Best engine to replace BMC

[Peter Thornton]

I'm a member of a share syndicate with one of the original Ownership boats. We have remained faithful to our BMC engine but fear that the time may be approaching when we need to think about a replacement.

We need something that is suitable for shared ownership, i.e. lots of different users and a succession of engineers - as we move around bases.

Shortlist is currently Beta, Nanni and Canaline - plus the alternative of another BMC.

The boat is 58 ft and is mainly used on canals but with occasional river useage.

I'd really appreciate any opinions, preferably based upon experience!

Also, RCR offer an engine swap service. Has anyone used them, and if so what was the experience like?

Thanks in advance.

Peter

Edited August 12, 2016 by Peter Thornton

[KroSha]

I once asked Keith Duffy what he'd put in a boat if he was building a new one, from a maintenance/reliability POV. He voted Beta.

[FadeToScarlet]

Another BMC would be easiest and cheapest, literally unbolt the manifold, propshaft, cooling, cables and control cables, hoik it out and drop the new one in, then reconnect

[Richard T]

Get the BMC rebuilt. A share boat I was part of has had this done recently and it is a great success and cost effective.

[Nightwatch]

Beta have a good reputation. They are in lots of boats and hire fleets.

 

We have a Barras Shire. Not had a problem with it. Oil and filter changes done regularly. Been in the boat over twelve years. Only problem we have had is it chews drive belts, but problem has been solved by Barras by a two belt system. We. Have the 50hp engine which is over powered but fun on the rivers.

 

Martyn

Get the BMC rebuilt. A share boat I was part of has had this done recently and it is a great success and cost effective.

Thats not a bad idea either.

[cuthound]

When I had a share in Honeystreet we replaced the 13,000 hour old BMC with a Beta 43.

 

ABC at Gayton did the work for £7,000 and it transformed the boat, although they had to reinstate the high-level coolant fill pipe to prevent the horizontal calorifier from getting airlocked.

[Bee]

If I was having a new boat I would have a Japanese engine, preferably Kubota (Beta and others) but in your case I would repair or rebuild the BMC, I have had a 1.5 and 2.5 in boats and they are perfectly good and long lived engines. As Fade to Scarlet says just unbolt all the bits and then re assemble, including the expensive gearbox and the engine bearers, if your boat was a car you wouldn't think of putting in an engine of a different make.

[Peter Thornton]

When I had a share in Honeystreet we replaced the 13,000 hour old BMC with a Beta 43.

ABC at Gayton did the work for £7,000 and it transformed the boat, although they had to reinstate the high-level coolant fill pipe to prevent the horizontal calorifier from getting airlocked.

Hi Cuthound

Was this a recent swap, sounds a good price?

Interested in how it "transformed the boat"? And how the characteristics are different from the BMC?

 

Thanks

[alan_fincher]

Well I have always been highly "pro BMC", but wonder whether it is actually a good idea in this case.

 

I think it has been some time since you can buy a new Turkish BMC, so I would assume your options in sticking with BMC are either rebuild existing, or buy a "reconditioned"/"rebuilt" one.

 

One hears so much conflicting opinion on the quality and longevity of the latter, and I really don't know how you go about knowing you are buying something closely equivalent to a new engine.

 

Rebuilding existing may bean option, but obviously again you need to be confident of those doing the work.

 

How long do you reasonably want a share boat engine-less? A period of downtime that might be acceptable with a one owner boat may have far more impact on use if the boat is shared, and normally in use for much of the year.

Obviously I don't know the full story, but in your case, even though I'm pro BMC, I might well put in a Beta just to get a quicker turnaround, and to know the engine is truly new.

Get the BMC rebuilt. A share boat I was part of has had this done recently and it is a great success and cost effective.

 

Out of interest, how long from start to finish?

[magnetman]

Betamarine do good power units - a friend just ordered a Beta 50 was about £6600 excl installation.

 

For a Nb the 43 is ideal.

I put a new Beta 90 in my barge in 2012 so am not entirely unbiased !

[Peter Thornton]

 

How long do you reasonably want a share boat engine-less? A period of downtime that might be acceptable with a one owner boat may have far more impact on use if the boat is shared, and normally in use for much of the year.

Obviously I don't know the full story, but in your case, even though I'm pro BMC, I might well put in a Beta just to get a quicker turnaround, and to know the engine is truly new.

 

 

We're hoping that the work can be done over the Winter period, so the time taken to replace isn't a big issue.

The cost is relevant, although it's divided by ten and reliability is also crucial. Our current breakdown has wrecked one Summer holiday.

 

I'm interested in hearing about the difference in operation between, say, a Beta 43 and a BMC engine

[Midnight]

I would get the BMC overhauled as it's just easier and cheaper. They are doddle to work on and the parts are readily available. Otherwise Beta 43

[Guest]

Interesting that nobody has yet mention Isuzu....

 

Going back to the OP though I would be tempted to stick with 'what you know' and like has been suggested get the BMC rebuilt as it will be as FTS suggested a nice easy swap. That is unless you are in a hurry which being a share boat (meaning someone perhaps loses out while the boat is out of use) this might be the case??? Answered in post #11

 

ed - I seem to recall being warned off a boat with a Nanni diesel on here when we were looking to buy because of the use of a (prone to failure) cam belt rather than chain, but my memory may be dodgy on that.

Edited August 12, 2016 by MJG

[alan_fincher]

I'm interested in hearing about the difference in operation between, say, a Beta 43 and a BMC engine

 

Though it saddens me to say it as a former BMC owner, depending on condition, you may tip rather less oil into a new Beta than an elderly BMC, and also you may find noise and vibration levels somewhat lower, (assuming good installation of the Beta).

 

Something like the Beta 43 might give a useful small increase in power, though you would need to make sure the prop was still well matched to engine and gearbox. Not essential, but may give extra reserves on rivers.

 

In terms of starting up, and getting underway, etc, I doubt you would find much difference. Arrangements for stopping may be subtly different. If you currently pull on a knob on the end of a cable to stop it, it may be that the Beta simply stops on the key.

 

Do you currently have a 1.5 or a 1.8 BMC?, and what gearbox has it?

Interesting that nobody has yet mention Isuzu....

 

Not sure it is sill easy to find a new marinised Isuzu, is it, since HMI stopped that as there main line of business.

 

Happy to be corrected if you can, though.

[bizzard]

In my opinion, Kubota, Isuzu, Yanmar, Mitsubishi are all excellent engines, nothing to choose between them for reliability.

[The Lockie]

If the cost split 10 ways then it should be about 7 to 8 hundred per share..why not make it 300 a share and put a service exchange rebuild in..Calcutt marina have been doing them for years. Swapped out our old 1.8 for one of theirs a few yeats ago then put 5000 hours on it before we sold the boat..never missed a beat..they put the new turkish heads on all their tebuilds if I remember correctly..a new new diesel may be quieter but the parts can be pricey the bmc parts are readily available and cheap as chips compated to the likes of Vetus Isuzu ect..just my twopennyworth. But a narrowboat boesnt need 50HP engine or a 43HP for that matter..our 1.8 put out 35HP and managed the tidal Trent just fine

[bizzard]

The OP is probably used to the BMC driving a single moderately sized alternator, probably 50-75amp on split charge relay or change over switch. So a similar moderately sized alternator driven with a single belt system fitted to a Japanese engine would avoid having to upgrade the wiring and electricals to suit a high output or twin alternators and avoid all the multi V belt and pulley set up, which in my opinion is a good thing.

[Guest]

Not sure it is sill easy to find a new marinised Isuzu, is it, since HMI stopped that as there main line of business.

 

Happy to be corrected if you can, though.

 

Not sure I can TBH I just know the Isuzu 42 in 'The Dog House' was a superb unit, and (one broken alternator bracket aside) never missed a beat in the five years we had the boat, it was sort of the one thing I always felt I could rely on not to let us down. It also propelled the boat very nicely on rivers.

 

OK five years isn't long I realise that but I haven't always been able to say the same about engines in cars I have had!

[bizzard]

 

Not sure I can TBH I just know the Isuzu 42 in 'The Dog House' was a superb unit, and (one broken alternator bracket aside) never missed a beat in the five years we had the boat, it was sort of the one thing I always felt I could rely on not to let us down. It also propelled the boat very nicely on rivers.

 

OK five years isn't long I realise that but I haven't always been able to say the same about engines in cars I have had!

They are very good, I maintain several sizes of Isuzu here and never anything wrong, just straight forward servicing, as is general with the other Japanese engines.

[Cheshire cat]

Our shared boat had a BMC that died at 11000 hours. Abuse killed it if I'm honest. The cap at the end of the water header jacket split more than once and resulted in at least two seizures one of them on the Manchester Ship Canal. Remarkably the engine restarted once it had cooled down.

 

We replaced our BMC with a Nanni 2.2 43hp which is great but too big for the job. It only just fits in the engine bay and generated more heat than the cooling system could cope with. After the first season we had the skin tank enlarged. So far it has done 1300 hours and is showing little signs of wear. There is some slight smoking but it uses no oil so I am wondering if the injectors need servicing.

 

Most of the time it cruises along at 1100 - 1200 rpm which is a much more pleasant than the BMC used to provide at 1350 - 1500 rpm. There is far less vibration for some reason.

 

Nanni use the Kubota base units same as Beta. I would buy another but a smaller one next time.

 

The engine exchange was done over the winter at Calcutt and did require the engine bearers to be modified. They would probably accept your old engine as a trade in because they do remanufacture them.

[churchward]

In theory a rebuilt BMC should be as good as a knew engine but it all depends on who does it.

 

The Japenses engines of any type are good and will last a long time, good for servicing which is important in a share boat that puts many hours on an engine a year.

 

I like Beta engines myself but wonder why it is assumed that a Beta 43 is the obvious replacement. Why not have a Beta 38 which is a much closure match for the power of the BMC so should match the prop setup and should also suit the cooling requirements of the BMC and so hopefully the skin tank fitted. The B38 also has the possible advantage of being lighter than the B43.

Edited August 12, 2016 by churchward

[Peter Thornton]

I think the problem we see with the BMC is that you never know who's rebuilt the engine and where the parts have come from. Assuming an exchange.

We change engineering bases every year or so so don't get the continuity of service that would allow us to trust someone to rebuild ours when we might be 100 miles away when it gives trouble. I think it's a bit like the old British motorcycles. They were great when properly built and looked after. But if you wanted to get on something that would just run and run then you bought Japanese.

Similarly, the Land Rover used to rule Africa, now it's the Toyota.

If anyone knows anywhere that can rebuild a BMC to a guaranteed high specification then I'd be pleased to hear .........

And PM me if the converse applies!

[lostnortherner]

We put a Beta 43 in Kinver about 3 years ago. It cost about £7k for the job, and we managed to sell the scrap BMC back to Calcutt for a few hundred (I forget how much). Solved all our breakdowns and engine issues in one lump.

We do find it gets a bit hot flogging along rivers if you like to give it some, I suspect the skin tank is not really big enough, but it's not a problem really.

ABC at Alvechurch did it. There was about a month lead time, as Beta made engine mounts for us to fit the old BMC mountings.

[David Schweizer]

In theory a rebuilt BMC should be as good as a knew engine but it all depends on who does it.

 

The Japenses engines of any type are good and will last a long time, good for servicing which is important in a share boat that puts many hours on an engine a year.

 

I like Beta engines myself but wonder why it is assumed that a Beta 43 is the obvious replacement. Why not have a Beta 38 which is a much closure match for the power of the BMC so should match the prop setup and should also suit the cooling requirements of the BMC and so hopefully the skin tank fitted. The B38 also has the possible advantage of being lighter than the B43.

 

It certainly does, it also depends on how much work is actually done, as some (so called) re-builds are little more than refurbishments.

 

The BMC 1.5 in our boat had done more than 20,000 hours and was decidedly tired, we had it re-built by Jonathon Hewitt at Union Canal Carriers in Braunston, and he did a first class job, for a very reasonable price. Everything that moved was either re-bored, re-ground, or replaced. It took quite a while, but the wait was worth it, he kept us informed about progress and we even got a DVD showing each stage of the re-build.

[Cheshire cat]

Interesting that Kinver is undercooled because she is a Reeves shell. The majority of the Pat Buckle shelled boats that had an engine upgrade also had to have a cooling upgrade at a cost of around £800 if I remember correctly. It's still the same boat that is being pushed along so maybe the BMC is more efficient. I know the Nanni we have uses more fuel, about 20% more even though I use fewer revs.

 

I agree with David and others regarding recon. Some of the early Ownerships boats went down the recon route and found they started having problems after four or five years. You really do need to know it was done by an engineer rather than someone with an eye on their profit margin.