The Practicalities of Life Aboard a Broads Cruiser

[Naughty Cal]

We have 2 100 watt flat stick-on panels.

 

I've not got exact numbers, but they're enough to run a 12v fridge between about May-September, and can generally keep up with the rest of the usage throughout the year- LED lights, water and shower pump, phone charging- without having to run the generator, unless we've had several overcast days in a row.

 

We are pretty minimal users of power, though.

We have 2 100 watt flat stick-on panels.

 

I've not got exact numbers, but they're enough to run a 12v fridge between about May-September, and can generally keep up with the rest of the usage throughout the year- LED lights, water and shower pump, phone charging- without having to run the generator, unless we've had several overcast days in a row.

 

We are pretty minimal users of power, though.

Thanks for that.

 

Do you happen to know how much power your fridge uses?

 

We will be running two fridges, well a fridge/freezer in the utility room and a separate fridge in the galley both 12v but at 2.1ah average for the fridge freezer and 1.6ah average for the fridge that's an average 89ah each day just from the fridges!

 

Of course this won't be a problem while we are in the marina plugged in but we want to make sure we are fairly self sufficient and not reliant on running the engine every day when away from the mooring.

[Phil Ambrose]

Thanks for that.

 

Do you happen to know how much power your fridge uses?

 

We will be running two fridges, well a fridge/freezer in the utility room and a separate fridge in the galley both 12v but at 2.1ah average for the fridge freezer and 1.6ah average for the fridge that's an average 89ah each day just from the fridges!

 

Of course this won't be a problem while we are in the marina plugged in but we want to make sure we are fairly self sufficient and not reliant on running the engine every day when away from the mooring.

We run a 12v larder fridge and a 12v freezer and that comes out at near 80ah a day, 3 x100w panels take care of things for 6 months of the year but output from the panels declines from now on to not a lot mid winter before climbing again.

Have you considered the size of your bank? it can be useful to have somewhere to store extra power, particularly in the summer so when you get dull days it won't be an issue.

Phil

[Naughty Cal]

We run a 12v larder fridge and a 12v freezer and that comes out at near 80ah a day, 3 x100w panels take care of things for 6 months of the year but output from the panels declines from now on to not a lot mid winter before climbing again.

Have you considered the size of your bank? it can be useful to have somewhere to store extra power, particularly in the summer so when you get dull days it won't be an issue.

Phil

We were discussing this last night. A lot will depend on the location of the battery bank and what we can fit in the space but ideally we would like to have 6No. 6V Trojan T105 or similar.

 

These would then be charged via the solar, alternator and suitably sized battery charger when on our berth.

[Phil Ambrose]

We were discussing this last night. A lot will depend on the location of the battery bank and what we can fit in the space but ideally we would like to have 6No. 6V Trojan T105 or similar.

 

These would then be charged via the solar, alternator and suitably sized battery charger when on our berth.

Sounds good, It's a bit galling to see your solar controller flicking on and off because your bank is full when you could usefully tuck the energy away for a dull day.

Phil

[Catnip King]

I would like to pick your brains again guys if you don't mind.

 

We intend to install 4No. 100 watt solar panels on the roof of the Broads boat. My question to you is what sort of power generation should we expect from this set up?

 

Obviously there are many variables but a rough idea is all that we are looking for for say January, April, July, September.

 

The panels will be fixed so not adjustable.

I had that on my last boat 4 x 100watt panels fixed in place. I didn't really get any power from them until late april and then continued until october. Then it was so minimal it isn't worth mentioning. During the good months though it kept us fully charged and we used a fair bit of power!

Edited September 13, 2016 by Catnip King

[Naughty Cal]

I had that on my last boat 4 x 100watt panels fixed in place. I didn't really get any power from them until late april and then continued until october. Then it was so minimal it isn't worth mentioning. During the good months though it kept us fully charged and we used a fair bit of power!

Thanks. Just the sort of info I was after.

[GoodGurl]

i would suggest you get a bigger mppt controller than you need just incase you want to add more panels at a later date.

[Alan de Enfield]

I would like to pick your brains again guys if you don't mind.

 

We intend to install 4No. 100 watt solar panels on the roof of the Broads boat. My question to you is what sort of power generation should we expect from this set up?

 

Obviously there are many variables but a rough idea is all that we are looking for for say January, April, July, September.

 

The panels will be fixed so not adjustable.

 

Just for information.

 

We have 1x 170w 'low light' Bimble Solar panel.

According to the Solar Controller / Monitor :

 

In the 24 days of May it produced 7.11Kwh which (at 13.5v) equates to 526Ah (or 22Ah per day)

 

Between 3/6/16 & 3/8/16 it produced 24.7KwH

 

In the 37 Days of Aug / Early Sept it produced 14.93KwH which (at 13.5v) equates to 1105Ah (30Ah per day)

 

I don't think the figures are much help to you.

 

It would have been much higher but the batteries were always full and solar contributing nothing.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Just for information.

 

We have 1x 170w 'low light' Bimble Solar panel.

According to the Solar Controller / Monitor :

 

In the 24 days of May it produced 7.11Kwh which (at 13.5v) equates to 526Ah (or 22Ah per day)

 

Between 3/6/16 & 3/8/16 it produced 24.7KwH

 

In the 37 Days of Aug / Early Sept it produced 14.93KwH which (at 13.5v) equates to 1105Ah (30Ah per day)

 

I don't think the figures are much help to you.

 

It would have been much higher but the batteries were always full and solar contributing nothing.

Interesting point about them not doing anything when the batteries are full. Hadn't really though about them being sat idle.

 

I suppose we could get into the habit of turning the battery charger off when we leave the boat to go to work during the summer months at least.

[Alan de Enfield]

Interesting point about them not doing anything when the batteries are full. Hadn't really though about them being sat idle.

 

I suppose we could get into the habit of turning the battery charger off when we leave the boat to go to work during the summer months at least.

 

As you know we are marina based and have not had the battery charger on since April when I installed the Solar.

 

In fact the only reason the 'mains' is plugged in is for the immersion heater and freezer*

 

* Freezer runs off inverter when cruising.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Naughty Cal]

 

As you know we are marina based and have not had the battery charger on since April when I installed the Solar.

 

In fact the only reason the 'mains' is plugged in is for the immersion heater and freezer*

 

* Freezer runs off inverter when cruising.

Very interesting indeed thank you.

[Naughty Cal]

Next question if I may. The subject this time is heating.

 

Our primary source of heating will be blown air diesel heating, much the same as we have now on NC but with a bigger unit and more outlets. Now we have never had a problem with the heating on NC but living on board we would want to have a back up plan for if any problems did arise with the blown air heating.

 

So what are our options?

 

A solid fuel stove is out of the question due to space constraints.

[gazza]

Spare unit ready to fit would be the best bet,

Oil filled rads when on shoreline work very well.

[Naughty Cal]

Spare unit ready to fit would be the best bet,

Oil filled rads when on shoreline work very well.

Hadn't even thought of something as simple as that

[Phil Ambrose]

Next question if I may. The subject this time is heating.

 

Our primary source of heating will be blown air diesel heating, much the same as we have now on NC but with a bigger unit and more outlets. Now we have never had a problem with the heating on NC but living on board we would want to have a back up plan for if any problems did arise with the blown air heating.

 

So what are our options?

 

A solid fuel stove is out of the question due to space constraints.

Hmm, (thinks hard) I can only say what we had which was a Mikuni but we soon found that we in common with just about every other live aboard found had "issues" mainly because all these types of heaters were nor intended for the amount of work that we asked of them. We then installed a Propex as a back up and eventually I made space for a drip feed Glembring which us almost identical to a Lockgate Reflex. That was the best thing I ever did. No power needed and a very small foot print, I also made room for a dedicated custom made fuel tank

Phil

Edited September 15, 2016 by Phil Ambrose

[Alan de Enfield]

We have an 8Kw Blown Air Eberspacher on the cruiser - BEWARE - it takes a lot of electricity. It uses a CONTINUOUS 10 amps (so 240Ah per day) which is one of the reasons why we have 6x 230Ah batteries.

 

It is primarily the fan that takes the power. When it is cold the fan is running almost continuously even on 'low' setting.

 

Fuel consumption High = 1.04 litres per hour, Low = 0.4 litres per hour

Heat output High = 8Kw, Low = 3.5Kw

Air movement = 310Kg per hour

"Electric Power" = 115w continuous, 330w on start up

 

We have 6 'outlets'

1 in forward cabin

1 in forward bathroom

1 in dining room / kitchen

1 in saloon

1 in rear cabin

1 in rear bathroom

Edited September 15, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Naughty Cal]

We have an 8Kw Blown Air Eberspacher on the cruiser - BEWARE - it takes a lot of electricity. It uses a CONTINUOUS 10 amps (so 240Ah per day) which is one of the reasons why we have 6x 230Ah batteries.

 

It is primarily the fan that takes the power. When it is cold the fan is running almost continuously even on 'low' setting.

 

Fuel consumption High = 1.04 litres per hour, Low = 0.4 litres per hour

Heat output High = 8Kw, Low = 3.5Kw

Air movement = 310Kg per hour

"Electric Power" = 115w continuous, 330w on start up

 

We have 6 'outlets'

1 in forward cabin

1 in forward bathroom

1 in dining room / kitchen

1 in saloon

1 in rear cabin

1 in rear bathroom

We were looking at the Webasto Airtop Evo 5500. Technical Spec below:

 

https://www.webasto.com/fileadmin/webasto_files/documents/international/hd/data-sheet/defense/heating-systems/defense-air-top-evo-3900-5500.pdf

 

Fuel consumption and electrical demands are not as high as the unit you have but will still be a big consideration.

Hmm, (thinks hard) I can only say what we had which was a Mikuni but we soon found that we in common with just about every other live aboard found had "issues" mainly because all these types of heaters were nor intended for the amount of work that we asked of them. We then installed a Propex as a back up and eventually I made space for a drip feed Glembring which us almost identical to a Lockgate Reflex. That was the best thing I ever did. No power needed and a very small foot print, I also made room for a dedicated custom made fuel tank

Phil

They look interesting.

 

Would take some figuring out as to where to route the flue so as we could still slide the roof though.

 

Something else to consider thanks.

[Alan de Enfield]

We were looking at the Webasto Airtop Evo 5500. Technical Spec below:

 

https://www.webasto.com/fileadmin/webasto_files/documents/international/hd/data-sheet/defense/heating-systems/defense-air-top-evo-3900-5500.pdf

 

Fuel consumption and electrical demands are not as high as the unit you have but will still be a big consideration.

 

 

We had a 5Kw on the Narrowboat - it was sufficient, but I am not sure it would do much on a 40+ foot x 12 foot, 'lots of windows' GRP boards cruiser. Maybe check what they are typically fitted with or speak to any hire companies that operate them during the Winter.

 

It would be a shame to spend £1000+ installing something that was not up-to-the-job and you subsequently had to fit a larger unit.

 

The 5.5Kw unit still uses 95 watts (8 amps) on 'high'.

I would guess it would operate on 'high' much of the time because of the open space / volume / glass on the boat

 

We are looking at fitting 2x 5.5Kw units into the Cat (one in each hull)

In theory one unit should be sufficient for the 'volume' but the boat manufacturers said we would need a minimum of two 4Kw units, and if staying in Northern UK waters, maybe a third. (one in each hull and one in the bridge)

 

You can actually get a combined water and blown air eberspacher which is 'better' in that you have continuous hot water for showers, washing etc, can have radiators and have heat exchangers with hidden fans on each 'blown-air' outlet. Individual fans can be switched off so if you are not using say a bedroom, the fan is switched off saving electricity and diesel fuel. You can have radiators where you want ie in the bathrooms.

 

How will you heat your water if you only have blown-air heating ?

 

We are looking at this dual system for the Cat,

Edited September 15, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Athy]

I have come late to this thread, as we were away on holiday when it first started. Just to comment on a couple of your earlier points:

- Nanni engines. These are widely used on continental (certainly on French) hire craft. There must be a reason for that! In our experience they are responsive and have ample poke, though as we have only used them for a week at a time when hiring, I can't really comment on their long-term reliability. But then, ask yourself why hire fleets like them.

 

- Renting out a property: need not lead to tears and confrontations. All you do is appoint a reputable agent to run things. He'll select tenants, collect rents and act as a buffer between you and the tenants if a problem arises. The bad news: he'll take 10% of the rent. The good news: you get the other 90%. We have done this for ten years now with a very few hitches (one tenant left unexpectedly, but had paid up to date, and the agents found a new tenant within 2 weeks, so we did not lose a vast amount of income).

 

Note that your rental property need not be your former home. Ours aren't, they're in a town 30 miles away where housing is a little cheaper to buy.

[Naughty Cal]

 

We had a 5Kw on the Narrowboat - it was sufficient, but I am not sure it would do much on a 40+ foot x 12 foot, 'lots of windows' GRP boards cruiser. Maybe check what they are typically fitted with or speak to any hire companies that operate them during the Winter.

 

It would be a shame to spend £1000+ installing something that was not up-to-the-job and you subsequently had to fit a larger unit.

 

The 5.5Kw unit still uses 95 watts (8 amps) on 'high'.

I would guess it would operate on 'high' much of the time because of the open space / volume / glass on the boat

 

We are looking at fitting 2x 5.5Kw units into the Cat (one in each hull)

In theory one unit should be sufficient for the 'volume' but the boat manufacturers said we would need a minimum of two 4Kw units, and if staying in Northern UK waters, maybe a third. (one in each hull and one in the bridge)

 

You can actually get a combined water and blown air eberspacher which is 'better' in that you have continuous hot water for showers, washing etc, can have radiators and have heat exchangers with hidden fans on each 'blown-air' outlet. Individual fans can be switched off so if you are not using say a bedroom, the fan is switched off saving electricity and diesel fuel. You can have radiators where you want ie in the bathrooms.

 

How will you heat your water if you only have blown-air heating ?

 

We are looking at this dual system for the Cat,

The boat we are interested in and her sister vessels are currently fitted with a 3.5kw blown air heater. But they are not hired out in the dead of winter.

 

Water heating will be via an immersion when plugged in or running the engine. Not ideal I know but the engines heat the water pretty quickly on these things and putting extra hours on the engine is hardly going to hurt it given the hire hours it will already have!

[cereal tiller]

The boat we are interested in and her sister vessels are currently fitted with a 3.5kw blown air heater. But they are not hired out in the dead of winter.

 

Water heating will be via an immersion when plugged in or running the engine. Not ideal I know but the engines heat the water pretty quickly on these things and putting extra hours on the engine is hardly going to hurt it given the hire hours it will already have!

With any luck the blown air heater will be a Mikuni MY30,those units are no longer available new but spares are still around and not ridiculously expensive.

 

They also have a powerful fan which is a little noisy on full heat(45 Watts) but quiet on half heat(24 Watts)

 

It is able to provide 3000 hours running between annual services,the other makes require more frequent service intervals.

 

CT

[gazza]

For blown air we have one of these.

http://www.kurandamarine.co.uk/40dt-diesel-heater

Simple & robust but very dear. Mine came out of a boiler at work. Over kill on a 27' Elysian.

 

For hot water we have a Webasto TTC that is currently being a bit sulky.

[Naughty Cal]

For blown air we have one of these.

http://www.kurandamarine.co.uk/40dt-diesel-heater

Simple & robust but very dear. Mine came out of a boiler at work. Over kill on a 27' Elysian.

 

For hot water we have a Webasto TTC that is currently being a bit sulky.

Our current boat is blown air heating and hot water from immersion or the engine so we know the limitations of the set up. For leisure use it isn't really a big problem, admittedly not liveaboard use though.

[gazza]

Our current boat is blown air heating and hot water from immersion or the engine so we know the limitations of the set up. For leisure use it isn't really a big problem, admittedly not liveaboard use though.

We too have hot via engine or immersion.

 

It depends on how often you are away from shoreline.

 

We got by using a Honda EU20 for battery charging and immersion while on a 10 day cruise - do miss the TT at the moment, gives a toasty warm engine too

[Naughty Cal]

We too have hot via engine or immersion.

 

It depends on how often you are away from shoreline.

 

We got by using a Honda EU20 for battery charging and immersion while on a 10 day cruise - do miss the TT at the moment, gives a toasty warm engine too

For the first 12-18 months we will be marina based whilst we get the boat as we want it so not a big problem.

 

After that we intend to be away from the marina for 3-4 months during the summer, cruising within a range that is within a reasonable distance from our jobs in Sheffield. Luckily we have plenty of waterways to choose from that would give about an hours commute. This is when the hot water will be more of an issue as we will be away from the boat all day Monday to Friday not getting back until around 7pm. It would have to be a case of get home, fire the engine up.