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Boat Security and Immobilisers (Split from Stolen Boat)


Flyboy

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Always surprises me that even recently made boats are secured using a hasp and staple!

Me too. As Joe said above, a cordless angle grinder will make short work of one of those or most of the padlocks used to secure them. A few seconds of an angle grinder's song is unlikely to attract much attention, even if there's anyone around to hear it. Nothing says "unoccupied" quite like an external padlock either.

 

Having said all that, if Narrowboat theft was less unusual, we would be less inclined to buy poorly secured boats and boat builders might put more effort into security.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if there were no criminals? They should lock 'em up! ;)

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Having said all that, if Narrowboat theft was less unusual, we would be less inclined to buy poorly secured boats and boat builders might put more effort into security.

 

Although theft of the boat is rare, theft from the boat I think is quite common.

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Given that the boat stolen was fitted with a Yale lock I'm not sure the type of lock makes much difference!

 

Cheers

Gareth

Yale isnt a type of lock, but when people say yale they usually mean the night latch type of lock which is poor.

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Although theft of the boat is rare, theft from the boat I think is quite common.

Which is why I don't secure my boat with a padlock and always moor next to someone with a padlock! ;)

 

I'm not being smug - I've also got big windows instead of portholes... but that's what marriage does for you! :D

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i always found it odd that boats are secured with "Im not at home rob me" padlocks, when I bought ours from some CC'ers it was exactly the same on rear doors, however the front doors secured from inside with Enfield D613 garage door bolts which can be key operated from inside or outside. I put one on the stern doors and it pops into the sliding hatch. I replaced all that the same time and got them keyed alike. I left the padlock metal bits on as they were welded on by boat builders.

 

They are by no means infalliable as although you cannot get to the lock there are some weaknesses whcih I wont disclose on here.

Edited by widebeamboy
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Yale isnt a type of lock, but when people say yale they usually mean the night latch type of lock which is poor.

Even if fitted with a deadlock they aren't that hard....have a Google at how easy it is to snap a Eurolock which is by far the most common type of lock fitted to houses....you can buy uprated eurolock barrels but their not cheap...I've done it to my mothers house but you can only do so much unless you want to live in a prison....

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

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Why do the boats that moor in marinas have to secure their boats more. They are already paying via their mooring fees for security which in this case did nothing to prevent the theft.

No they are not. They are paying their mooring fees for a mooring. I'm pretty sure any marina's terms and conditions will exclude any liability for damage, theft of or from boats etc.

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A 'professional' thief or burglar will be in and out quickly and do relatively little damage. We need to deter the juvenile delinquents who will enter a boat for a laugh and then vandalise it. So a certain level of security is good but there's no point building Fort Knox. I have a PIR that will text me which could be useful if I was fairly close by.

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Back to immobilisation... electric stops aren't going to be that useful for those of us who have older engines that don't have that sort of sophistication. Personally, I do have another idea, but not sure it would be a good idea to post it. But if anyone has any really good ideas that haven't been mentioned - and can describe them in such a way that any potential thief doesn't immediately know how to get round them - please add them.

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Back to immobilisation... electric stops aren't going to be that useful for those of us who have older engines that don't have that sort of sophistication.

You could add some sort of mechanical lock which secures the fuel rod in the stop position. It may not stop the thief with a battery powered angle grinder, but it will be an additional deterrent.

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/y

No they are not. They are paying their mooring fees for a mooring. I'm pretty sure any marina's terms and conditions will exclude any liability for damage, theft of or from boats etc.

 

What I meant is "they are paying for the current security installed indirectly via their mooring fees"

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Why do the boats that moor in marinas have to secure their boats more. They are already paying via their mooring fees for security which in this case did nothing to prevent the theft.

Having moored in both a Marina (x2) and on a CRT on line mooring I can say with some degree of confidence that marina security in general is much better than that provided on the latter, and the price differential is not that huge in most, to even none existent in some areas.

 

So in fact you could ask the question as to why CRT don't do more security wise for their on line moorings given boaters are paying much the same as they would do to moor in a more secure Marina.

 

(Of course there are practical difficulties when the on line mooring is on the tow path side I realise that.)

 

We were lucky enough to find an offside gated on line mooring ran by CRT but these seem very unusual. Even when you see them they sometimes are secured with a CRT watermate key, just what is the point in that? The key for ours was 'bespoke' and not issued to people who didn't moor there.

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Even if fitted with a deadlock they aren't that hard....have a Google at how easy it is to snap a Eurolock which is by far the most common type of lock fitted to houses....you can buy uprated eurolock barrels but their not cheap...I've done it to my mothers house but you can only do so much unless you want to live in a prison....

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Most houses I've seen tend to have a mortise lock.

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Physical security is a great deterrent for opportunists. For targetted attacks (like the recent thefts) it's a time delay. If you've got a boat that's attack proof for 5mins, you've done a bloody good job of your security imho. I recommend a visit to Bosnianbill on YouTube if you're interested in lock security or starting lock picking as a hobby. Look up 'Bump Keys' if you want to see how easy it it to get into bad locks.

 

Noisy alarms with simple electronics, you don't need anything too fancy, it's more important that they're a pain in the arse (E.g 'Alarm + Timer = AGHHHH'). I was going to ask if there were any other electronics enthusiasts on the site? This would be a fun Arduino/PIC project to share with the forum.

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Physical security is a great deterrent for opportunists. For targetted attacks (like the recent thefts) it's a time delay. If you've got a boat that's attack proof for 5mins, you've done a bloody good job of your security imho. I recommend a visit to Bosnianbill on YouTube if you're interested in lock security or starting lock picking as a hobby. Look up 'Bump Keys' if you want to see how easy it it to get into bad locks.

 

Noisy alarms with simple electronics, you don't need anything too fancy, it's more important that they're a pain in the arse (E.g 'Alarm + Timer = AGHHHH'). I was going to ask if there were any other electronics enthusiasts on the site? This would be a fun Arduino/PIC project to share with the forum.

 

Welcome to the forum. Manuel Hung - I like the name.

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Most houses I've seen tend to have a mortise lock.

Really? Most modern upvc doors are eurolocks...even with multipoint locking the weak point is the eurolocks. Have a look down most uk streets. For such a naff design they are very popular!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

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Really? Most modern upvc doors are eurolocks...even with multipoint locking the weak point is the eurolocks. Have a look down most uk streets. For such a naff design they are very popular!

Cheers

Gareth

At the bottom end of the Euro locks market, the lock barrels are very cheap. Cheap means that's what most folks have and cheap also means easily defeated by bumping, snapping, etc. That's where the naff design you cite resides. YouTube has a number of videos both highlighting the problem and explaining how to do it for burglars.

 

However, like most locks, if you are prepared to pay more, you can fit ones with very much increased resistance to attack. It's a very easy job to change them too. Strange that insurance companies usually want British Standard 5 lever locks in wooden doors, but appear to accept multipoint locking without a thought for the lock itself.

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Really? Most modern upvc doors are eurolocks...even with multipoint locking the weak point is the eurolocks. Have a look down most uk streets. For such a naff design they are very popular!

Cheers

Gareth

Most houses still have wooden doors, it's only really recent builds that have PVC and even then the Eurolock issue was highly publised that many will have now been changed for the nonvunrable type. Looking down a street you can't tell if it's a vulnerable euro lock or not, where from a distance I can easily see a vulnerable hasp and staple with a cheap lock. Edited by Robbo
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I still don't understand your point, and you have further added to my lack of understanding with that.

 

You made a bold statement about the value of cars and caravans versus the value of a Narrowboat but yet you seem unable to clarify what exactly you mean.

 

I simply asked you to do that but fair enough if you cannot.

Well, you have asked for it, so here you are. I don't think your questioning has helped or advanced the debate.

 

If you look back, you will see that I was responding to MaxWelly's post, where he was suggesting that cars and caravans are stolen much more often than narrowboats, and that therefore the theft of a couple of narrowboats in a year was not significant. My response was that the cost of narrowboats is higher than that of cars or caravans, implying that a narrowboat theft was likely to be more financially damaging to the owner than a car or caravan theft.

 

As for quantifying it, I would firstly invite you to provide evidence to show that my statement is incorrect. I am familiar with prices of new and second hand narrowboats, through study over many years of articles and advertisements in canal magazines. I know a fair amount abut car prices from similar studies. I know least about caravans, but had a rough idea before making my post. Since your challenge to my "bold statement" I've had a look online, and my opinion is confirmed. Of course, there can be further debate about what type of average I may have meant......but this has got tedious enough.

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Well, you have asked for it, so here you are. I don't think your questioning has helped or advanced the debate.

 

If you look back, you will see that I was responding to MaxWelly's post, where he was suggesting that cars and caravans are stolen much more often than narrowboats, and that therefore the theft of a couple of narrowboats in a year was not significant. My response was that the cost of narrowboats is higher than that of cars or caravans, implying that a narrowboat theft was likely to be more financially damaging to the owner than a car or caravan theft.

 

As for quantifying it, I would firstly invite you to provide evidence to show that my statement is incorrect. I am familiar with prices of new and second hand narrowboats, through study over many years of articles and advertisements in canal magazines. I know a fair amount abut car prices from similar studies. I know least about caravans, but had a rough idea before making my post. Since your challenge to my "bold statement" I've had a look online, and my opinion is confirmed. Of course, there can be further debate about what type of average I may have meant......but this has got tedious enough.

A lot of cars are worth more than a lot of Narrowboats! A decent upmarket car today costs more than the majority of Narrowboats on Apolloduck!

 

The only difference is that a 40k Narrowboat will have little or no security, where a 40k car will have the latest security (which is why most target the keys and not the car)

Edited by Robbo
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