Out it comes! - (Flamingo's engine removal)

[alan_fincher]

I thought some might be interested to see this.

 

We know our historic working boat "Flamingo" had a reconditioned Lister HA2 engine fitted by Willow Wren in 1968, (it only carried for 2 more years after this until WWCTS was wound up in 1970).

We have no proof the engine we now have is the same one, but it seems highly likely. There is no evidence available to us that it has ever been removed in the 48 years since, and the most likely explanation is probably that it never has been.

 

Several large overhaul tasks are not possible unless it is removed, so needless to say it now needs some major work.

This video shows the engine being removed at Brinklow Boat Services this week.

[Nightwatch]

Not able to see he film Alan.

[Guest]

Alan - I'm getting 'this video is private' if I try to view it.

 

Have got your privacy settings on that vid. correct?

[alan_fincher]

Hmm

Definitely shows as "Public", but possibly there was also a "publish" stage not yet completed. Any better now?

[Rob-M]

Video is working for me

 

Edit to remove daft comment having reread OP.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Rob-M

[alan_fincher]

Video is working for me

 

Why is the engine being taken out...?

 

It needs a rebuild.

[Rob-M]

It needs a rebuild.

you replied too quick, I reread your opening post and saw you had commented on why it was being taken out.

[Guest]

Working fine now, thanks.

[Athy]

Working fine now, thanks.

For me too - and I hope the engine soon will be.

[Ray T]

There's now an 'ole where the engine was. Is that why its called an engine 'ole?

[Tony Dunkley]

I thought some might be interested to see this.

 

We know our historic working boat "Flamingo" had a reconditioned Lister HA2 engine fitted by Willow Wren in 1968, (it only carried for 2 more years after this until WWCTS was wound up in 1970).

 

Several large overhaul tasks are not possible unless it is removed, so needless to say it now needs some major work.

 

 

I don't know why you think this, but you couldn't be more wrong. The design and construction of all of the H-range engines, up to the 3 x cylinder models, permits complete dismantling, overhaul and reassembly with the engine in situ.

 

Changing cranks, bearings, barrels and pistons on a 2 or 3 x cylinder is no more than a days work.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[RLWP]

 

I don't know why you think this, but you couldn't be more wrong. The design and construction of all of the H-range engines, up to the 3 x cylinder models, permits complete dismantling, overhaul and reassembly with the engine in situ.

 

Changing cranks, bearings, barrels and pistons on a 2 or 3 x cylinder is no more than a days work.

 

Because the crankshaft won't come out the block on Flamingo, the engine room is too short

 

Richard

[jake_crew]

Thirsty work on the hotest day of recent times !

 

Did you find any treasure under the engine ?

[bargemast]

Hi Alan, I enjoyed watching this video.

Hope the engine will be overhauled without the need for too many expensive new parts, and be good for another 48 years after the work is done.

Good luck,

 

Peter.

[billh]

I've never been entirely happy about the lifting eye fitting on those Listers. The engine is pretty heavy and the lifting eye is on the rocker cover studs which , if I remember right are only 1/4in studs. Probably fine when the engine was new, but after 40+ years of having the rocker covers on and off , the threads can be worn, stretched etc. , failure of those could spell disaster. There are alternative, bigger lifting brackets available that mount on the fan casing and rear cylinder head.

Bill

[billS]

 

Did you find any treasure under the engine ?

 

Or even the golden rivet?

[Athy]

 

Or even the golden rivet?

On Flamingo, would it not be a pink rivet?

[RLWP]

I've never been entirely happy about the lifting eye fitting on those Listers. The engine is pretty heavy and the lifting eye is on the rocker cover studs which , if I remember right are only 1/4in studs. Probably fine when the engine was new, but after 40+ years of having the rocker covers on and off , the threads can be worn, stretched etc. , failure of those could spell disaster. There are alternative, bigger lifting brackets available that mount on the fan casing and rear cylinder head.

Bill

 

5/16" on an H

 

Richard

[Tony Dunkley]

 

Because the crankshaft won't come out the block on Flamingo, the engine room is too short

 

Richard

 

Unless the engine hole has been radically altered from the standard 'Northwich' length, and width, there is enough room to get a 2 x cylinder crank out.

 

The gearbox has to come off to remove the crankshaft timing gear before pulling the crank out, and with the box out of the way and the remaining bed bolts out, the engine will go far enough back towards the cabin bulkhead to leave more than enough space at the flywheel end.

 

This is not strictly 'doing it in situ', I know, but taking out the two holding down bolts on ether side of the flywheel housing and sliding the engine back, or lifting it from a bar across the pigeon box hole and standing it across the beds on a couple of pieces of timber, is a whole lot less work and effort than taking the engine-hole top off and bringing a crane in.

[RLWP]

 

Unless the engine hole has been radically altered from the standard 'Northwich' length, and width, there is enough room to get a 2 x cylinder crank out.

 

The gearbox has to come off to remove the crankshaft timing gear before pulling the crank out, and with the box out of the way and the remaining bed bolts out, the engine will go far enough back towards the cabin bulkhead to leave more than enough space at the flywheel end.

 

This is not strictly 'doing it in situ', I know, but taking out the two holding down bolts on ether side of the flywheel housing and sliding the engine back, or lifting it from a bar across the pigeon box hole and standing it across the beds on a couple of pieces of timber, is a whole lot less work and effort than taking the engine-hole top off and bringing a crane in.

 

On the other hand, would you prefer to do the engine work in the boat or in a workshop, Tony?

 

Richard

[Naughty Cal]

 

On the other hand, would you prefer to do the engine work in the boat or in a workshop, Tony?

 

Richard

I suspect you already know how he will answer that

[Tony Dunkley]

 

On the other hand, would you prefer to do the engine work in the boat or in a workshop, Tony?

 

Richard

 

Having done more of these sorts of jobs in barge, tug and narrowboat enginerooms since the 1960's than I really care to remember, I would generally go for the workshop option, if I had the choice.

 

However, in this instance, and taking into account the relatively small amount of work, difficulty and time, involved in changing the crank, bearings, barrels and pistons on an air cooled Lister twin, in comparison with adding the tasks of taking off, and replacing an engine room top, lifting out and then lifting back in, and getting the engine to and back from the workshop, then I'd say that, on balance, it would be quicker and easier to leave the engine in the boat.

[alan_fincher]

In this case I believe the engine will be worked on no more than about 10 yards from the point it was removed from the boat.

 

A fork lift is already available as part of the standard facilities present at the yard, so nothing has had to be brought on site other than the boat itself.

 

However there was a likely expected penalty of removing the engine room roof, as it is an original in less than perfect condition, and some damage seemed inevitable, given it has been on probably for decades.

 

Now it is off it is obvious it will need some repair, as will part of the cabin to which it bolts. This is no bad thing, as we have exposed repairs done with fibreglass at some stage, and not really working. It will be good to get repairs done, so it is only relying on steel lapped over steel, and it is once again properly water tight.

 

Another issue is that the engine sits over a large tray that is supposed to be the tray that meets the requirements about keeping stuff that drips from the engine from ending up in the general bilge area. However at some stage the end of this tray has been smashed down, so it is not serving its intended purpose. We should now be able to remove it, and have it repaired, and also deal with the several inches of oil and grease ridden silt that lies below it on the bottom of the boat, which we know is there, but have not been able to get too until now.

 

The people lifting the engine are well aware of the limitations of those lifting eyes, but say despite the concerns they have never ever heard of one failing. Another engineer I have just visited to look at alternate engines says that in decades he has only ever seen the engines lifted that way, and has never heard of a problem.

 

However when it is your engine dangling six or more feet above the bottom of your boat, you do start to wonder!

[James Owen]

In this case I believe the engine will be worked on no more than about 10 yards from the point it was removed from the boat.

 

A fork lift is already available as part of the standard facilities present at the yard, so nothing has had to be brought on site other than the boat itself.

 

However there was a likely expected penalty of removing the engine room roof, as it is an original in less than perfect condition, and some damage seemed inevitable, given it has been on probably for decades.

 

Now it is off it is obvious it will need some repair, as will part of the cabin to which it bolts. This is no bad thing, as we have exposed repairs done with fibreglass at some stage, and not really working. It will be good to get repairs done, so it is only relying on steel lapped over steel, and it is once again properly water tight.

 

Another issue is that the engine sits over a large tray that is supposed to be the tray that meets the requirements about keeping stuff that drips from the engine from ending up in the general bilge area. However at some stage the end of this tray has been smashed down, so it is not serving its intended purpose. We should now be able to remove it, and have it repaired, and also deal with the several inches of oil and grease ridden silt that lies below it on the bottom of the boat, which we know is there, but have not been able to get too until now.

 

The people lifting the engine are well aware of the limitations of those lifting eyes, but say despite the concerns they have never ever heard of one failing. Another engineer I have just visited to look at alternate engines says that in decades he has only ever seen the engines lifted that way, and has never heard of a problem.

 

However when it is your engine dangling six or more feet above the bottom of your boat, you do start to wonder!

All valid points however Tony is quite correct, it is no more than a days work.

 

I'm curious as to why you should wish to retain the oil drip tray? I would normally consider the engine room as being self contained and thus negate the need for a separate tray unless you have bilge pumping arrangements in the engine room also. I would prefer to see the bilges and keep them clean and painted.

[Jrtm]

Ive got a electric model nitro boat engine if you want to try it. Good work getting it out. Im dreading having to do this!! Will be nice once its all done and looking shiny and smart