Rudder design to prevent getting caught up.

[the barnacle]

I was thinking - why dont rudders have a flat 12mm thick x 100 - 150mm horizontal plate welded across the top of the rudder - as drawn, - then if the rudder gets trapped between the gates it allows water to leave the lock,

 

it may also aid the flow of water down improving efficiancy rather than propultion been lost on the surface. the plate could be shaped even rounded so if it got caught between gates it might push the boat forward.

 

 

[IanM]

What, like this?

 

[Bod]

Ours has something similar, added as a foot hold to aid climbing out of the water, in the event of falling in.

 

Bod

[the barnacle]

spot on Ian, is this common on boats - i would of thought the advantages made it well worth having plus it would help stur up more sediment keeping the canal cleaner?

[zenataomm]

I like the idea of the spare propellor.

[Catnip King]

If you get caught then its to late anyway you need to be so quick at the paddles.

[Guest]

ed to remove superfluous post

Edited July 28, 2016 by MJG

[FadeToScarlet]

No need to change the rudder, just ensure there's the proper number and type of fenders to reach beyond the rudder and protect it.

 

One droopy button fender, with the rudder sticking behind it, isn't going to do much. Two tipcats and a button, for example, is better.

[Horace42]

Apart from stopping the rudder getting stuck in the gates, would it improve propulsion power and efficiency?

And why do rudders project beyond the back of the boat? Why can't they be entirely under the counter?

[magnetman]

Its almost impossible to get a rudder caught in the lock gates if you keep an eye on the boat at all times.

 

OK I suppose someone might have a heart attack by the lock but this is rare.

 

Its an interesting design idea but I don't see the getting caught up bit as important myself.

Apart from stopping the rudder getting stuck in the gates, would it improve propulsion power and efficiency?

And why do rudders project beyond the back of the boat? Why can't they be entirely under the counter?

That's an interesting option. My barge (a modern boat built by pickwell and Arnold who also did narrow boats) has the rudder inside the profile of the stern - this is achieved by having a slight upswept stern rather than vertical like most narrow boats. It is doable with a narrow boat but would result in less internal space which in a boat already limited by its width could be quite a noticeable penalty.

[Sea Dog]

Its almost impossible to get a rudder caught in the lock gates if you keep an eye on the boat at all times.

 

Absolutely. Plus, whether you struggle to pay attention or not, it can't happen if you put your tiller over (having taken the precaution of ensuring the tiller bar isn't long enough foul the lock wall).

[magnetman]

Some boats have self centring rudders so would need the tiller tying off.

 

The key is keeping an eye on the boat.

 

The diagram in the op looks like a good design in that it adds rigidity to the rudder blade but that's about all I can see personally.

 

Some dutch barges have arrangements to reduce propeller ventilation and improve propulsion efficiency but generally they are fixed to the hull rather than the rudder. There are some technical rudder designs about as well.

 

Typo

Edited August 12, 2016 by magnetman

[Ray T]

Its almost impossible to get a rudder caught in the lock gates if you keep an eye on the boat at all times.

 

OK I suppose someone might have a heart attack by the lock but this is rare.

 

Its an interesting design idea but I don't see the getting caught up bit as important myself.

 

That's an interesting option. My barge (a modern boat built by pickwell and Arnold who also did narrow boats) has the rudder inside the profile of the stern - this is achieved by having a slight upswept stern rather than vertical like most narrow boats. It is doable with a narrow boat but would result in less internal space which in a boat already limited by its width could be quite a noticeable penalty.

 

I suppose if "you" had a stern like Whitefield it may work?

 

 

 

 

 

Similar to a slipper stern:

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Ray T

[Jrtm]

Absolutely. Plus, whether you struggle to pay attention or not, it can't happen if you put your tiller over (having taken the precaution of ensuring the tiller bar isn't long enough foul the lock wall).

Or just push it over and remove the bar in locks.

Even with boating all my life with 70 foot boats including buttys ive not once had this problem every time just pust tiller over take bar off. Set lock go set next one come back. As long as i know its staying forward when i leave its fine just make sure the gates a pretty much shut or the gate you put your rudder to is. No good if the gate you put the rudder at is half open as it will try to catch it when it does shut.

I dont know how people manage to do this you have more chance of the bow getting hooked than the back but even then i use use a fender with a week link in it so if it does it just brakes it.

[b0atman]

My fins work ok stop lots of water thrust going above surface level We fitted lots when at Meadow Farm marina .Back in the good days.

[Neil Smith]

My rudder also has plates on both sides, always wondered what purpose they play apart from strength and for stepping on if you fall in.

 

Neil

[magnetman]

 

I suppose if "you" had a stern like Whitefield it may work?

 

boat update 059.jpg

 

boat update 062.jpg

 

Similar to a slipper stern:

 

The other boat is horrid but I wouldn't mind owning the boat in the last picture Edited August 13, 2016 by magnetman

[Richard T]

Tyto's has a large Skegness which extends to nearly the full length of the rudder. It was put on to stop hirers lifting the rudder out of its socket on cills. I'll post a picture later.

[Catnip King]

Or just push it over and remove the bar in locks.

Even with boating all my life with 70 foot boats including buttys ive not once had this problem every time just pust tiller over take bar off. Set lock go set next one come back. As long as i know its staying forward when i leave its fine just make sure the gates a pretty much shut or the gate you put your rudder to is. No good if the gate you put the rudder at is half open as it will try to catch it when it does shut.

I dont know how people manage to do this you have more chance of the bow getting hooked than the back but even then i use use a fender with a week link in it so if it does it just brakes it.

Finally someone who talks sense.

[MHS]

Tyto's has a large Skegness which extends to nearly the full length of the rudder. It was put on to stop hirers lifting the rudder out of its socket on cills. I'll post a picture later.

I'm interested to see a boat with Skegness fitted. I personally prefer Whitby.

[magnetman]

Ramsgate for me

[David Mack]

Ramsgate for me

Is that what's fitted to Tycho?

[Tam & Di]

Ramsgate for me

 

At last someone giving the steering device which holds the tillerbar its correct name - why do people now mostly refer to them as the swansea?

 

Tam

 

There was an obvious typo there. Obvious the Ramsgate is the thing the Talybont goes on to and which is connected to the Radnor for steering.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Tam & Di

[Richard T]

I'm interested to see a boat with Skegness fitted. I personally prefer Whitby.

I'm interested to see a boat with Skegness fitted. I personally prefer Whitby.

The joys of predictive text!!

[Richard T]

Now for a picture showing the Skegness on Tyto!!!

Pre blacking

Post blacking

You can see how substantial the skeg is. It does however get in the way occasionally when winding in a very tight spot and probably stops us from the short lock areas of the L&L as it makes our overall length a bit more than 62ft.