What is this engine?

[Laurence Hogg]

Taken from the war film 15 this shows a engine with an odd pipe on the right. Air intake? where did that come out?

 

[MtB]

Surely far too small for the air supply to an engine. Looks like a water pipe to me, but that just generates a similar question. If it's coolant why does it go vertically upwards?

 

Looks like a water cooled engine to me, from what we can see of it...

[Ray T]

Different trainees, same boat?

 

 

 

On the newsreel clip the GUCCCo motor appears to have the No. 383? The film is a bit fuzzy.

 

From Lady bargees start work on canal front.

 

British Paramount News

Edited September 12, 2016 by Ray T

[Jrtm]

National or rn pipe going up is water

Its in a gu boat as it has the corner side tanks.

The guy has the intake pipe off.

[Tony Dunkley]

Taken from the war film 15 this shows a engine with an odd pipe on the right. Air intake? where did that come out?

 

 

It's a National, and the smaller diameter pipe is the cooling water overside.

Some Nationals had an [air] intake manifold alongside the water manifold on top of the heads, but this one looks like the version with the air-box on the side of the block just below the heads.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[MtB]

Going to a header thank perhaps?

 

But why? No skin tanks in those days, the engines were raw water cooled surely...

[Jrtm]

On nationals the water pipe goes across a pipe joining the 2 cylinders then goes up and over near the cabin roof then back down and out the side.

Think Fulbourne still has it like this.

How im putting mine to.

Edited September 12, 2016 by billybobbooth

[Ray T]

National or rn pipe going up is water

Its in a gu boat as it has the corner side tanks.

The guy has the intake pipe off.

 

The guy is a lady, Frankie Cambell Martin.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Ray T

[MtB]

 

The guy is a lady.

 

 

You're kidding....!

[alan_fincher]

 

The guy is a lady.

 

From memory identified as Frankie Campbell-Martin, I think, but looking sufficiently different from other pictures of her that I would not have realised it was.

 

 

You're kidding....!

 

Not at all - it is one of the women "Trainees" from WWII.

[MtB]

 

Not at all - it is one of the women "Trainees" from WWII.

 

 

 

I know... another failed attempt at humour from me!

[Ray T]

Frankie AKA Monica & Evelyn Hunt.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Ray T

[Jrtm]

Um my bad.

Ill edit it then youll all look insane.

[alan_fincher]

Different trainees, same boat?

 

Trainees.JPG

 

On the newsreel clip the GUCCCo motor appears to have the No. 383? The film is a bit fuzzy.

 

From Lady bargees start work on canal front.

 

British Paramount News

 

Look again Ray.

 

The film confuses, because actually whilst starts to show a pair leaving the lock motor first, it then cuts to shots of a motor and butty coming out of a lock breasted. What you are getting the number from is a GUCCCo butty, and if it is 383, then it is "Vela", which I think was one of the boats allocated to the "Trainees".

[Ray T]

Um my bad.

Ill edit it then youll all look insane.

 

Look at post no 8 though.

 

Alan, this is the clip I referred to:

 

 

 

If it was a butty surely the lady wouldn't be stood half way down the cabin side, unless she is stood on a motor the far side? But I cannot make one out. As you say the film is confusing.

 

As I mentioned it is not very clear and the URL gets in the way.

 

Have you a better copy?

Edited September 12, 2016 by Ray T

[billh]

Taken from the war film 15 this shows a engine with an odd pipe on the right. Air intake? where did that come out?

 

Discussed recently at length (of pipe) in the Vintage National Engines bit. Cooling water out by a devious route.

Bill

[pete harrison]

 

Look at post no 8 though.

 

Alan, this is the clip I referred to:

 

Motor 383..JPG

 

If it was a butty surely the lady wouldn't be stood half way down the cabin side, unless she is stood on a motor the far side? But I cannot make one out. As you say the film is confusing.

Definately the small Woolwich butty VELA - short cabin, no engine - high(ish) cabin bock - curved top plank (yes, I know some motors had low cabin blocks and curved top planks) - and 383 means it is VELA. The motor paired with VELA is DEIMOS, and is listed as such on the G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd fleet list dated 14 September 1944, under the command of Miss Strachan.

 

The young lady on the cabin top looks to be kneeling or sitting on her heels to me, or at least sitting with her heels up close to her a%$e.

 

edit =

Edited September 12, 2016 by pete harrison

[alan_fincher]

 

Look at post no 8 though.

 

Alan, this is the clip I referred to:

 

Motor 383..JPG

 

If it was a butty surely the lady wouldn't be stood half way down the cabin side, unless she is stood on a motor the far side? But I cannot make one out. As you say the film is confusing.

 

As I mentioned it is not very clear and the URL gets in the way.

 

Have you a better copy?

 

Ray,

 

The image you have captured clearly shows the full extent of the cabin, as you can see the top plank curving down to a cabin block on top of it.

 

There is no engine room.

 

The nearest boat very clearly shows 383 - the GUCCCo number for butty Vela. One of the other postings, I believe indicates the motor may be "Deimos", but I have not studied the hazy film enough to see if that is likely.

 

 

The young lady on the cabin top looks to be kneeling or sitting on her heels to me, or at least sitting with her heels up close to her a%$e.

 

Given some recent moderation decisions it will be interesting to see if this is an acceptable posting!

[Jrtm]

I know one thing that there def not....

[Laurence Hogg]

 

Look at post no 8 though.

 

Alan, this is the clip I referred to:

 

Motor 383..JPG

 

If it was a butty surely the lady wouldn't be stood half way down the cabin side, unless she is stood on a motor the far side? But I cannot make one out. As you say the film is confusing.

 

As I mentioned it is not very clear and the URL gets in the way.

 

Have you a better copy?

She is sitting on the cabin roof as the mop disappears behind her.

[David Mack]

Taken from the war film 15 this shows a engine with an odd pipe on the right. Air intake? where did that come out?

 

 

 

On nationals the water pipe goes across a pipe joining the 2 cylinders then goes up and over near the cabin roof then back down and out the side.

Think Fulbourne still has it like this.

How im putting mine to.

 

Yes here is a similar view of the arrangement on Fulbourne's National (installed by Tim Wood in 1999). The cooling water leaves the cylinder heads via the green manifold on the top, then passes into the red pipe which rises vertically to just below roof level, crosses to the corner of the cabin then drops down parallel to the cabin side, discharging just below gunwale level.

 

[Jrtm]

Yes as it should be. This was due to you being able to walk round the front of the engine and there being no way of getting over/under/around the water pipe if it didnt go up and over.

I know at somepoint i was told it was to keep pressure on the pump but its just simply so the pipe was out the way.

 

Mine currently runs the same and discharges where a gu national would but my pipe dosnt go up just along as i have the bolly fuel tanks still fitted rather than gu corner tanks. I will run it up and around the cabin but im going to have the water pipe come out efectivly backwords so the discharge point will be in the bolly position rather than the national gu position

 

 

 

Yes here is a similar view of the arrangement on Fulbourne's National (installed by Tim Wood in 1999). The cooling water leaves the cylinder heads via the green manifold on the top, then passes into the red pipe which rises vertically to just below roof level, crosses to the corner of the cabin then drops down parallel to the cabin side, discharging just below gunwale level.

 

PICT0192.JPG

Note Fulbournes exhaust runs the wrong way. It should come back and up behind the heads above the gearbox and exit the roof in the middle Edited September 12, 2016 by billybobbooth

[BuckbyLocks]

"Have you a better copy?" Well yes I have. This film has been on here before. There is no doubt about it being Deimos and Vela although the same pair are not used for the whole film. I already identified the Steerer as Betty Snelling and crew Mary Whitley. Monica Martin, aka Frankie seems to have been the third hand at that point but she worked with many of the female crews as well as being captain of Atlas.

[David Mack]

Note Fulbournes exhaust runs the wrong way. It should come back and up behind the heads above the gearbox and exit the roof in the middle

 

Interesting.

 

The exhaust manifold that came with the engine was V shaped, with the exhaust pipe connection coming out midway between the cylinders, and Tim Wood then connected this to silencer and exhaust pipe to fit what I believe is the original roof exit. But in 2010 we found holes in the manifold as below, and had to replace it. The old manifold looks to be a bit of a bodgeup, so may well not be original to the engine.

 

The replacement manifold came from RN and has the exit at the end. Connecting this back to the silencer was easier with the exhaust facing forward.

Edited September 13, 2016 by David Mack

[Jrtm]

Mine exits the side but if you look at most gu boats the exhaust for them was in the middle (i could be wrong but i asumed this was to help avoid bridges as if its on the side going one way or the other or even tunnels the exhaust is right near the side)

 

But most even if you look in the pic comes from the side back and round above the cylinders to behind the cylinder above the gearbox.

 

I suspect the rns would just come round a little and strait up. Are you sure you rn manifold isnt 180 deg out as some of the pipes you can put pointing both ways.

 

Mine is in the bolinder position put the to keep the outside as close looking as it should.

 

Im sure pete or tony will tell you if im wrong.

 

If the hole you have it coming out of is in the middle it maybe the original hole. I think it partly depended on the exhaust stack they put on as some have funnels. In which case it may have come from the side up and to the middle above the engine and out.

David danes night be a good one to look at as he said he still has the national silancer on his. Towy use to but was cut in half in 2010 to find there was nothing left of it inside just rust.

Edited September 13, 2016 by billybobbooth