What do you think of this boat as a first buy?

[Melissas]

Hi everyone,

 

Hope you're not fed up of me posting boats for you to have a look at yet, it's just your advice has been invaluable thus far to inexperienced me and saved me from making several mistakes.

 

I've taken on board what you've all said about buying my first boat, in looking for a good shell and a decent boat builder, which has helped my search a lot. Could you please let me know what you think about this boat, which I'm hoping to go and see on Sunday? It's a Gary Gorton 60 footer.

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=485799

 

Thanks, Melissa

 

 

[Graham Davis]

Expensive, but then it is being sold in London.

[Melissas]

Thanks Graham, I must admit to finding it very tricky to assessing price fullstop.

You say expensive, how much would you expect this boat to be?

I heard Gary Gorton was a decent builder

[Tiggs]

Looks OK. If the hull survey is good and you like it then I suggest you make an offer for it. I don't know about Gary Gorton, but I know JD boats are ok as fitters.

[waterwitch]

Hello Melissa.

My boat is a Gary Gorton. 60ft. Beautifully built hull, very easy to handle, slips through the water, nice lines. We spent quite a time looking for the right boat for us and as is always the case had to compromise on some things (dedicated engine room was one of them) but would not compromise on quality of hull build. Hawkeye was built in 1995, so a couple of years older then the one you are looking at. She was previously owned by an American couple who cruised her for 7 months of every year and had done most of the system. She handles beautifully, is responsive and forgiving.

 

I reckon the one you are considering is not too costly...we paid a lot more for Hawkeye! A good hull is most important .Fit out can be changed and improved but if the hull is a dog there is not much you can do.

 

Suze

PS.

I see she has a side hatch too. This was another thing we refused to compromise on...side hatches are, in my opinion, essential!

[Neil Smith]

If the boat ticks your boxes and just feels right when you see her then make an offer of say £30,000 and see what happens, you can always go up a bit if you really want it. Then if accepted get a survey done but not the one the yard recommends.

 

Neil

[rustydiver]

You will know if the boat is right when you step on board. Go with your gut feeling. After looking at many boats and a few Boats i couldn't wait to get off our boat bought us.

I don't think 36k sounds bad knowing what I've seen for more and looks worse. But that is only the starting price go in cheaky at 30k you got to start somewhere. If you don't ask you don't get.

[rusty69]

Looks much better than the one you were looking at a few days ago.

 

Will need blacking and BSc soon. Also, no pictures of engine.

Edited October 1, 2016 by rusty69

[Nightwatch]

Looks nice. Survey needed. Through previous experience hull survey only if you know what to look for inside.

[OldGoat]

Umm -

Melissa - you don't say how you are going to use the boat. Most 'newbies' on these fora tend to be CCers.

If so - this boat has been set up to be in a marina (with the occasional trip out). The cooking electrics are 240v and some are very power hungry. Indeed there's no gas stove - just a microwave.

No mention of the engine generating capacity - which the advert would / most likely have stated if it had a large 12V alternator or Travel Power.

The interior looks as if it has been 'tarted up' with new domestic kitchen fittings - no dishonour there - but have they bee fitted well? Surely JD wouldn't have fitted such items when new.

As said elsewhere, both JD and GG are well respected fitters and builders.

 

If moored without mains power hookup, you'd need to run the engine everyday - and possibly all day - to keep the batteries charged up. That might cause some conflicts.....

[ditchcrawler]

Looks OK. If the hull survey is good and you like it then I suggest you make an offer for it. I don't know about Gary Gorton, but I know JD boats are ok as fitters.

Which JD is it, the one at Gaily or the one at Shardlow?

[Melissas]

Hi everyone, thanks to you all for your helpful replies!

 

Umm -

Melissa - you don't say how you are going to use the boat. Most 'newbies' on these fora tend to be CCers.

If so - this boat has been set up to be in a marina (with the occasional trip out). The cooking electrics are 240v and some are very power hungry. Indeed there's no gas stove - just a microwave.

No mention of the engine generating capacity - which the advert would / most likely have stated if it had a large 12V alternator or Travel Power.

The interior looks as if it has been 'tarted up' with new domestic kitchen fittings - no dishonour there - but have they bee fitted well? Surely JD wouldn't have fitted such items when new.

As said elsewhere, both JD and GG are well respected fitters and builders.

 

If moored without mains power hookup, you'd need to run the engine everyday - and possibly all day - to keep the batteries charged up. That might cause some conflicts.....

 

Thanks Old Goat for picking up on that, I'm still learning and didn't notice this.

Yes, you're right, we intend to continuously cruise her. Can I ask you what I should be looking for in terms of electricals/engine generating capacity for a serious liveaboard?

 

This Gary Gorton seemed to tick a lot of boxes for us at a not too inflated price, but if she isn't capable of being an efficient liveaboard then we'll need to keep searching...

 

We're both willing to make changes to the interior and would have changed the kitchen fairly promptly as it looked pretty inadequate for a full time kitchen, so we would want a gas stove or perhaps a small arger oven installed.

 

I have no idea if this is possible, but does anyone know how easy is it to make a boat mainly suited to marina living into an efficient continuous cruiser? Is this an expensive job and is it simply more sensible to keep on looking? I imagine the engine capacity is one of the fundamental issues..

 

Thanks for your advice

Edited October 1, 2016 by Melissas

[rusty69]

Umm -

Melissa - you don't say how you are going to use the boat. Most 'newbies' on these fora tend to be CCers.

If so - this boat has been set up to be in a marina (with the occasional trip out). The cooking electrics are 240v and some are very power hungry. Indeed there's no gas stove - just a microwave.

No mention of the engine generating capacity - which the advert would / most likely have stated if it had a large 12V alternator or Travel Power.

The interior looks as if it has been 'tarted up' with new domestic kitchen fittings - no dishonour there - but have they bee fitted well? Surely JD wouldn't have fitted such items when new.

As said elsewhere, both JD and GG are well respected fitters and builders.

 

If moored without mains power hookup, you'd need to run the engine everyday - and possibly all day - to keep the batteries charged up. That might cause some conflicts.....

Is the cooker electric?

[Lady Muck]

Umm -

Melissa - you don't say how you are going to use the boat. Most 'newbies' on these fora tend to be CCers.

If so - this boat has been set up to be in a marina (with the occasional trip out). The cooking electrics are 240v and some are very power hungry. Indeed there's no gas stove - just a microwave.

No mention of the engine generating capacity - which the advert would / most likely have stated if it had a large 12V alternator or Travel Power.

The interior looks as if it has been 'tarted up' with new domestic kitchen fittings - no dishonour there - but have they bee fitted well? Surely JD wouldn't have fitted such items when new.

As said elsewhere, both JD and GG are well respected fitters and builders.

 

If moored without mains power hookup, you'd need to run the engine everyday - and possibly all day - to keep the batteries charged up. That might cause some conflicts.....

 

I disagree, I think this is a good boat for ccing.

Theres a vanette gas cooker on this boat. Im not sure a London ccer needs travelpower, depends what the OP wants. Most London ccers keep it simple, big solar array, only 12v, many dont even bother with fridges. I think if this was gonna be mine, Id replace the fridge with a 12v version (but maybe just use a coolbox outside for the winter) and fit a big solar array and a decent mppt controller. Swap any normal lights for Leds. Dont thinnk anything else needs swapping out tbh.

If the OP keeps the eberspacher maintained ( dean dw marine who is local to that marina can do that for you) she can use it for a quick bit of heating on a night if shes back too late to light a fire in the burner. Its really good to have two heating options if you plan to cc in the capital and work away from the boat, youll be able to stay much warmer.

Is the cooker electric?

 

I thought it was gas, the op needs to check. It would be weird to find an electric cooker on a boat.

[Melissas]

Thanks all,

 

Is the cooker electric?

 

I don't think it is actually, I'm pretty certain that it's gas. I'm off to see her on Monday afternoon so will check then. Thanks

[rusty69]

I disagree, I think this is a good boat for ccing.

Theres a vanette gas cooker on this boat. Im not sure a London ccer needs travelpower, depends what the OP wants. Most London ccers keep it simple, big solar array, only 12v, many dont even bother with fridges. I think if this was gonna be mine, Id replace the fridge with a 12v version (but maybe just use a coolbox outside for the winter) and fit a big solar array and a decent mppt controller. Swap any normal lights for Leds. Dont thinnk anything else needs swapping out tbh.

If the OP keeps the eberspacher maintained ( dean dw marine who is local to that marina can do that for you) she can use it for a quick bit of heating on a night if shes back too late to light a fire in the burner. Its really good to have two heating options if you plan to cc in the capital and work away from the boat, youll be able to stay much warmer.

 

I thought it was gas, the op needs to check. It would be weird to find an electric cooker on a boat.

I was only going on what oldgoat put "The cooking electrics are 240v". I agree, it would be odd, but not unheard of to have an electric cooker, just wanted to clarify incase it put the op off what may be a suitable one for them to look at.

 

I agree with you, it looks like it could be suitable with a few modifications (assuming the cooker is indeed gas)

[Melissas]

I disagree, I think this is a good boat for ccing.

Theres a vanette gas cooker on this boat. Im not sure a London ccer needs travelpower, depends what the OP wants. Most London ccers keep it simple, big solar array, only 12v, many dont even bother with fridges. I think if this was gonna be mine, Id replace the fridge with a 12v version (but maybe just use a coolbox outside for the winter) and fit a big solar array and a decent mppt controller. Swap any normal lights for Leds. Dont thinnk anything else needs swapping out tbh.

If the OP keeps the eberspacher maintained ( dean dw marine who is local to that marina can do that for you) she can use it for a quick bit of heating on a night if shes back too late to light a fire in the burner. Its really good to have two heating options if you plan to cc in the capital and work away from the boat, youll be able to stay much warmer.

 

I thought it was gas, the op needs to check. It would be weird to find an electric cooker on a boat.

 

Thanks Lady Muck for your good advice.

I called the brokerage and had a chat with them just now and he said that the boat has twin alternators and the Victron Energie Inverter (12/1500/50), which would be sufficient to continuously cruise simply.

He said that the couple who last owned her (they sold her to him when they left the UK) continuously cruised her for 6 years with the final 2 years in a marina.

I'm going to have a look at her on Monday so I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks for all the good input

[alan_fincher]

If so - this boat has been set up to be in a marina (with the occasional trip out). The cooking electrics are 240v and some are very power hungry. Indeed there's no gas stove - just a microwave.

 

It says it is a Vanette, (i.e. a gas hob /oven). It looks like it is a gas hob/oven

 

Why do you think it isn't?

 

EDIT TO ADD:

 

On the basis of the details given, it doesn't look a bad boat to me, though often they don't look half as nice in the flesh as in pictures on web page.

 

If it looks OK in the flesh, personally I disagree with those who have indicated it is very overpriced. Assuming scope for some negotiation, advertised price doesn't look outrageous to me.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2016 by alan_fincher

[Melissas]

I was only going on what oldgoat put "The cooking electrics are 240v". I agree, it would be odd, but not unheard of to have an electric cooker, just wanted to clarify incase it put the op off what may be a suitable one for them to look at.

 

I agree with you, it looks like it could be suitable with a few modifications (assuming the cooker is indeed gas)

 

Thanks Rusty!

[OldGoat]

Melissas, on 01 Oct 2016 - 1:32 PM, said:

Hi everyone, thanks to you all for your helpful replies!

 

 

Thanks Old Goat for picking up on that, I'm still learning and didn't notice this.

Yes, you're right, we intend to continuously cruise her. Can I ask you what I should be looking for in terms of electricals/engine generating capacity for a serious liveaboard?

 

This Gary Gorton seemed to tick a lot of boxes for us at a not too inflated price, but if she isn't capable of being an efficient liveaboard then we'll need to keep searching...

 

We're both willing to make changes to the interior and would have changed the kitchen fairly promptly as it looked pretty inadequate for a full time kitchen, so we would want a gas stove or perhaps a small arger oven installed.

 

I have no idea if this is possible, but does anyone know how easy is it to make a boat mainly suited to marina living into an efficient continuous cruiser? Is this an expensive job and is it simply more sensible to keep on looking? I imagine the engine capacity is one of the fundamental issues..

 

Thanks for your advice

 

Oops - My Bad - I didn't see the cooker anywhere in the pics - so I assumed that the owner used only the microwave, some folks hate gas....

Then looking at Rusty's post below, I went back to the advert and saw 'Vanette' in the listing....

To be more economical with electric power I would:-

dump the microwave - use the gas cooker more

dump the fridge (it is an inefficient model) and

• fit a more modern efficient A++ fridge or better fridge/freezer, my choice would be a Liebherr mains unit powered by a small Victron inverter as the standby power drain is small. Others would disagree about both / either...
• The F/F is tall so positioning it might not go with your plans. We don't like to have to shop too regularly, but we use the boat for cruising, so my comments might not apply to your lifestyle.
• A 240v fridge or fridge freezer plus a small Victron would cost around £600 - about the same as a small 12v fridge (only) and give you greater flexibility, IMHO)

With gas cooking used, then the boat becomes more flexible and CCing practicable - removes the 'marina only' tag. The ebbersplutter for hot water and some general heating and stove for general heating, makes you more independent of the usual domestic services.

 

Living on a boat means that the land based 'luxuries' such as-

• fresh water supply
• gas supply
• electricity
• sanitation disposal
• rubbish disposal

have to be sourced by yourselves and on a regular basis, so you must plan for these, which in London can be quite a challenge as you won't have a fixed mooring (perhaps any mooring) to return to. Looking at threads on here some folks don't consider these (until too late)

 

 

 

rusty69, on 01 Oct 2016 - 2:06 PM, said:

Is the cooker electric?

 

No gas

Lady Muck, on 01 Oct 2016 - 2:11 PM, said:

I disagree, I think this is a good boat for ccing.

Theres a vanette gas cooker on this boat. Im not sure a London ccer needs travelpower, depends what the OP wants. Most London ccers keep it simple, big solar array, only 12v, many dont even bother with fridges. I think if this was gonna be mine, Id replace the fridge with a 12v version (but maybe just use a coolbox outside for the winter) and fit a big solar array and a decent mppt controller. Swap any normal lights for Leds. Dont thinnk anything else needs swapping out tbh.

If the OP keeps the eberspacher maintained ( dean dw marine who is local to that marina can do that for you) she can use it for a quick bit of heating on a night if shes back too late to light a fire in the burner. Its really good to have two heating options if you plan to cc in the capital and work away from the boat, youll be able to stay much warmer.

 

I thought it was gas, the op needs to check. It would be weird to find an electric cooker on a boat.

 

Agreed - if a slightly reduced (that is from a 'normal' land based dwelling) basis is acceptable. I prefer not to shop every day so life without a fridge is an anathema. My suggestion above consumes about the same power as a 12v fridge.

[rusty69]

I think you will know fairly quickly upon viewing whether it is the right boat for you. A good survey will then tell you if it is worth buying, and what potentially needs doing to it. It is worth viewing as many potentially suitable boats as you can to give you a good indication of what your money will buy.Indeed , I think someone mentioned it before, but its also worth looking above and below your price range.

 

When we purchased Mr Rusty, we had looked at what seemed hundreds of boats,and we could tell within minutes of being onboard whether they would be suitable or not.

 

I think Solar would be a good upgrade for this boat,as suggested by Lady Muck.Perhaps the tops of the storage boxes could be modified to accommodate them (if enough room to get under bridges).

 

Anyway, good luck with the viewing, let us know how you get on.

[Melissas]

Thanks everyone for your help, I'll let you all know how the viewing goes tomorrow.

I went to see another boat today, who I'm rather taken with. I just spotted her walking along the canal and she was for sale, so had a look. She's a 58ft Paul Widdowson built in 2006, blacked last year and one owner at £36K ONO. She only has one double berth (I really wanted two but she may be worth making the compromise for), a Beta marine engine which sounded and looked lovely and a 3000w Victon Inverter. She had spray foam insulation, a diesel stove which was also connected to the radiators. She was very well maintained and comfy. The owner fitted her out (he is now a retired builder) and the carpentry was lovely inside.

I think she might be a good deal and am thinking of making an offer, can any of you tell me what you might know of Paul Widdowson boats? I really liked the steelwork and shape of her.

I might also pop up a new topic to see what others out there think of the boat builder

Thanks!

[Athy]

Very respected shell-builder, came up through R&D Fabrications (one of the best builders of the 1990s era), left to start up on his own at least 10 years ago, I think it's now a father-and-son team building the boats. I have never come across adverse criticism of his boats.

[Nightwatch]

Very respected shell-builder, came up through R&D Fabrications (one of the best builders of the 1990s era), left to start up on his own at least 10 years ago, I think it's now a father-and-son team building the boats. I have never come across adverse criticism of his boats.

Thats a good reply Mike. I like positive.

 

I'm a bit worried about a narrowboat walking down the tow path though.

[Melissas]

Thanks Athy for your double post !