Jump to content

Featured Posts

Hi all,

 

 

Myself and my partner have recently purchased a converted paddleboat - lovingly described as a 'shed' by our surveyor.
It needs a lot of work, we were present for only the last half hour of the in water, pre-purchase survey as the guy turned up an hour and a half early and we live the opposite end of London. He was a recommendation of the estate agent (we knew at the time this was probably a bad idea but didn't know the first thing about finding someone ourselves) and he seemed like a nice chap. He patiently answered any questions we had and was very honest about the condition of the boat; the hull was fine but everything above that needed work!

 

Fast-forward to now, over a month and a half later and we have found two square feet of rusty sludge in middle of the hull. Floorboards had been covered with insulation and mdf laminate so there was nowhere for any water to go. Unsure of how to proceed, we turned to consult our survey report only to discover it still hadn't been emailed to us. After a few days of nagging, we finally received it earlier today. It is literally ten bullet points that were clearly copied from the surveyor's very basic notes (spelling mistakes and all). Is this what you get for £300??? We were at least expecting thorough ultrasound readings. The report reads '5. Hull 4.7 to water line good to 4.5 good' Is this typical?

 

Would be grateful for any info!

 

Thanks,

 

Naive


Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I were having a survey I would certainly expect something far more detailed than that. However there are a couple of things in your post that worry me slightly. You say the "estate agent" which implies you bought the craft from an agency dealing in house sales rather than boats - if true then I guess this is sold as a houseboat on a London mooring? You also say it was an in-water survey - how on earth would any surveyor know what the state of the hull is without looking at it out of the water?

 

When you say you've found some rusty sludge, where was this? Do you mean you've now lifted the flooring material to find this? Did the surveyor not look under the floor?

 

There may be nothing seriously wrong, but alarm bells are ringing. You need to give further more detailed information for any better advice though: e.g. paddle boat implies it is pretty old, probably riveted iron hull.

 

Tam

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am no expert but during my search for my own narrowboat I have been presented with a few survey reports and they have been several pages thick !!

 

I would have expected more information than you appear to have been supplied with.....have you tried asking for a more detailed report ?

 

It looks or sounds like the agent and surveyor have a nice little earner going !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it were me I would not pay this surveyor, he clearly did not do a proper survey. I would not pay a surveyor until I got a copy of the survey and it looked credible. Did you check his qualifications? Usually a report is 3-5 pages with diagrams showing where the weakest point of the hull are and containing a recommendation of any fixing needed. A surveyor should have a least a small craft diploma from IIMS.

 

Anyway, take the sludge out slowly and see what the hull is like below it; have a bilge pump ready.

Edited by Tiggs
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi again,

 

thanks for the fast replies!

We bought the boat through a company that sell boats on behalf of their owners, I'm not sure the agents title would be... marine merchant? boat dealer? So it wasn't from a normal estate agent, sorry for the confusion.

 

Yes you're right to assume it's old: 1989, converted much later to a houseboat - initially steel and then it looks like the interior was extended in wood, leaving less decking at the bough. We took the floor up and half of it had lovely iroko floorboards that are just in need of a good sand and varnish, the other half a random mixture of decking, rotten floorboards and plywood so far gone it literally melted away as we tried to pull it up and chuck it. Underneath this entire section it was unsurprisingly very damp. The floor is supported by steel bars that run the length of the hull and with steel bars running perpendicular across the width. So it looks like kind of 'troughs'. Some water has got in at some point and sat in the middle 'trough'. Sorry I'm probably painting a rubbish picture, I don't know any of the correct terms!

It doesn't currently have bilge pumps, I think this is because it's designed to be dry and someone explained to me that bilge pumps need to be submerged to function? It's obvious no one has ever treated the interior of the hull with anything at all. We had a bit of a panic when we first discovered the sludge but have since scraped it away and are letting it dry out for the time being. We will then treat it - I've read another post that recommends using Fertan? We will deffo be sealing it with something once it's dry before we cover the floor again.

 

As we are doing a complete re-fit of the interior we are going to add vents and a viewing hatch to check the hull has no water sitting in it in future. Seems like we've ended up with a dodgy boat and a dodgy survey - can anyone recommend anyone decent in London for future use?

 

My partner's father is a traditional boat builder (big wooden boats) who is helping us where he can but doesn't know a great deal about steel hulls. He has advised saving up to get her taken out of the water and plated in any dodgy areas.

 

I have just emailed the survey company too so thanks for the advice!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe after telling you it was a "shed", he didn't expect you to buy it. In which case he may not have thought it necessary to expand too much further beyond 10 bullet points of explanation? You'd had your 300 quids worth of good advice, supported by sufficient written evidence for you to reclaim any deposit and walk away from the deal, hence a bit pointless him spending another half day crafting a full written report which would simply be binned. Just a thought. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it was a hull survey and the hull is alright, I'm not sure what would need to be detailed, over the ultrasound readings taken. If it were a full survey (I can't tell from the price) and he has not listed/detailed the faults with the rest of the boat, in a way which can be shown to a boatyard/boat mechanic and they give a reasonably accurate estimate of the cost to repair, then I'd say you've been given too little information.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He told you it was a shed and you still bought it, lol.

 

"We were at least expecting thorough ultrasound readings"

How could he of done the most important part of the hull when it was in the water?

How were you expecting him to check below the water line for steel thickness, pitting, base plate, weld integrity?

Edited by PD1964
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You never took it out the water to do the ultrasound readings?????? I missed that bit from the OP - my understanding was the vast majority of testers need the boat removed from the water (and the surface cleaned up somewhat, where the probe goes) to properly take a reading. I have vaguely heard about certain testers which can get an accurate reading while in the water, though.

 

Sounds like something is far from right in this survey/subsequent purchase!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are new to canal boats and were given the impression it was possible to conduct an in-water survey that included data regarding the hull's thickness. Not ideal, but we were on a tight time scale and knew she was blacked 5 months before, so assumed anything obvious would have been picked up then. We feel able to deal with the rust situation and I was more concerned about the survey report. We did have the survey before we bought the vessel and knocked a good few grand off the asking price as result of it. Then why complain? Simply because I had looked at several 'sample reports' on various websites and was expecting something similar, although I felt I better check here as this seems the best place to get decent advice.

We are not keen to adopt a 'traditional' NB look and are fine with the sheddyness - we are very handy and like a challenge!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks to me as though you've been had over royally.

 

The more expensive the lesson, the more thoroughly you learn from it (in my personal experience!)

 

Chalk it up to experience, assuming you can't unwind the deal, and digest the following lessons:

 

 

1) Don't buy a boat without a survey unless you can afford to throw away the price of the boat.

 

2) Be skeptical about everything an estate agent (or boat selling agent) tells you.

 

3) Independently check out everything you are told.

 

4) Don't buy a boat. Period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

None of the above helps you today, my advice is that if you can not go back to the seller and work something out, then get the boat lifted out the water and get another survey done, being present for all of it.

 

Let the forum know where you are and they may be able to suggest a known surveyor who will not rip you off, get a full survey and if you have concerns about the hull then get an ultrasound done, then work out what you will do if the survey presents problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good advice from Dave above.

 

Thing is, 'advisers' of all sorts all have their own agenda so the only way really, is to learn properly about boats yourself.

 

This forum is full of threads by people who had boats unnecessarily and expensively over-plated simply because their surveyor said it 'needed' to be done. Surveyors are good and helpful if you instruct the right one well. Otherwise they can have you spending money hand over fist for reasons you don't quite understand...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say you just have to get on with it now, as I doubt you will get any joy from the seller as you had a survey done and as a result the price was reduced and you bought.

The surveyor should of told you the limitations with an in water survey, he would of not ripped up the floor looking for water as the seller would not of allowed it, as it would cause damage and the boat is still theirs and you could of walked away leaving them to make good.

It's a houseboat now so probably bears little in common with your traditional narrowboat, has it an engine, is it sailable or just berthed up on 240 landline? have the previous owners just tried to extend the living area with various build on's? as the surveyor called it a shed.

It looks like it is going to cost you money, you have no experience so be careful not to go at it like a bull in a china shop and start ripping everything out even the good stuff, as it will cost you a lot of money.

I take it you bought it to live on or to do up and sell on at a profit? no matter what you are looking at you'll be spending money no matter what.

Edited by PD1964
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are new to canal boats and were given the impression it was possible to conduct an in-water survey that included data regarding the hull's thickness. Not ideal, but we were on a tight time scale and knew she was blacked 5 months before, so assumed anything obvious would have been picked up then. We feel able to deal with the rust situation and I was more concerned about the survey report. We did have the survey before we bought the vessel and knocked a good few grand off the asking price as result of it. Then why complain? Simply because I had looked at several 'sample reports' on various websites and was expecting something similar, although I felt I better check here as this seems the best place to get decent advice.

We are not keen to adopt a 'traditional' NB look and are fine with the sheddyness - we are very handy and like a challenge!

 

OK, there is good news and bad news.

 

The good news is that rust water in the bilges often LOOKS a lot worse than it actually is You may have no problem here.

 

The bad news is that despite having a survey done, you may have lulled yourself into a false sense of security by assuming everything was OK, and everybody is honest.

 

You say that it was blacked 5 months ago, so you assume anything major was picked up then. Very possibly something major was picked up, and the previous owner concluded that his best option to try and salvage something from a boat that was in very poor condition was to slap some blacking on, and hope for a buyer who didn't enquire too closely about condition.

Edited by mayalld
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A bit off topic but I am intrigued by the description paddle boat and 1989. There have been a very few paddle driven canal boats but by and large they pre-date 1989 by over 10 years. 1889 might refer to a converted wide beam paddle steamer and I can not see a weed cutter being suitable for livaboard conversion.

 

I do not want to worry the OP but a boat net to mine was blacked and put back in the water. We assume the pressure wash dislodged a small area of rust and the blacking sealed the hole - for a while. I am afraid the boat sat on the bottom and a sit wa sin a shallow marina and it was raise within a hour or so it seems to have dried out OK.

 

I fear getting it lifted and surveyed properly is the best thing to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, 1) don't panic, even if there is a steel problem steel is eminently repairable, unlike wood etc. 2) you still have 90% of what you think you purchased even if there is a problem.3) The surveyor is not a very good one but £300 is not a lot in the great scheme of things. When we have bought houses and had them 'surveyed' the surveyor has never looked in the loft so rot/worm would never show up, nor has a surveyor looked at drains/electrics/gas/boundaries or in fact much at all. We now only use a structural engineer cos that's the stuff that matters. If I was buying a boat now I would only have the hull surveyed and even then the surveyor will not lift flooring as it is often virtually impossible. Getting stuff surveyed can (not always) be a bit of a scam, people never get a car 'surveyed' and they can be more expensive than a run of the mill boat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, 1) don't panic, even if there is a steel problem steel is eminently repairable, unlike wood etc. 2) you still have 90% of what you think you purchased even if there is a problem.3) The surveyor is not a very good one but £300 is not a lot in the great scheme of things. When we have bought houses and had them 'surveyed' the surveyor has never looked in the loft so rot/worm would never show up, nor has a surveyor looked at drains/electrics/gas/boundaries or in fact much at all. We now only use a structural engineer cos that's the stuff that matters. If I was buying a boat now I would only have the hull surveyed and even then the surveyor will not lift flooring as it is often virtually impossible. Getting stuff surveyed can (not always) be a bit of a scam, people never get a car 'surveyed' and they can be more expensive than a run of the mill boat.

 

That sounds like a valuation survey for a mortgage.

 

The main point of the valuation survey is to protect the interests of the lender, not to discover minor repairable defects (these are covered in the less-than-100% loan to value ratio). The main purpose is to make sure there actually IS a house roughly matching the description, and the lender isn't being invited to lend on non-existent security!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi again!

 

thanks for the replies, just a quick update:

 

had a boatbuilder come and look at the hull; he said it wasn't anything too shocking but did need to have the rust treated so we are taking up the floor everywhere and sorting that out.

 

 

we have also found a big slab of concrete near the centre of the boat which has 1984 engraved in it - so probably not a 1989 craft then!!!! My partner suggested this could be the old hearth for the steam boiler. We think the newer half of the boat used to be open-top, hence the different material. It's a really interesting rust bucket I have to say!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.