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Towing Butty long rope versus cross straps?


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This is just out of pure curiosity (which killed the cat,) but I have noticed two distinct ways of towing a butty over the years: Cross straps with the butty right up to the motor rear fender, or an extremely long rope from the motor to the butty. Are the two distinct ways for different circumstances, or is it just a preference thing?

Many thanks.

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This is just out of pure curiosity (which killed the cat,) but I have noticed two distinct ways of towing a butty over the years: Cross straps with the butty right up to the motor rear fender, or an extremely long rope from the motor to the butty. Are the two distinct ways for different circumstances, or is it just a preference thing?

Many thanks.

Ahoy old bean. I don't tow butties but I seem to do quite a lot when boats breakdown. I only cross strap a boat if its lighter than mine, cruisers and the like, otherwise I have em a line. If you cross strap a boat that is heavier than the tow boat it is likely to keep trying to jack-knife the tow boat when going around bends and stopping. A heavily laden boat on cross straps would be deep in the water too and would interfere with the tow boats prop thrust slipstream, ''pushing against the butty bow underwater and slowing you down. I think they only cross strap empty butties or nearly empty. Mind you a doorstep marmalade butty makes a good buffer between the two. Mind you it helps if someones steering the boat on tow, especially if its on a long line. smile.png

Edited by bizzard
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My understanding is cross straps are used when empty and a long line when loaded. You can tow on a short line as well. Using cross straps means the butty steerer has very little to do as generally the butty justs follows the motor.

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When loaded, you'd tow on a long line, so as to get the butty out of the wash of the motor, either a short 20' line if there were lots of locks, or a longer line. You could also use running blocks, where the butty steerer controlled the length of line.

 

When empty, you could use cross straps, or travel breasted up, as the motor's wash went under the fore end of the butty, and with it not needing to be steered means the butty steerer can get on with domestic tasks, lockwheel, etc.

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I liked Buzzard's version.

 

Also (i don't know) but i would expect you would probably tow a loaded butty with cross straps if there was another lock coming up soon. No idea what the distance would be but in a flight it would not be worth towing on a long line.

 

This may be bs as I have never looked into it closely.

 

I know catweasels question appears to have been answered but there are lots of variations to it and I think it could be quite a long and interesting discussion.

 

I'll get my anorak

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I liked Buzzard's version.

 

Also (i don't know) but i would expect you would probably tow a loaded butty with cross straps if there was another lock coming up soon. No idea what the distance would be but in a flight it would not be worth towing on a long line.

 

This may be bs as I have never looked into it closely.

 

I'm pretty sure I have seen a motor in one lock start a butty out of the lock behind using a long line

 

There was some nice long line working at Parkhead last weekend, with a horse

 

Richard

 

Richard

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I'm pretty sure I have seen a motor in one lock start a butty out of the lock behind using a long line

 

There was some nice long line working at Parkhead last weekend, with a horse

 

Richard

 

Richard

I think this may be one example

 

 

Edit to embed video correctly

 

Edited by Rob-M
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I'm pretty sure I have seen a motor in one lock start a butty out of the lock behind using a long line

 

There was some nice long line working at Parkhead last weekend, with a horse

 

Richard

 

Richard

Makes sense if the lock is fairly close but if it was a flight where the lock was "just round the corner" there must have been a point where it would not make sense to use a long line but tow with cross straps.

 

I don't know - its interesting to think about the most efficient way to do it if there is another lock coming up soon but you can't reasonably keep both boats attached while operating two different locks. This is where the cross straps would come in even with a loaded boat i would have thought.

 

All a bit too detailed I guess.

 

Rob-M

 

I get a bit worried when I see someone in modern trainers strapping gate closed but I see your point :)

 

And his hands look much too close to the strapping post - rather dangerous IMO

Edited by magnetman
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Also (i don't know) but i would expect you would probably tow a loaded butty with cross straps if there was another lock coming up soon. No idea what the distance would be but in a flight it would not be worth towing on a long line.

 

 

It depends too on if you are talking about a wide waterway such as the Grand Union or one with 7' locks. On the GU We would normally travel abreast in flights, either loaded or MT. If the locks were a bit more spaced out we would use a 20' snatcher and in long pounds a 90' snubber, particularly in the parks where there are a couple of 90 degree turns. On a narrow canal we have on occasion with locks very close like bits of the 30/12 used a long line with the motor coming into one lock and simultaneously pulling the butty from the one behind, but you've got to mess about so the line doesn't get trapped as gates shut.

 

It's more trouble than it's worth to try towing a loaded butty on cross straps. I once saw Electric Eric of 3Fellows pushing his loaded butty up the Denham pound - the motor was strapped as tightly as possible to the butty stern, just slightly offset so his stem was more or less level with the butty hatches. It meant Beryl could get on with things in the cabin, but it did not look like something to do except in dire need.

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It's interesting to experiment with different lengths of cross-strap.

 

If the straps are very short, the turning moment to the towed boat can be quite a lot, so the two boats tend to act as a rigid unit (especially if the boat being towed is light in weight). As a result the stern of the towed boat tends to swing out on the corners and can easily run aground on the outside of the bend..

 

If the straps are very long, the turning moment is much less so the towed boat tends to cut the corners and run aground on the inside of the bend.

 

If yuo get the length just right, according to the size and weight of the boat being towed, it will follow you sweetly down the centre of the canal and you can almost forget that it is there.

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To expand upon cross straps, they keep the stem of the butty tight up against the stern fender of the motor and there is no particular need for a steerer on the butty. A steerer can help when taking a hard turn by steering the butty slightly away from the turn at the appropriate time. This means the strap on the side away from the turn on the butty is pulling the motor stern round more sharply - effectively trying to jack-knife it - and the motor steerer hardly has to move the tiller at all to complete the turn other than a brief twitch in the other direction to pull the butty straight at the end.

 

 

edit to add - I see Mike's post now, but have never found need for this with a pair of working craft. Smaller boats with differing relative weights/drafts may require some experimentation. I have towed a wide hopper with a bantam tug and that did require longer straps.

Edited by Tam & Di
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Tam

 

I assumed the topic was about narrow flights as it -seems to me- fairly clear that in a flight of broad locks the boats would tend to remain abreast.

 

I was thinking there may have been situations where cross straps were used on narrow canals with loaded butty because of a lock being close but not close enough, if you see what I mean.

 

As I said I don't know.

 

BTW thanks for joining in this topic its nice to hear from someone with experience of commercial carrying :)

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I once saw Electric Eric of 3Fellows pushing his loaded butty up the Denham pound - the motor was strapped as tightly as possible to the butty stern, just slightly offset so his stem was more or less level with the butty hatches. It meant Beryl could get on with things in the cabin, but it did not look like something to do except in dire need.

Stemming, I think that was called. There was an article about it in a recent Narrow Boat magazine. I think it was more common on the BCN.

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Tam

 

I was thinking there may have been situations where cross straps were used on narrow canals with loaded butty because of a lock being close but not close enough, if you see what I mean.

 

As I said I don't know.

In those circumstances the butty is likely to be bow-hauled between locks.

 

I think there are a number of reasons why using cross straps on a loaded boat is impractical. Not least getting them to stay in position given that the stem post of the butty would be at a similar level to the dollies on the counter of the motor. When running empty the butty stem is much higher than the counter of the motor and that is what keeps the straps taut and in place either side of the stem post.

 

JP

 

ETA - having read it again I suspect you meant when the locks are a bit far too apart to make bow hauling comfortable. On the Wolverhampton 21 where the locks are close but not that close I believe that in working days horses could be rented to assist butties.

Edited by Captain Pegg
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In those circumstances the butty is likely to be bow-hauled between locks.

 

I think there are a number of reasons why using cross straps on a loaded boat is impractical. Not least getting them to stay in position given that the stem post of the butty would be at a similar level to the dollies on the counter of the motor. When running empty the butty stem is much higher than the counter of the motor and that is what keeps the straps taut and in place either side of the stem post.

 

JP

 

ETA - having read it again I suspect you meant when the locks are a bit far too apart to make bow hauling comfortable. On the Wolverhampton 21 where the locks are close but not that close I believe that in working days horses could be rented to assist butties.

Thanks for that Captain Pegg.

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I liked Buzzard's version.

 

Also (i don't know) but i would expect you would probably tow a loaded butty with cross straps if there was another lock coming up soon. No idea what the distance would be but in a flight it would not be worth towing on a long line.

 

This may be bs as I have never looked into it closely.

 

I know catweasels question appears to have been answered but there are lots of variations to it and I think it could be quite a long and interesting discussion.

 

I'll get my anorak

I have never come across a loaded butty towed with cross straps, some pairs steerers had a tow line around half the length( Snatcher) of the long line(Snubber) & adjusted the length by looping around the dollies ( figure of 8) & half hitch on the rear of the motor casting off as the butty was just entering the lock( wide) & with narrow locks the long line would be used. If the locks were close together the butty was more often bow hauled

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Cross straps when empty ( or nearly empty aka converted butty) used to allow for hoovering in butty and battery charging when the 3rd was the 240v engine run generator.... Nb disconnect prior to taking off cross straps

Snatch line ( which in our case doubled as the bow breasting up line) for quick getaways or short pounds when the steerer could be on the boat Ie if you knew lock was for you

Long line for long pounds ( up to 140 foot if argument had been recent like when you get the 240 line chopped by the butty)

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We tow our butty on cross straps. She is the equivalent of half loaded but as my wife is relatively inexperienced with butty steering I'm reluctant at the moment to put her (the butty! ;) ) on a line. The other reason is we have an umbilical to charge the butty batteries which goes on when on straps. The final reason, is due to the influx of relatively inexperienced boaters, having the butty on the fenders has helped on more than one occasion with people panicking about seeing a pair coming. The favourite seems to be running up the offside and slamming in reverse, swinging their back end into the butty. If she was on a long line and they swung in the middle of the towpath it would be a bit of an issue. We had several of these bringing the pair back to Langley Mill in the Spring.

 

Regards

 

Dan

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We tow our butty on cross straps. She is the equivalent of half loaded but as my wife is relatively inexperienced with butty steering I'm reluctant at the moment to put her (the butty! wink.png ) on a line. The other reason is we have an umbilical to charge the butty batteries which goes on when on straps. The final reason, is due to the influx of relatively inexperienced boaters, having the butty on the fenders has helped on more than one occasion with people panicking about seeing a pair coming. The favourite seems to be running up the offside and slamming in reverse, swinging their back end into the butty. If she was on a long line and they swung in the middle of the towpath it would be a bit of an issue. We had several of these bringing the pair back to Langley Mill in the Spring.

 

Regards

 

Dan

 

Did you get the 'boats like that shouldn't be on the canal' shout?

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