Water Between overplating

[SailorMeg]

I bought a canal boat about six months go, it is a 50ft rose cruiser stern canal boat, ex hire and has been extremely neglected over the years. Previously has been over plated. It has been surveyed and the surveyors are extremely happy with the thickness of the steel. Have had welding done, and have put a lot of love and energy into restoring this boat into a live aboard. Really need some help and advice to help me get to the finish line on this project.

 

Whilst Grinding out and de-rusting my bilges inside the cabin of the boat i exposed two small holes of the old steel. Unfortunately the boat was flooded whilst in dry dock lol, and the hulls must have filled with water and now there is water trapped in-between the plates of steel on both the starboard and port sides plus the bottom. The boat is now on hardstanding, out of water but there is still water coming into the cab. When I jump up and down inside the boat I can hear the water sloshing around. The water has not been in there more than two months, but I am worried this may cause serious problems. Is this is a case of drilling into the gap and extracting the water or worse case scenario over plating again.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

 

Thank you in advance,

 

T.

 

[Drayke]

I bought a canal boat about six months go, it is a 50ft rose cruiser stern canal boat, ex hire and has been extremely neglected over the years. Previously has been over plated. It has been surveyed and the surveyors are extremely happy with the thickness of the steel. Have had welding done, and have put a lot of love and energy into restoring this boat into a live aboard. Really need some help and advice to help me get to the finish line on this project.

 

Whilst Grinding out and de-rusting my bilges inside the cabin of the boat i exposed two small holes of the old steel. Unfortunately the boat was flooded whilst in dry dock lol, and the hulls must have filled with water and now there is water trapped in-between the plates of steel on both the starboard and port sides plus the bottom. The boat is now on hardstanding, out of water but there is still water coming into the cab. When I jump up and down inside the boat I can hear the water sloshing around. The water has not been in there more than two months, but I am worried this may cause serious problems. Is this is a case of drilling into the gap and extracting the water or worse case scenario over plating again.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

 

Thank you in advance,

 

T.

 

Have you thought about jacking the front of the boat up so that the water runs to the back and pump it out, then use a large dehumidifier to finish the job.

If it’s on hard standing and water is still getting in, then you need then to find out how this is happening and sort it out before trying to empty the bilge.

Alternatively as it’s on hard standing you could drill some holes in the over plating and allow the water to run out, then have the holes welded up then use the dehumidifier.

[boathunter]

Are you saying water has got between the original hull and the overplating from the inside?

[Tiggs]

"Whilst Grinding out and de-rusting my bilges inside the cabin of the boat i exposed two small holes of the old steel. Unfortunately the boat was flooded whilst in dry dock lol, and the hulls must have filled with water and now there is water trapped in-between the plates of steel on both the starboard and port sides plus the bottom."

 

Don't get this.

[MtB]

"Whilst Grinding out and de-rusting my bilges inside the cabin of the boat i exposed two small holes of the old steel. Unfortunately the boat was flooded whilst in dry dock lol, and the hulls must have filled with water and now there is water trapped in-between the plates of steel on both the starboard and port sides plus the bottom."

 

Don't get this.

 

 

Nor me.

[Tiggs]

Anyway, if you have water between the overplating and the original bottom then it was probably done badly.

[ditchcrawler]

The way I read it was that the boat got filled with water somehow while in a dry dock, ie. sunk, so if that is the case it would be easy for water to get between the plates

[Tiggs]

The way I read it was that the boat got filled with water somehow while in a dry dock, ie. sunk, so if that is the case it would be easy for water to get between the plates

Not if it were done properly, it's supposed to be sealed so water can't get in, but you are probably correct in that that is how it got in.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Tiggs

[Alan de Enfield]

That's the difference between overplating and re-bottoming.

 

You know where you are with a new bottom, overplating is always an unknown quality.

[keith.]

I read it as sound outer overplating but a couple of holes made by grinding from the inside in the original hull. Then I suspect a failure of the water tank and the hull filled with water allowing it to enter the two holes and get between the original hull and the overplating.

 

I think that the water has to be given an escape route so drilling a hole(s) at the lowest point would be necessary and then venting the space with an airline. Then finally making good all the holes in both original hull and overplating. The only problem is ensuring not drilling through both overplate and original hull!!

[Neil2]

I don't think just drilling holes in the overplate is going to do it. If, as is the norm, the base is one sheet just welded round the edges then you could carefully make a big-ish hole at each end of the inner plate and a combination of extracting and blasting air through it ought to get all the moisture out. You need an extraction machine with a big air movement capacity such as carpet cleaners use. When I was in the flood damage business I did a job like this on a boat that had flooded it's bilge which is not quite the same thing, but if the void is so big you can hear water sloshing about, it's just like have a very shallow bilge. A local carpet cleaning contractor or a company such as Rainbow International would have the right equipment though it might not be cheap.

 

 

[SailorMeg]

Hello everyone,

 

I wrote this topic and am writing now for my neighbour (we both have narrowboats currently on hardstanding) who is having these issues, so I will try and reply as best as I can.

 

As I understand it, the boat was over plated before he bought it. He has had it surveyed and the surveyor is very happy with the thickness of the steel and quality of the over plating.

 

Whilst waiting to be lifted out and go on hard standing (our boatyard like to take their time) he got a slot in a dry dock, took it and started blacking etc. as he is on a tight schedule to get this boat finished and move in. The boat had a sea toilet (don't ask! We don't know either) and this was removed during this time, leaving holes in both of the plates of steel? As I am imagining anyway. Whilst in the dry dock the gates failed (wooden and old on a river rather than canal) and the boat sunk, river water came in through the exposed old sea toilet holes. These Holes where temporarily bunged up and after the gates were fixed and the dock drained he used a wet vac to remove the water from the gap as much as possible and then had welding done to several areas of the boat, the old sea toilet holes, a new deck, hatches, doors etc. Obviously wet vaccing the exposed gap has not successfully removed all the water and some is still trapped in between the over plated and the old steel hull.

 

He has had an incredibly stressful six months with this boat so far and is quite concerned about the water trapped inside. What he wants to know is wether the water can damage both but particularly the outer layer of steel and what the best and most painless way to remove it would be.

 

Hope this clears this up

 

Thanks for your help

 

Megan and T

[SailorMeg]

Have you thought about jacking the front of the boat up so that the water runs to the back and pump it out, then use a large dehumidifier to finish the job.

If it’s on hard standing and water is still getting in, then you need then to find out how this is happening and sort it out before trying to empty the bilge.

Alternatively as it’s on hard standing you could drill some holes in the over plating and allow the water to run out, then have the holes welded up then use the dehumidifier.

water is not still coming in, it is trapped from the boat previously sinking/flooding.

 

Are you saying water has got between the original hull and the overplating from the inside?

yes.

 

I read it as sound outer overplating but a couple of holes made by grinding from the inside in the original hull. Then I suspect a failure of the water tank and the hull filled with water allowing it to enter the two holes and get between the original hull and the overplating.

 

I think that the water has to be given an escape route so drilling a hole(s) at the lowest point would be necessary and then venting the space with an airline. Then finally making good all the holes in both original hull and overplating. The only problem is ensuring not drilling through both overplate and original hull!!

this is what has been suggested by various boat people in our yard today, but obviously not the most ideal. Looking at this!

 

I don't think just drilling holes in the overplate is going to do it. If, as is the norm, the base is one sheet just welded round the edges then you could carefully make a big-ish hole at each end of the inner plate and a combination of extracting and blasting air through it ought to get all the moisture out. You need an extraction machine with a big air movement capacity such as carpet cleaners use. When I was in the flood damage business I did a job like this on a boat that had flooded it's bilge which is not quite the same thing, but if the void is so big you can hear water sloshing about, it's just like have a very shallow bilge. A local carpet cleaning contractor or a company such as Rainbow International would have the right equipment though it might not be cheap.

 

 

This is interesting, do you know what the name of the equipment would be that he would need? Do you mean to say that if he blasts air in through one end, and has something sucking the air/water out at the other end this might extract the water efficiently? That seems odd that someone had to employ someone to extract water from their bilges, whats wrong with a pump and a car sponge? haha!

 

Thank you all for your replies

[Rickent]

Would you not have a claim against the boatyard for cost of this work. Surely when you put a boat in dry dock it is not unreasonable to expect it to stay dry.

[Neil Smith]

They probably had to sign a disclaimer.

 

Neil

[Alan de Enfield]

Hello everyone,

 

I wrote this topic and am writing now for my neighbour (we both have narrowboats currently on hardstanding) who is having these issues, so I will try and reply as best as I can.

 

As I understand it, the boat was over plated before he bought it. He has had it surveyed and the surveyor is very happy with the thickness of the steel and quality of the over plating.

 

Whilst waiting to be lifted out and go on hard standing (our boatyard like to take their time) he got a slot in a dry dock, took it and started blacking etc. as he is on a tight schedule to get this boat finished and move in. The boat had a sea toilet (don't ask! We don't know either) and this was removed during this time, leaving holes in both of the plates of steel? As I am imagining anyway. Whilst in the dry dock the gates failed (wooden and old on a river rather than canal) and the boat sunk, river water came in through the exposed old sea toilet holes. These Holes where temporarily bunged up and after the gates were fixed and the dock drained he used a wet vac to remove the water from the gap as much as possible and then had welding done to several areas of the boat, the old sea toilet holes, a new deck, hatches, doors etc. Obviously wet vaccing the exposed gap has not successfully removed all the water and some is still trapped in between the over plated and the old steel hull.

 

He has had an incredibly stressful six months with this boat so far and is quite concerned about the water trapped inside. What he wants to know is wether the water can damage both but particularly the outer layer of steel and what the best and most painless way to remove it would be.

 

Hope this clears this up

 

Thanks for your help

 

Megan and T

 

I find it hard to accept that t surveyor did not did not notice / report on the fact that the boat did not meet the required standards for IW use (ie had a sea-toilet)

Or - maybe this is indicative of the surveyor used

[ditchcrawler]

 

I find it hard to accept that t surveyor did not did not notice / report on the fact that the boat did not meet the required standards for IW use (ie had a sea-toilet)

Or - maybe this is indicative of the surveyor used

Maybe he did which was why it was out of the water to weld up.

Edit

It is still acceptable to use sea toilets on some rivers, i am not sure where the OP is

Edited July 31, 2016 by ditchcrawler

[Stilllearning]

Maybe he did which was why it was out of the water to weld up.

Edit

It is still acceptable to use sea toilets on some rivers, i am not sure where the OP is

On the Medway I think, so possibly OK?

[SailorMeg]

The boat is on the medway, destination will be the grand union. So no sea toilet allowed. Sea toilet and flooding happened pre surveyor. Back to the point though, anyone got any serious ideas on the best, quickest and most reasonable way to remove water from in between the old hull and overplating?

[ditchcrawler]

If you don't want to drill holes to let it out I guess you could cut some holes in the original bottom inside the boat at the lowest point and dry as much water as possible then go over the bottom with a blowlamp to evaporate the damp

[Alan de Enfield]

 

It is still acceptable to use sea toilets on some rivers, i am not sure where the OP is

 

Yes it is ( we are on the Trent and it is allowed), however it is a BSS failure if there is no Pump-Out tank fitted with a working diverter valve (BSS section 9)

[Robbo]

The boat is on the medway, destination will be the grand union. So no sea toilet allowed. Sea toilet and flooding happened pre surveyor. Back to the point though, anyone got any serious ideas on the best, quickest and most reasonable way to remove water from in between the old hull and overplating?

In my non professional opinion I would use an air compressor to force some airflow inbetween the plates to dry it out. For long term it would be nice to get something like waxoyl inbetween the gap, but I don't know how this could be easily done to be effective in filling the whole gap.

[Robbo]

 

Yes it is ( we are on the Trent and it is allowed), however it is a BSS failure if there is no Pump-Out tank fitted with a working diverter valve (BSS section 9)

It says valve, doesn't need to be a diversion valve, just a valve to cut off the hull outlet so it can't be used.

[Neil2]

water is not still coming in, it is trapped from the boat previously sinking/flooding.

 

yes.

 

this is what has been suggested by various boat people in our yard today, but obviously not the most ideal. Looking at this!

 

This is interesting, do you know what the name of the equipment would be that he would need? Do you mean to say that if he blasts air in through one end, and has something sucking the air/water out at the other end this might extract the water efficiently? That seems odd that someone had to employ someone to extract water from their bilges, whats wrong with a pump and a car sponge? haha!

 

Thank you all for your replies

 

Sorry for my late reply, you would need to contact a company that does flood damage work, many independent carpet cleaners advertise this service as well. They have very powerful water extraction machines that are capable of moving huge volumes of air which is what you need to do in this case.

 

Without being on site it's difficult to advise further but the principle is creating an access for the hose at one end and maybe several inlets at the other.

 

I still don't know if it would work as it depends on the size/nature of the void between the plates.

 

Applying heat/hot air would help. I would also suggest injecting something into the void afterwards, but I would use Owatrol not Wayoyl. Owatrol is runny and will penetrate better I can't see how you could efficiently get Waxoyl to fill the entire void without drilling lots of holes. Having said that, maybe drilling lots of holes wouldn't be a bad idea but again how practical this is depends on how big the gap is between the plates.

[MtB]

I'd leave the water there. What harm can it do?

 

Oxygen is needed for it to cause rust so if the overplating is good, there won't be any refreshment of the air in the gap along with the water, so no rust of any significance will occur.

 

On the other hand, if there IS a pinhole somewhere that air can get in through, the water in the gap will evaporate away through the same pinhole.

 

Central heating systems have steel radiators fiilled with water and these don't generally rust through. It is however a Good Idea to add corrosion inhibitor to the circulating water, so rather than getting the water out from behind the overplating, how about injecting some central heating corrosion inhibitor before welding over the sea toilet hole?

 

 

 

(Edit to expand on a point.)

Edited August 1, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman