Another Boat Sunk In A Lock

[cuthound]

How do you know the theories have little basis on the real reasons?

 

Just a post designed to stir up trouble, in my opinion.

Gurl's intuition? ☺

[Paul C]

You didnt ask that you asked why it sank.

 

Apparently sueb knows why it (took on water and thus) sank?

[mayalld]

 

Brilliant. But.....why did it take on water?

Because the water it had already taken on caused major hull openings to go below the surface.

[alan_fincher]

 

Apparently sueb knows why it (took on water and thus) sank?

 

Sue has repeated elsewhere the story that it was "prop failure".

 

I don't buy this, unless something very exceptional happened, (like something prop related punching a hole through very weak hull plating).

 

I really can't see anything that could happen to prop itself, (or even prop shaft) that would inundate a boat anything like as fast has been claimed.

 

To be clear, I am talking about the earlier stages of the sinking, not what is shown in the video where it went down. The issue is how did that much water get in that fast in the first place. Once it had, and someone started shooting that video, the results were inevitable, and, (to my mind), not at all surprising.

[ditchcrawler]

 

Sue has repeated elsewhere the story that it was "prop failure".

 

I don't buy this, unless something very exceptional happened, (like something prop related punching a hole through very weak hull plating).

 

I really can't see anything that could happen to prop itself, (or even prop shaft) that would inundate a boat anything like as fast has been claimed.

 

To be clear, I am talking about the earlier stages of the sinking, not what is shown in the video where it went down. The issue is how did that much water get in that fast in the first place. Once it had, and someone started shooting that video, the results were inevitable, and, (to my mind), not at all surprising.

That is what Rob from BSS said on Faecbook I think.

 

This is what he said

"A friend of the owner has posted on the K&A FB group after the incident that it was sudden propshaft failure. This was done to stop speculation as to the cause such as cilling or getting caught on the gates or sides of the lock. "To save anymore speculation - .... [they are] experienced boaters from a [] Boat club. Suspect prop shaft broke (loud bang heard) started taking on water owner stepped off & boat sank in just 18 secs. No Fault of owners. Awaiting recovery from RCR now. Hope this clears things up.""

Edited August 20, 2016 by ditchcrawler

[alan_fincher]

That is what Rob from BSS said on Faecbook I think.

 

This is what he said

 

"A friend of the owner has posted on the K&A FB group after the incident that it was sudden propshaft failure. This was done to stop speculation as to the cause such as cilling or getting caught on the gates or sides of the lock. "To save anymore speculation - .... [they are] experienced boaters from a [] Boat club. Suspect prop shaft broke (loud bang heard) started taking on water owner stepped off & boat sank in just 18 secs. No Fault of owners. Awaiting recovery from RCR now. Hope this clears things up."

That doesn't square with this recently posted in the thread about that sinking, though, and the poster here seems to have information from the owners....

 

It was a weed hatch issue as the boat is now back on our island ,the unauthorised raising was from some of the colourful chaps from Tesco mooring in Reading after salvage

Police were called and as its a grey area only stopped them on threat of criminal damage to lock ladders used to strap boat up for raising attempt

The owner called Police on 4 occasions where peeps were inside the boat rooting for anything they could find ,damaged rudder and props haft in there attempts to raise it in there Micky mouse manner

The owner has just had a health issue and was coming back from a few easy days on the Thames to recuperate,not sure if they will continue boating as the hassle with scumbag twats looting and damaging the boat may be the straw that breaks the camels back

Really nice couple who are having a rotten run of luck

My money is on the weed hatch, and I do wonder if the big bang" was the engine "hydraulicing" because it had alreay gone far enough under for the air intake to be sucking in water.

[cuthound]

That is what Rob from BSS said on Faecbook I think.

 

This is what he said

"A friend of the owner has posted on the K&A FB group after the incident that it was sudden propshaft failure. This was done to stop speculation as to the cause such as cilling or getting caught on the gates or sides of the lock. "To save anymore speculation - .... [they are] experienced boaters from a [] Boat club. Suspect prop shaft broke (loud bang heard) started taking on water owner stepped off & boat sank in just 18 secs. No Fault of owners. Awaiting recovery from RCR now. Hope this clears things up.""

According to JV44 in this thread (post #64) in the "Stoppages" section,

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=86432&page=4#entry1868792

 

it was water ingress through the weedhatch that caused the sinking.

 

Edited to add JV44'a name.

Edited August 20, 2016 by cuthound

[Paul C]

 

Sue has repeated elsewhere the story that it was "prop failure".

 

I don't buy this, unless something very exceptional happened, (like something prop related punching a hole through very weak hull plating).

 

I really can't see anything that could happen to prop itself, (or even prop shaft) that would inundate a boat anything like as fast has been claimed.

 

To be clear, I am talking about the earlier stages of the sinking, not what is shown in the video where it went down. The issue is how did that much water get in that fast in the first place. Once it had, and someone started shooting that video, the results were inevitable, and, (to my mind), not at all surprising.

 

Wacker Quacker (the DUKW which sank in Salthouse Dock) sank due to a "prop failure", or more accurately it got a tyre stuck round the prop, which tore off a support between the prop tube and the hull, which initiated its sinking (and it didn't have enough reserve bouyancy as per regulations). I don't know the construction of the particular boat in the lock, or its hull condition/corrosion, but I wonder if its a similar thing due to poor structural condition of the metalwork - something fouls the prop, the prop tube rips away from the hull causing a loud bang and a big hole, the inevitible occurs minutes/seconds later.

 

What's clear is that something happened in between the owners buying the boat and the bow disappearing into the depth of the lock water - it would be handy for others to know precisely, so lessons can be learned.

[GUMPY]

My speculation is that if the loud bang was at the begining, it was a lump of wood or breeze block between the prop and the weedhatch causing the weedhatch cover to fail.

[MtB]

My speculation is that if the loud bang was at the begining, it was a lump of wood or breeze block between the prop and the weedhatch causing the weedhatch cover to fail.

 

We don't know when the bang was, do we?

 

But yes if at the start of it all going wrong, I agree with your hypothesis.

 

I'm deeply troubled by the objections posted to speculation about the cause though. Why should we not try to figure out what happened?

 

Learning from other people's misfortune is essential in my opinion. Failing to learn from disasters like this would be to make their loss futile in my view.

[RLWP]

I'm deeply troubled by the objections posted to speculation about the cause though. Why should we not try to figure out what happened?

 

Quite right Mike

 

I think a meteor struck and made a hole in the hull

 

or they ran over a discarded WW1 mine

 

or someone had dropped a six foot metal spike into the lock that speared the hull

 

or the weedhatch instantaneously moved somewhere else in accordance with quantum physics

 

All these theories are adequately covered by the facts that we know

 

Richard

[Paul C]

If a unicorn tripped and fell, could its horn make a hole in a particularly weak boat hull?

[RLWP]

If a unicorn tripped and fell, could its horn make a hole in a particularly weak boat hull?

Yes, especially a carbide tipped unicorn

 

Richard

[magnetman]

Elum tube failure? It looks like a cruiser stern and most of them have a diesel tank at the back but if the elum tube (tube sorrounding the rudder post) was badly corroded a major impact to the rudder (block of wood in prop during heavy reversing?) Could possibly cause a fairly large hole to open up in the bottom of the boat.

Speculation as much as the rest of the thread

[Robbo]

Learning from other people's misfortune is essential in my opinion. Failing to learn from disasters like this would be to make their loss futile in my view.

Quite agree too, there's quite a few ways to sink a boat especially in a lock and discussing the issues and how to avoid may help others to avoid a similar disaster.

[JV44]

It was a weed hatch issue and no bulkhead from engine into main boat not helping once the lid had come off the hatch ,boat is now back at its mooring on our island

[ditchcrawler]

According to JV44 in this thread (post #64) in the "Stoppages" section,

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=86432&page=4#entry1868792

 

it was water ingress through the weedhatch that caused the sinking.

 

Edited to add JV44'a name.

I wouldn't disagree with that. But Rod's comments were in the same thread as Sue's on FB and the question was how did she know.

[Robbo]

Could the bang be the welding on the weed hatch that keeps the lid on?

[frangar]

It was a weed hatch issue and no bulkhead from engine into main boat not helping once the lid had come off the hatch ,boat is now back at its mooring on our island

Without wishing to intrude on what must be a stressful time for all concerned are there any clues as to why the lid came off??...

 

I'm sure many of us have come close to disaster at some time or another and it's only by good grace that we haven't suffered the same fate.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[magnetman]

It does seem odd as usually a weed hatch is quite a hefty item and relatively difficult to remove and if it is put back in place even if not clamped down it will still resist water ingress to an extent.

 

I suppose if a weed hatch were removed and not replaced at all before operating the engine that could cause major problems but I would not expect anyone to do that.

[RLWP]

It does seem odd as usually a weed hatch is quite a hefty item and relatively difficult to remove and if it is put back in place even if not clamped down it will still resist water ingress to an extent.

I suppose if a weed hatch were removed and not replaced at all before operating the engine that could cause major problems but I would not expect anyone to do that.

Not all weedhatches are the same

 

Richard

[magnetman]

Good point

[GUMPY]

It does seem odd as usually a weed hatch is quite a hefty item and relatively difficult to remove and if it is put back in place even if not clamped down it will still resist water ingress to an extent.

 

I suppose if a weed hatch were removed and not replaced at all before operating the engine that could cause major problems but I would not expect anyone to do that.

I have on Loddon, went for a day or two with no plate...............top of weed hatch is at deck level

[alan_fincher]

It does seem odd as usually a weed hatch is quite a hefty item and relatively difficult to remove and if it is put back in place even if not clamped down it will still resist water ingress to an extent.

 

Chalice had a weed hatch cover that was literally a piece of oblong 6mm steel plate, with no additions.

 

It was held down by one locking bar with a screw thread that bore down on the middle of said cover plate.

 

If you had forgotten to replace and tighten the locking bar then I don't think the hatch would have stayed in situ very long at all.

[magnetman]

I'v only seen the type which had a top plate and two vertical plates dropping down to another horizontal plate which is in line with the counter. I've not looked carefully at a great number of narrow boats out of water or with weed hatch out to be fair. A single plate weed hatch as described does seem to be a bad design to me.