[pete harrison]

There are a number of Cans and Handbowls (old and modern), as well as a few other interesting items, included in the HNBC auction at Weston on 25 March 2017. These items are from a sources such as Malcolm Braine, Fred Heritage, Tony Lewery and Wyvern Shipping Co. Ltd..

This auction is open to HNBC members (so not me) and their guests (so could be me), and anybody wishing to make a bid must be registered.

Happy hunting