Some bad luck, Help please?

[Verboaten]

It's been a while but I am back and begging once again (sorry!) and apologies for the long post, i'll put a short version at the end for those that TLDR

Our Shenny-Lee 23ft Cabin Cruiser was recently taken on its maiden voyage from the Denver Sluice down to The Ship pub a few miles down river, she performed impeccably, pumping out water and with no sign of burning fuel, we stopped for lunch before hopping back onboard and heading back up river to our home mooring.
Sadly we barely managed to get past the first bend as I noticed we were no longer pumping water and the engine was overheating with smoke coming out the engine bay.

We managed to moor up at a private mooring and topped up our oil which was still within limits so the engine had not seized, it restarts but will overheat due to not pumping water.

After speaking with the mooring owner he mentioned it was highly likely to be a weed trap blocking the water flow, although we cannot find such an item on our boat nor could another boater who took a look, he was happy for us to moor up there temporarily whilst we try to get our mechanic to take a look, a call to our mechanic found that he is off work seriously sick (sods law), a taxi back to our car and a long trip back home.

 

Fast forward to another fortnight when we can get back to the boat and we made the decision to buy a small direct drive outboard (Crescent 5hp) to hang from the outboard bracket and slowly get us home.

After some fettling we had the outboard fitted and running with a few teething issues trying to steer (the outboard bracket is offset meaning it pushes the boat from one side) we finally had her straight and moving for about 500 yards until the revs dropped and the outboard died, I figured this was due to weeds wrapping around the prop and so cleared it off the best i could, but the outboard will not fire again.

We spent the next 10 minutes drifting down river desperately trying to get the outboard restarted, at this time two boats approached from behind, we attempted to flag them down to request a tow but the first didn't acknowledge us at all and the second simply shook his head, apparently a boat drifting unpowered in the river is not worth stopping for.
As we drifted closer to the row of boats at the nearby boat club, fortunately a member had seen us and came to grab a rope to moor us up at a spare unkempt mooring for which we were very grateful, he looked over both engines, could not find the weed trap either and after checking the outboards spark plug determined it was not getting fuel, which is surprising as it was running fine.

 

This is now where we are moored and are desperately seeking methods to get us back up river to our home mooring so we can begin to troubleshoot both of our engine issues.

In short:

• Main engine is overheating and cannot be run for longer than a few minutes, it does not pump water.
• Auxiliary outboard (Crescent 5hp) purchased is now not getting fuel.
• Our home mooring is next to Jenyns Arms.
• We need a tow back up river to Denver Sluice and a boat mechanic to help diagnose the fault.

 

We asked around denver sluice but fellow boaters either did not have a mechanic or were using the same one as us who was sick.

 

Anyone able to help?

 

Thank you!

 

[haggis]

I don't know a lot about engines but our little Sea Otter is also water cooled and once when I was on a trip with friends the same thing happened. No water coming out the back and engine started to over heat. There is a little plastic round thing which traps small stuff in the water intake and you can unscrew the top and clean it out but that didn't seem to help. We decided that the water was not getting into this filter due to a blockage in the pipe from below the hull and necessity being the mother of invention, we straightened out a wire coat hanger and poked it down from the filter. This cleared the blockage and all was well.

As I said, I know not a lot about engines but perhaps a similar approach might help you.

 

Haggis

[Phil Ambrose]

Firstly, the O/B lack of fuel, silly things first, is fuel turned on? if using s remote tank is the air bleed screw on the cap open, likewise is there a air bleed screw on the integral tank of the motor.

I have made this error in the past.

As for the main engine, phone Pat who is just down the Brandon Creek he is a first rate mechanic.

Phone 07895094755

[David Mack]

If the main engine is running but not pumping out cooling water then either you have a blockage or the water pump has failed. You should be able to trace the water pipework back to the inlet seacock, and find any filter - there should be one somewhere.

 

But it could be as simple as a lump of weed stuck on the inlet. Try feeling underwater for the inlet, or if you cannot reach it, sweep over it with a mop or broom.

 

If the water pump has failed its most likely the impeller. If its a Jabsco type pump there will be a flat brass plate cover you can remove. If the impeller has lost any lopes it needs replacing - make sure to remove any broken off lobes.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

The outboard has a water intake low down which might be blocked. The inboard needs a weed filter on the water intake to stop the weeds being sucked into the engine cooling, the intake can be blocked by weeds or even with mud. poke down to clear.

[Verboaten]

Firstly, the O/B lack of fuel, silly things first, is fuel turned on? if using s remote tank is the air bleed screw on the cap open, likewise is there a air bleed screw on the integral tank of the motor.

I have made this error in the past.

As for the main engine, phone Pat who is just down the Brandon Creek he is a first rate mechanic.

Phone 07895094755

 

It has a separate tank, air screw was open, no tank on the motor.

 

The outboard has a water intake low down which might be blocked. The inboard needs a weed filter on the water intake to stop the weeds being sucked into the engine cooling, the intake can be blocked by weeds or even with mud. poke down to clear.

This is a direct drive, direct fuel fed air cooled motor, it does not pump water (at least that's what i was told?)

 

Thanks for the suggestions! We will take a look next time we are at the boat.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Verboaten

[DHutch]

As said, the outboard can be taken off and t wherever you can find service, as said, if its brand new it could be early-life failure of something, if not it could be due to it standing, or anything. Very hard to tell but any good outboard mechanic should be able to sort it. The outboard will be watercooled, almost certainly, with a small impeller at the bottom of the leg.

 

Inboard, do not run it without coolant other than to see if you have fixed the issue. Can you trace the pipework to find the inlet, and outlet, pump, etc. Failing that, can you snap a stack of photos for us to locate parts for you remotely. What type of engine is it?

 

 

Daniel

[Verboaten]

As said, the outboard can be taken off and t wherever you can find service, as said, if its brand new it could be early-life failure of something, if not it could be due to it standing, or anything. Very hard to tell but any good outboard mechanic should be able to sort it. The outboard will be watercooled, almost certainly, with a small impeller at the bottom of the leg.

 

Inboard, do not run it without coolant other than to see if you have fixed the issue. Can you trace the pipework to find the inlet, and outlet, pump, etc. Failing that, can you snap a stack of photos for us to locate parts for you remotely. What type of engine is it?

 

 

Daniel

 

Not new, preowned outboard, just hoped it would of run/lasted longer than 500 yards.

 

The inboard is a BMC 1.5 petrol engine, will get pictures and update the thread, or try to trace pipework.

[Jim Riley]

I had a blockage on my Honda 10 outboard. Opened the cover, pulled rubber outlet pipe out of its exit hole and blew down it, sorted.

[zenataomm]

When the water inlet on my BMC 1.5 diesel got blocked with weed etc. there was a strainer inboard just after the cock you could dismantle.

However sometimes the grid on the outside of the hull was also blocked.

I used to disconnect the "water in" pipe at the engine end and then blow down it to reverse the flow/pressure and clear the block.

[Phil Ambrose]

And don't forget to give Pat a ring, he is a good man.

Phil

[gazza]

As said, the outboard can be taken off and t wherever you can find service, as said, if its brand new it could be early-life failure of something, if not it could be due to it standing, or anything. Very hard to tell but any good outboard mechanic should be able to sort it. The outboard will be watercooled, almost certainly, with a small impeller at the bottom of the leg.

 

Inboard, do not run it without coolant other than to see if you have fixed the issue. Can you trace the pipework to find the inlet, and outlet, pump, etc. Failing that, can you snap a stack of photos for us to locate parts for you remotely. What type of engine is it?

 

 

Daniel

The crescent IS air cooled as correctly stated by the OP.

[Alan de Enfield]

As said, the outboard can be taken off and t wherever you can find service, as said, if its brand new it could be early-life failure of something, if not it could be due to it standing, or anything.

 

I think that the Crescent outboards ceased production in the late 70's

 

They were taken over by Volvo Penta, who continued for a few years and then dropped the Crescent name / design and produced their own OBs

Edited September 15, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[gazza]

 

It has a separate tank, air screw was open, no tank on the motor.

 

This is a direct drive, direct fuel fed air cooled motor, it does not pump water (at least that's what i was told?)

 

Thanks for the suggestions! We will take a look next time we are at the boat.

If no fuel at the carb with a remote tank then the prime candidate is the fuel pump diaphragm.

 

Look for selva, Volvo penta, Archimedes - parts look to be getting near unobtainaium levels.

 

As for the inboard, there HAS to be a strainer, chase the pipework back from the engine driven pump to find it. You will need a new impeller - get two so you have a spare onboard, looked after they should last two years and 250 hours - we have a BMC 1.5 With a jabsco 4900 that never gives problems.

 

Are you sure it's a 1.5 petrol? The Morris veddete petrol used the old 948cc engine.

 

Common BMC 1.5 Engines in boats are diesels

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

 

The inboard is a BMC 1.5 petrol engine, will get pictures and update the thread, or try to trace pipework.

 

Are you sure it's a 1.5 petrol? The Morris veddete petrol used the old 948cc engine.

 

Common BMC 1.5 Engines in boats are diesels

 

Could that be the problem ?

[gazza]

Could that be the problem ?

Makes you wonder?!

 

Mud won't be an issue, that river is near gin clear on that stretch, if they have been hugging the bank reeds and lillies are more likely the culprit.

 

Barely any blanket weed or duck weed this summer, none whatsoever from Denver to the Lazy Otter at least.

 

Could be a rogue bag, but very unlikely tbh.

It may have a grid over the intake, more hafm than good as it makes clearing an obstruction much more difficult.

 

There has to be a seacock somewhere!

Edited September 15, 2016 by gazza

[FadeToScarlet]

If it'd been last week, I'd've towed you up to Denver. Afraid we're going in the other direction now, and have to be back at work on Monday, else I'd have a look for you.

[gazza]

One other thing, the OP has their ups and downs arse about backwards.

 

Downstream from Bedford to Denver, upstream from Denver to Bedford, not that it makes a big difference to their predicament!

[DHutch]

The crescent IS air cooled as correctly stated by the OP.

I think that the Crescent outboards ceased production in the late 70's

Fair

Not a name i am familiar with.

 

 

Daniel

[Texasboater]

The Crescent 5hp air cooled is a 2 stroke. Wonder if the OP is using the right mix of 24:1 TC oil?

[dccruiser]

i got stuck in the same predicament with a 1.5 bmc diesel ... had a bag that wouldnt move for anything ... being on the tidal i had to move there and then i closed the seacock, extended the pipe to the jabsco and put my bilge pump on the end, connected it to 12volts and put it over the side... it fed the engine enough water to carry on the rest of the day to a safe place to stop and deal with the bag and as it turned out a worn impellor in the jabsco ....

 

Having moored at shardlow and sawley for a number of years i have found on any trip on the river a few lengths of pipe, some wire , fuses, connector blocks, oil , spare filters, spare belts a spare impellor and a selection of tools are a must, no matter how good your engine is .... along with a familiarity with your engine as aside from cooling another favourite is air in the fuel system and i did know of one guy who almost lost his boat and his life on the tidal as he didnt know how to bleed his fuel system , personally maybe it was overkill but i even used to carry a spare starter battery ,,,, now i carry a quality jump pack and heavy duty jump leads and you would be surprised how many times i have used them as even an RCR membership wont help at that point when you are drifting backwards down the river with no power! ... i missed a bucket off my list as on another occassion on the tidal my diesel enngine started to overheat and because a lack of power would have been so dangerous i had the hatch up baling water over the engine to cool it enough to get out of trouble and tied up ... i know some will think what about your anchor, but on the tidal it can be dangerous to deploy one for any length of time as the water can leave you grounded one end while the other end of the boat continues to drop, its not happened to me but i have heard of it happening.

Sorry to those who i am teaching to suck eggs! be safe.

 

Rick

[gazza]

i got stuck in the same predicament with a 1.5 bmc diesel ... had a bag that wouldnt move for anything ... being on the tidal i had to move there and then i closed the seacock, extended the pipe to the jabsco and put my bilge pump on the end, connected it to 12volts and put it over the side... it fed the engine enough water to carry on the rest of the day to a safe place to stop and deal with the bag and as it turned out a worn impellor in the jabsco ....

 

Having moored at shardlow and sawley for a number of years i have found on any trip on the river a few lengths of pipe, some wire , fuses, connector blocks, oil , spare filters, spare belts a spare impellor and a selection of tools are a must, no matter how good your engine is .... along with a familiarity with your engine as aside from cooling another favourite is air in the fuel system and i did know of one guy who almost lost his boat and his life on the tidal as he didnt know how to bleed his fuel system , personally maybe it was overkill but i even used to carry a spare starter battery ,,,, now i carry a quality jump pack and heavy duty jump leads and you would be surprised how many times i have used them as even an RCR membership wont help at that point when you are drifting backwards down the river with no power! ... i missed a bucket off my list as on another occassion on the tidal my diesel enngine started to overheat and because a lack of power would have been so dangerous i had the hatch up baling water over the engine to cool it enough to get out of trouble and tied up ... i know some will think what about your anchor, but on the tidal it can be dangerous to deploy one for any length of time as the water can leave you grounded one end while the other end of the boat continues to drop, its not happened to me but i have heard of it happening.

Sorry to those who i am teaching to suck eggs! be safe.

 

Rick

 

 

all very good advice, you must have a bits and bobs box

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

I'm sorry I won't be able to help with towing (Ely to Denver and back is 8 hours).

 

But I am on the boat in Ely this weekend and could pop down (by car) and have a look if you've not found the various components on your inboard cooling system, that people are talking about above. I also have some of that coiled spring stuff with white plastic on - for net curtains - which could be useful!

[Alan de Enfield]

i got stuck in the same predicament with a 1.5 bmc diesel ... had a bag that wouldnt move for anything ... being on the tidal i had to move there and then i closed the seacock, extended the pipe to the jabsco and put my bilge pump on the end, connected it to 12volts and put it over the side... it fed the engine enough water to carry on the rest of the day to a safe place to stop and deal with the bag and as it turned out a worn impellor in the jabsco ....

 

Having moored at shardlow and sawley for a number of years i have found on any trip on the river a few lengths of pipe, some wire , fuses, connector blocks, oil , spare filters, spare belts a spare impellor and a selection of tools are a must, no matter how good your engine is ....

 

A man after my own heart : I have all of the above + a spare Alternator and starter motor, fuel lift pump, heat exchanger pipes and end caps etc. and a complete Jabsco pump (its quicker to change the complete pump than to change the impellor).

 

Having twin engines does give a feeling of security - unless its a fuel problem its unlikely that both will fail at the same time.

[gazza]

 

A man after my own heart : I have all of the above + a spare Alternator and starter motor, fuel lift pump, heat exchanger pipes and end caps etc. and a complete Jabsco pump (its quicker to change the complete pump than to change the impellor).

 

Having twin engines does give a feeling of security - unless its a fuel problem its unlikely that both will fail at the same time.

Are you aware of this tool?

 

https://www.marinemegastore.com/store/imp-removal-tool-65-118mm?utm_source=google_shopping&m=Abstract&gclid=CJbvypSkk88CFYcK0wod5zAPlQ

 

I made up some more drawbolts as the supplied one was too long for my 4900 pump, impeller change is 5 minutes tops with one of these.

 

We have a spare alternator, I'm working on an affordable spare starter as BMC starters command crazy prices now - new or used.